Why Greeks dont request to be called Hel
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Scholarly Pursuits
Forum Name: Linguistics
Forum Discription: Discuss linguistics: the study of languages
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3614
Printed Date: 13-May-2024 at 09:11
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Topic: Why Greeks dont request to be called Hel
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Subject: Why Greeks dont request to be called Hel
Date Posted: 26-May-2005 at 04:09
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For a long time Iranians were known as Persians especially in the west but 70 years ago in these days we requested to be called Iranians (as we call ourselves) instead of Persians and our country Iran instead of Persia, why Greeks don't request it? and also other nations who are called with different names? ------------- 
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Replies:
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 26-May-2005 at 05:20
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http://www.biologydaily.com/biology/Hellenes - http://www.biologydaily.com/biology/Hellenes : According to Thucydides, Hellenes were the people of Hellas. Greek mythology states that they were named after Hellen. A more scientific approach considers this an aitiological myth, placing the origin of the name in Epirus, the land of the Dorians, where people were called Selloi or Helloi. The etymology of the term is *sedlnes, meaning "settlers" (from the PIE root *sed, "to sit"). The spread of the worship of Zeus in the rest of Greece (based in Dodoni), the Dorian tendency to form amfictionies and the increasing popularity of the Delphic religion caused the name to refer to all people today known as Greeks (that name having come from the Graikoi people who were, according to Aristotle, the inhabitants of a city in Boeotia named Graia, before the deluge of Deucalion). As I said http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=929 - here , there are some similarites between Greeks and Gilakis, the word Giloi in Gilaki language (and also Persian) means Soil / Clay, and as you know the words Soil (Solum in Latin) and Seat (Solium in Latin) have the same root, so I think both Greek and Hellen mean "Settler". -------------
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Posted By: Yiannis
Date Posted: 26-May-2005 at 05:23
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Because it doesn't really matter! I mean, at least I don't mind and changing people's habits, not to mention vocabulary is too difficult, so you can continue calling us Greeks
------------- The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin |
Posted By: BirTane
Date Posted: 26-May-2005 at 05:43
| When someone is calling me Greek I am always correct him. In my work and my writtings I always use the words "Hellen" and "Helenic". I dont like very much to be called as Greek but I dont get angry neither. When someone is calling me Yunan or Yunanli, I dont mind at all, because I m Yunanli, I originate (a part f me) from the Yunan tribe of Hellenes (Iones) and since for the Anatolian people Yunan = Hellens I dont care much. But I m trying to change it and correct people. Iones were part of the Hellens. Greeks were part of the Hellenes. Macedonias, Athinians, Lakedemones, Cretans, Molossi, Leleges, Kares and many other tribes constituted the nation of the Hellenes. We the Hellenes we call the Frenchs as Galli and their country as Gallia. And we do the same for many other people and countries, which is not totally correct. |
Posted By: BirTane
Date Posted: 26-May-2005 at 05:46
| And something else....we dont request because nations have the right to call us as they want (always within some limits) ....but the last at least 10 years a silent campaign started for changing the name. Officially my country and state use the name Hellas and not Greece... |
Posted By: Spartakus
Date Posted: 26-May-2005 at 06:56
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Why,it really does not matter.Most Hellens have used to it and so the goverment.The important things is for foreign people to know that the name Hellas corresponds to Greece. ------------- "There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. " --- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996) |
Posted By: Homer MakeDonski
Date Posted: 26-May-2005 at 17:25
wow even in modern Macedonian language settler's have e a meaning of naseleni and the verb sed for to sit is sedi what is as my little silly words meaning theory based on word deviations have to explain via dulalistic for X-K's Helleni Kselleni Question I have ask myself was whart kind of ... History does give an evidence of kind of out side people or incoming triebes at Balkanian Peninsula or simply arrivels at foreign to them territhories Another view could be make by logic of hronological issues If someone is in settlers position first of all must to make some moving Move from one to another place in my Macedonian language on move have the meaning of selli se If we try to reach the past we could note that were a small number of different triebs what have had sttle down and around at the area what afrer had been named as Hellas Hronologicly would be firstly is on move - selli secondly -to take a sit or sedi Some very close to my modern language PIE roots |
Posted By: Styrbiorn
Date Posted: 26-May-2005 at 17:49
Many IE languages have the same word (or a derivation thereof) for 'to sit', including English, Scandinavian, German and as you showed apparently some Slavic languages too. And please don't use italics, makes it hard to read. |
Posted By: dorian
Date Posted: 26-May-2005 at 17:54
| I don't have any problem to be called Greek. I don't know what's the problem with this. A great percentage of Greeks don't like it. During the revolution against the Turks the name Graikos was widely used amongst the Greeks. I like both Greece and Hellas, Greeks and Hellenes. |
Posted By: Homer MakeDonski
Date Posted: 26-May-2005 at 18:58
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Why this word as possible root for pointed meaning Explaination via comparing could be as follow When today someone will move from his motherland into Usa or other English speak countries those ones must to faced a big *Aborigine eyes what will witness the "move in situation" and using their own English language shell make a statement as settlers immigrant Maybe something simmilar had happent one up one a time back in *Macedonian Paninsula , where my father fathers as native residents had withessed the times when move in and settling situations happent ,what been memorised via the word helleni meaning settlers or immigrant what had colonised the areas what they reached Hellens or foreners have had settled or established and stable in one's residence or life style Life stile of Paterism and A form of social organization in which a male is the family head and title is traced through the male line instead of previous one Styrbiorn italics will be no more |
Posted By: Homer MakeDonski
Date Posted: 26-May-2005 at 19:10
if someone have more than one name than why should take care about it's naming Hellens Romaioi Greeks No one name have root in their native mother thounge language But persons with more names usually does not have real one nations with more then one should be named as nameless nation |
Posted By: Yiannis
Date Posted: 27-May-2005 at 03:20
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Actually the first and third do have, it's just that you lack the basic inteligence to comprehend it... So far your whole contribution to this forum has been to (try to) insult Greece or mindlessly interfere in (more or less) serious discussions and post nonsense. I'd advise you (once again) to read and adhere to the forum rules, since you're violationg them very often and that can have grave consequences for your presence in this forum. Grow up! ------------- The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin |
Posted By: Kuu-ukko
Date Posted: 27-May-2005 at 09:11
As they say, a dear child has many names   .
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Posted By: Phallanx
Date Posted: 27-May-2005 at 11:06
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Let's see, well according to the Turkish Sun God theory, Greece is actually a corruption of the Turkish words GARA AY KOZ that mean "black moon eye' Crazy theory
You may receive some light (knowledge), dear friend. Where? but from Hellas. Hellas= 'elios' + 'laas' = sun + rock = literally meaning "land of sun" metaphorically 'land of knowledge' (light=knowledge) Graikos = Graia = (grey) name for the inhabitants of Graia a town in Boeotia. Just like Hellines was used at one time to describe the inhabitants of a town in Thessaly. ------------- To the gods we mortals are all ignorant.Those old traditions from our ancestors, the ones we've had as long as time itself, no argument will ever overthrow, in spite of subtleties sharp minds invent. |
Posted By: Homer MakeDonski
Date Posted: 27-May-2005 at 18:21
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Will you please note what I have stated is No one name have root in their native mother thounge language instead of no one name have meaning in their mother thounge language edit should stay for tongue instead of thounge |
Posted By: Homer MakeDonski
Date Posted: 27-May-2005 at 18:34
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Cyrus Shahmiri Will you tell us why your people has made such a request Does Iranian as name have something to do with religion or the main reason supposed to be the way how you are calling your selves with out exeption of any strange and out side for you names ,as your national ones |
Posted By: Homer MakeDonski
Date Posted: 27-May-2005 at 18:46
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"rulles violationg " I am wondering what will follow after my last post Homer MakeDonski has raped un underage grandmother via mobile 
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Posted By: Menippos
Date Posted: 27-May-2005 at 19:10
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Well, what can I say. Many oppinions, many views, some agree, some don't, and some just don't care. And the odd FYROMite killing some time... Why Greeks don't care about being called Greeks? There is a status quo about the name "Greek" nowadays; it has been included in so much text, both printed and electronic, that it would be just silly to attempt to disown it. It is not provocative or controversial for either the Greeks or anyone else around the globe (unlike some other names, e.g. "Macedonia"), so nobody has a problem to either say it or hear it. It does not belong to taboo words (e.g. "nigger" - only blacks can be called niggers between them, and if a white or other-coloured person utters it, someone will be offended). It pays respect to an empire (the Roman one, that is) that used it to describe a nation instead of persecuting it via its name. It is easily pronounced, whereas the word "Hellen" sounds like "Helen" and that is a girl's name. And the Greeks nowadaya don't pronounce it "Hellen" but "Ellinas" and that would just confuse things for everyone.Finally, it is easier to say "a greek coffee" instead of "a hellenic coffee" or "an elliniko coffee". I hope this makes things clearer. If not, well, I tried...  ------------- CARRY NOTHING |
Posted By: dorian
Date Posted: 28-May-2005 at 08:53
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Greece and Hellas are two names with ancient roots. The people who don't have a nation and they try to create an imaginary one is the Slavs of FYROM. |
Posted By: Jazz
Date Posted: 29-May-2005 at 01:30
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When did the term
Romaioi fall into dis-use. During the Turcokratia (sp?) which term was used more by the Greeks to identify themselves as? ------------- http://www.forums.internationalhockey.net/index.php?/index.php?referrerid=8 - International Hockey Forums |
Posted By: Cywr
Date Posted: 29-May-2005 at 02:50
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For the same reason that the Welsh don't insist they are called Cymry,
the Dutch don't insist they are called Nederlanders, the Finns don;t
insist they are called Soumi, and so on. Of course, they all like it
when you do. Namely they take it for granted that different peoples have different names in different languages. Linguistic diversity and all that. -------------  Arrrgh!!"
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Posted By: vulkan02
Date Posted: 29-May-2005 at 12:08
i recall you once said Greece = Greqi (albanian).... Gre (woman) ... qi (do) ------------- The beginning of a revolution is in reality the end of a belief - Le Bon Destroy first and construction will look after itself - Mao |
Posted By: Phallanx
Date Posted: 29-May-2005 at 16:05
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[QUOTE =vulkan02] i recall you once said Greece = Greqi (albanian).... Gre (woman) ... qi (do) [/QUOTE]Nope, wasn't me. You've obviously either making that one up or you're thinking about someone else, since I'd never say that kind of stuff. ------------- To the gods we mortals are all ignorant.Those old traditions from our ancestors, the ones we've had as long as time itself, no argument will ever overthrow, in spite of subtleties sharp minds invent. |
Posted By: Menippos
Date Posted: 29-May-2005 at 17:05
LOL, so, according to vulkan02, Greece means "a woman's (hair-)do"!!! Sometimes linguistics can take us to long voyages... ------------- CARRY NOTHING |
Posted By: Homer MakeDonski
Date Posted: 30-May-2005 at 17:26
This is my opinion dear Sir If Hellenes is PIE for settlers then what Hellas as possible meaning could hide ? Logic is that all the settlers have had settled in the parts all around after they having migrated into the pointed places and made Helllas or an area where a group of families live together from the my mother tongue ,comparation is Hellas *H->X->K'S K'SEllas (-K)'Sellas SellAS 'Sella/s Sella-vilages in plural where singular is SellO SellO +AS -> as adopted word for from singulare to plural Sellas for the people what have made a migration to come in at the area or Ella - Come here ,( we share the same word with the same meaning dont we )the common name of Hellas could have the Macedonian meaning of Hellas or vilages as read uder the letters And my gues is that after they establish their city -states had they started to identified themselves ,as a possible by now days meaning of country recognise via the Moon Goddess of Hellene or *HelLunae what does receive shine from the Sun again my Macedonian Hel- K'Sel Sel e-je-ije Sijel Sijael Sjail -> has been shining or Sjaj-> shine |
Posted By: Menippos
Date Posted: 30-May-2005 at 18:04
Well, this way I can make many names too... Take for example the english word "fish" The ending -ish means "of the like" or "of the kind" in english. The first letter "f", usually (as in the "f word") means to "procreate". So the word "fish" then means "like procreating" = "pretending to procreate" = "having sex for fun". Therefore, "fish" means "having sex for fun". The above is as fishy as your own etymological analysis. Also: Your FYROMski word "ella" = come, comes from the arabic "yalla" = to come. The Greek word "ela" = come, is short of the word "elthe" (where "th" is the letter theta) = come. So, no relation there. Now go to sleep ------------- CARRY NOTHING |
Posted By: Homer MakeDonski
Date Posted: 30-May-2005 at 18:11
Of course that you or anybody else can make a lot of word researches what most of all must to be well grouded now you have to think how you could |
Posted By: Menippos
Date Posted: 30-May-2005 at 18:23
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Well, I saw your way of providing grounds for your suggestions, and I used exactly the same method: I took it out of my arse ------------- CARRY NOTHING |
Posted By: Perseas
Date Posted: 30-May-2005 at 18:32
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------------- A mathematician is a person who thinks that if there are supposed to be three people in a room, but five come out, then two more must enter the room in order for it to be empty. |
Posted By: Perseas
Date Posted: 30-May-2005 at 18:45
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Seriously now Makedonski guy, when i think i have read the stupidest post ever, you just go and post another. In future kindly proofread your posts before assaulting unsuspecting readers of this message board with a litany of gibberish, egregious grammatical errors, and other verbal atrocities. ------------- A mathematician is a person who thinks that if there are supposed to be three people in a room, but five come out, then two more must enter the room in order for it to be empty. |
Posted By: Menippos
Date Posted: 30-May-2005 at 21:20
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Or go to sleep
------------- CARRY NOTHING |
Posted By: Homer MakeDonski
Date Posted: 31-May-2005 at 19:30
maybe never before you have faced possibilities of my mother's tongue and indication of exactness what Macedonian words could have as its possibilities If you pointed me what is stupid in my opinion and why is stupid I could try to express my self on better way
For future and not for a long, I hope it will not be associating with all mention gramatical errors ,and so far it is as it is .. Yet ,Hopeful should be understandable that villages are much older then City States are |
Posted By: Menippos
Date Posted: 31-May-2005 at 19:37
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Tralalalala-lala-lala.....
------------- CARRY NOTHING |
Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 31-May-2005 at 19:39
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express my self on better way
express myself in a better way- the right way to say it. Sorry it is the TEFL instincts in me!!
It is ok to make grammar errors but I think their focus was on the content. Keep working on your English skills though!!! |
Posted By: Menippos
Date Posted: 31-May-2005 at 19:44
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Why do you insist associating the greek language of Makedonia with this
language of yours that has absolutely no relation to this region? Makedonski is closer to Macaronski. The dialect spoken in Makedonia is a beautiful dialect of Greek, called Makedonika Ellinika. All others are nothing but toothpaste... ------------- CARRY NOTHING |
Posted By: strategos
Date Posted: 31-May-2005 at 22:26
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SinceFYROMians are slavic, and slavs didnt arive in the balkans until round the 5th and 6th century, how do you, FYROMians trace any history to alexander and his "macedonia"? ------------- http://theforgotten.org/intro.html |
Posted By: vulkan02
Date Posted: 31-May-2005 at 22:40
Nope, wasn't me. You've obviously either making that one up or you're thinking about someone else, since I'd never say that kind of stuff. [/QUOTE] nope i remember it very well i think it was a discussion about albanian being/not being indo-european and u added this.... i simply thought it was funny... creative imaginations tho ------------- The beginning of a revolution is in reality the end of a belief - Le Bon Destroy first and construction will look after itself - Mao |
Posted By: vulkan02
Date Posted: 31-May-2005 at 22:41
hey blame phallax's imagination not mine ------------- The beginning of a revolution is in reality the end of a belief - Le Bon Destroy first and construction will look after itself - Mao |
Posted By: Phallanx
Date Posted: 31-May-2005 at 23:54
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vulcan02 Don't balme me for your vivid imagination. As I said before, but you obviously neglected to read it. as i SAID: " I'd never say that kind of stuff. "So please inform me exactly where and when I said anything similar to this, I honestly would appreciate it, unless you've mistaken some kind of sarcasm and literally believed it. Then dear friend that is your prob not mine. ------------- To the gods we mortals are all ignorant.Those old traditions from our ancestors, the ones we've had as long as time itself, no argument will ever overthrow, in spite of subtleties sharp minds invent. |
Posted By: vulkan02
Date Posted: 01-Jun-2005 at 01:35
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phallax im pretty sure YOU said it ... i wouldn't think of it unless i
heard it from someone and as the posts prove you pretty good at
making sense at foreign words
too. You might have said it a sarcastic way of course cuz that
name wouldn't make sense unless you knew YOU said it. But yeah you
might have said it in a sarcastic way ( I hope ) Anyways lets just kill it although it might have been Mollosos ... but im pretty sure it was you.
------------- The beginning of a revolution is in reality the end of a belief - Le Bon Destroy first and construction will look after itself - Mao |
Posted By: Menippos
Date Posted: 01-Jun-2005 at 04:08
Let it die, guys, it was just an amusing little diversion.
------------- CARRY NOTHING |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2005 at 12:43
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in lack of evidence & knowledge, it is simptomatic that the romantic "greek" patriots here are insulting everyone... Homer should maybe go & take a sleep, but u (greek kidz) definitly need to wake up use some serious science, & you will find out that your "official history" is a bunch of stories for small kidz (seems like most of the ignorants here ;o) why doesnt someone here give us a lingvistic evidence that will "beat" Homers talking? why direct insulting? you think you can insult a Macedonian with calling him FYROM? hehe, we, MACEDONIANS, saw much worst things from YOU, our "dear" neighbours. where are your facts? where is your "glory" knowledge? hehe, read some History, you noobs, & argue with us with knowledge, not with insults.. we can insult as well, but it is not on our level
about the topic: lets wait few more years, than The Greeks will maybe realize who they are & where they came from...
Than maybe they will take their real place in history, without false glorification or satanisation
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Posted By: strategos
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2005 at 13:19
Yes, we are the Greeks, from the time of Homer and beyond. We have history books to tell us our history, but at least we do not make up our own little history, be proud of your Bulgarian roots. ------------- http://theforgotten.org/intro.html |
Posted By: Menippos
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2005 at 15:07
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Serdarot, Education never harmed anyone, go get some ------------- CARRY NOTHING |
Posted By: dorian
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2005 at 15:57
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The Slavs of FYROM try so hard to construct their illusive history and extend it some centuries before they descended to Balkans. Congrats!!!!!!! ------------- "We are Macedonians but we are Slav Macedonians.That's who we are!We have no connection to Alexander the Greek and his Macedonia�Our ancestors came here in the 5th and 6th century" Kiro Gligorov FYROM |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2005 at 17:08
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want to give me some educations, pls... my books, most of tehm on german & english, say there were Macedonians & Greeks... my books say there are Bulgarians & Macedonians my books gives names, years, facts...
your books are full of insults to those who claim that you, Greeks, HAVE NOTHING COMMON with US, Macedonians? this is not the topic "let insult us" but i can do it too should i start? no, u know why? couse i know my history, & ignorant words from ignorant kidz are not goin to insult me. as i wrote, my ancestors aer coming from Solun (Thesaloniki, Thesalonika, Salonika) & Heraklea (linkestis) or Solun is not Macedonian city? & Heraklea is a Greek city? hehe hoho haha my ancestors are still alive, exactly those who were victims of the "greek democracy" in 1948, exactly those who are pressing charges against the Greek state before the European courts, exactly those who will get their land, pride & identity back! like i said, come to me with HISTORY, couse insults are pathetic & i do not responce on insults & i saw something about "no insults" in the forum rulz, so i will have to remind the admins / mods to practice the rulz hehe, kidz... i have good education, had time with my 32 years to get some whats the average here? 12? come on... |
Posted By: Lannes
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2005 at 17:25
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This one's gone. If you're curious why, look no further than the last few posts... I see a few other threads around that have the potential to degenerate into the same flame war we saw here. So, if you know discussions like this will only incite you to post flames (or other unwanted material), be wise and steer clear of them. ------------- τρέφεται δέ, ὤ Σώκρατης, ψυχὴ τίνι; |