As salamu alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuh.

I would the opinions of my brothers, if there was to begin an Islamic State: 

1. Which country in the world would start with an Islamic State? Give reasons.

2. Who would follow them to expand the Islamic State? (second country to follow)

3. Do youse know any country at the moment thinking about changing to the Islamic State?

what do you mean by " if there was to begin an islamic state"??

i mean if a country was to convert to an islamic state like one of the muslim countries, if they were thinkin about it

The last Islamic State was the Ottoman Empire. the west went thruogh hell trying to defeat them and it took 600 yrs to do so, since now that they have achieved this goal, they will do anything in there power to not allow such threats to ever exist again. most muslim countries today are corrupt and look to every solution other then islam.

in my opinion if there is going to be islamic state it will come from a minority like the chechens, kashmiris or other african, middle eastern or central asian tribes.

but these countries success will depend on the stronger muslim countries who might decide to change there ways, might!

you can not be classified as an Islamic state by simply having 'Muslim' population. You must implement the Sharia fully with a Caliph. to be an Islamic state. Even Saudi is not an Islamic state

then you have a different definition of "islamic state" than the common one.

Thanks that makes sense. Another definition. 

But to put so much on a Caliph in order to legitimize an Islamic state sounds frugal. The more I think about this notion of super Caliph-Islamic state the more I feel pity for those who lack confidence in their ability to act and follow there religion as they know best. Faith comes from the inside, not by someone who you give power to. And to tell you what it is. Use your vote of confidence and in law if you must. If not someone will do it for you. Remember one of those God given rights is to practise your religion with no compulsion.  

and for most of the Islamic history the Caliphs weren't the religiouse leaders of the Caliphate nor they were religiouse themselvs.

having a Union between States which has a common Goal is achievable but as i said in another topic, a union such as the EU will do, not a Union with one leader type.

and dont forget that the early Islamic Caliphates were democratic and they had a parliment like government. so the democracy and union isn't new to the Islamic religion.

I am just curious, why does a new Islamic state has to follow exactly other previous empires in electing a caliph? It is not necessary in our religion to appoint a caliph for life. All what is necessary is to have a just Imam or ruler. No specification if it has to be a kingdom, republic, 4 years term, for life term...etc

So, according to my humble opinion, I think some existed Islamic states should work slowly on getting closer toward unification. The key word is unity. Ottomans were strong, but they didn't have to rule every single Muslim nation that existed that time. So, If we have Malaysia getting in unity with Indonesia, Brunai, they will create a mega south asian Islamic state with elected rulers (call them presidents) who will be under the public eyes and always have their balances checked.  That by itself a power. Same thing to regional unification.

Now, what makes a group of countries qualify for union? That is tough to answer. Similar economy? similar political system? ...etc

Selamat Sejahtera.......

cok gec quote :

"So, If we have Malaysia getting in unity with Indonesia, Brunai, they will create a mega south asian Islamic state with elected rulers (call them presidents) who will be under the public eyes and always have their balances checked"

Interesting... but hard to accept..... i know tht ur 'humble side' there.. is trying to come up with an example ... but seriously... my side here not so much to think tht kind of possibility to be happened... dont get me wrong.. it's not about racism or else... no no... tht issue is unrelated coz we are all malays.. Malaysia, Indonesia and Brunei....

but do u know tht Indonesia practice a law tht call as 'pancasila' where mix marriage between muslim and non-muslim can be accepted and... the children can choose which religion to be adopted based on their own preference... a very complicated democracy for me as a simple malaysian to accept...

bye the way... Islamic Empire.. there is a place in Indonesia name as Acheh which is trying to be apart from tht country to develop their own Islamic country... and South Thailand... most of the local are muslims... Bad things happened in South Thailand recently...  so sad...

terima kasih....

that is very good news about acheh, but recently they have been a big talk on the media though. it seems as soon as a muslim country makes claims or demands to live under islamic laws, they are quickly shown as very poor and dangerous people. but we have to expect that.

By the way is there any support from local muslim countries for the south thailanders? what kind of bad things r u talking about. plz explain

to answer question by ottoman_turk.... Well I have to look over some of newspaper articles for this....

Ottoman_Turk quote:

By the way is there any support from local muslim countries for the south thailanders? what kind of bad things r u talking about. plz explain

Last year, on 25 October 2004, 85 muslims were killed by the Thai army. It happened in Tak Bai, Narathiwat. In Ramadhan.. the government used terrorism as an excuse for them to kill those innoncent people..

Before that the same incident happened... in April 2004. where the muslims were killed during solat in Masjid Kerisik, Pattani. 112 people killed. Again... for the same reason....

malaysia government.. tried to protect those thai muslim refugees who run to our country for protection.. and tried to bring the issue to the 10th ASEAN conference... in order to show our country disagreement and to condemn on how bad the Thai's government handled the terrorism issues...

Unfortunately.... i cant show u the picture of the tragedy here...

p/s: sad to see tht those people were killed with no mercy and the place is where your ancestor came from

thank u very much cahaya, really appreciated it.

so sad indeed

tak ada masalah.. sama-sama

w aleykum selam ISLAMIC EMPIRE...

the state will start in the heart.. if muslims, put other stuff aside and just work on being muslims.. Islamic empier will start there...

I met Muslims from all over the planet, and I MEANT it.. from all over the place... they're not united enough to start an Islamic country, then how could they start an Empire.. and I wish I was/am wrong..

Why does any Islamic state have to exist? The middle east is full of different religion if anything we should seprate church from Government, we do not have to follow the western and european models, but we shoudl respect every ones religion and beliefs, a Muslim is one who abides by the will of God. We all have a covenant to God and to abide by his laws, and includes freedom of choice.

There should be no Caliphs, or Imams who appointed them? they are human and Flawed, as Only God Almight and his messengers (prophets) can lead us, we are all but humble servants of God.

Lets have a republic were everyone can be represented adn none left out. Let us Live in Harmony as brothers rather then enemies.

Rakhsh (im assuming ur muslim, forgive me if im rong) i understand your point but please have a good look at the situations the muslim countries are in. every single one of them or if not, the majority are in third world class.

look at our history, since when has the history of islam been in such a worser situation then what we are now. when we look at the difference between how we rule and how they ruled we see that they all wer successful becouse of the powerful islamic state that they lived in.

Lets have a republic were everyone can be represented adn none left out. Let us Live in Harmony as brothers rather then enemies.

this sounds very good, seriuosly it does but its definately not happening and im afraid it looks like it never will happen unless an islamic state will rise again. but america has made strategic occupations (iraq, afghanistan) in the islamic world which will definately prevent such a case.

huh?!

Prophet mohammed didnt unite Arabia by force not at the begining and not at the end. he stayed 13 years preaching people in macca and when the muslim population increased he travelled to madia who already became muslims and wellcomed him he didnt conquer madia.

then the rest of gaswas started for the protection of the religion and most of these battels were a last option ones at the point when his enemies decided to end them. also Yemen became muslim peacefully.

and after his death only a group of people in yemen and oman did revolt in not paying Zakah and what was called "kharaj" to the 1st Caliph AbuBaker then he launched an attack against them.

Umayyads didnt kill Caliph Ali, the Ummayad caiiphat's reagon hasn't begun yet when Caliph ali was Alive!

and voilence isn't the only lanugage we understand its the last option used. i assume by we you mean muslims.

about Muaweyah, he was put governor of syria by Caliph Umar, and he didnt kill Caliph Ali.

the people who assasinated Caliph Ali planned to assasinate Muaweyah at the same time after Al Fajr prayer, three men were sent to Ali and three to Muaweyah in Damascus.

the ones who went to assasin Caliph ali succeded and injured him so badly that he died 3 days later.

the ones who went to assasin Muaweyah didnt succeed and they were caught by Muaweyah's bodyguards. i think muaweyah was injured too but not deadly.

also i know most of the uniting happend through preaching...but take the capture of mecca for example, he marched with 10000 to mecca, although there was no fighting, meccans surrendered primarily because of the overwhelming strength.

hz muhammed and the meccans made a peace treaty that promised that for 10 years none would attack each other and the muslims wer allowed to enter mecca without being harmed ad vica versa. WHEN THE MECCANS BROKE THIS TRUCE THEN AND ONLY THEN DID THE MUSLIMS CONQUEOR MECCA. which was inevitable becoz the capture of mecca was written in the koran way before it was conquored, just another miracle of our holy book.

and thats what i mean...that if theres a strong enough country, other countries will realize wats best for them and join....doesnt necessarily have to be violent.

i dont no why but u seem to have a bad view of muslims being violent and aggressive. this is propaganda used by the west, but it seems our muslims also believe it due to lack of knowledge i guess (i assumed ur muslim, if not i appologise). war is the last ever option in our book.

"fight in the way of allah, against those who fight against you, ...but if they stop let there be no more war, for ALLAH NEVER LOVES THE STARTER OF WARS"

With all respect for other opinions stated above, I am against any Islamic State per se, but will support a democratic secular state be it a constitutional monarchy or republic who's sources of law are from different countries as well as Islamic law adaptable to a modern country.

I concur, the duty of the emir or khalifa(caliph) is to simply dispense with affairs of the state and to not go against the rulings of Islam and were as liable and subject to appearance in the Law Court as anyone else.

When good persons became caliphs and attained the power of that office, they used it to bring about prosperity justice and freedom. But the same power when wielded by a tyrannical caliph caused the opposite to happen.

I disagree, Muslims are violent. It's enough to remember the cartoon crisis! It's a fact.. I do agree with you however that the religion of Islam is peaceful. Unfortunately, I can't say the same about Muslims (I'm a Muslim and Turk myself by the way).

Cheers

We already have two Islamic States Iran and Saudi Arabia which are paradox in our modern time. My definition of an Isalmic State is that the majority of its citizens are Moslems, But its constitution mus declare that it is a secular state with separation  of powers and protection of its minorities rights of relgion ,property and free speech.Freedom of the press and all other aspects of true democracy.

I dont agree about uniting the Islamic states by force like super goat said.

I think that giving it some time the islamic countries could form thier own type of EU.  You guys might laugh at that but i honestly think it is a possibility.