Not Turkish Spring
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Scholarly Pursuits
Forum Name: Current Affairs
Forum Discription: Debates on topical, current World politics
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=33756
Printed Date: 13-May-2024 at 04:12
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Not Turkish Spring
Posted By: Ollios
Subject: Not Turkish Spring
Date Posted: 01-Jun-2013 at 10:42
|
First of all please don't call what is happening in Turkey as Turkish Spring or don't give stupid flower's name. They were excellent creative names for own event, but doing samething for every protest is unpleasent. The spark of this event is here; Gezi Parkı(something like Trip Park)  It is near the main square of Istanbul  Goverment is planing to built actually rebuilt old Ottoman Barracks so after the project, it looks like this  However it is a little bit symbol against oppressive goverment.  The main statue of Istanbul is behind (1.06.2013) |
Replies:
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 01-Jun-2013 at 14:29
|
Yesterday Night from BBC [TUBE]B1b-sEMAw7I[/TUBE]Al Jazeera [TUBE]-MZpzPeeKOk[/TUBE] CNN [TUBE]GqLw8KOYrbA[/TUBE] My pictures, I went there after polices left the area.  Bizim means Ours, so "Istanbul-Bizantion(Byzantion)-Kostantinopol(Constantinople) is Ours"  |
Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 02-Jun-2013 at 02:23
| It looks like Turkish summer.Very hot indeed. |
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 02-Jun-2013 at 02:55
LoL  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is not new. On this May 1, Turkish goverment blocked Taksim Square for protest, same thing happened  Also historical cinema Emek fall in piece to rebuilt on top of a new mall. There was a protest in that time(this april), in same place too.  But of course this time is bigger. |
Posted By: yomud
Date Posted: 02-Jun-2013 at 04:39
|
god damn . in iran news take this as turkish islamic awakening and turkey's paiement for syria in russia they took it as socialism awakening against usa capitalism lol these all about a some trees ??? ------------- yomud are free people |
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 02-Jun-2013 at 07:50
It is not islamic awakening, I saw many people who toasting beer to honour of Erdoğan but Turkish policy of Syria and Capitalism (shopping mall) can be small reason. Obviously, it is not about just trees. It is reaction against goverment. As I told before there were several protests in this spring. Erdoğan is acting like an selected Sultan (in his case mostly Halife  ) till next election. Of course he is not a devil. He did something good. In his period, I think the first time kurds feel like equal citizens. He took the power in army but give it to his police who can be control easily by his local men also construction is effective main branch which helps his islamic middle class. he uses it to help his supportersHe is doing good or bad in his dictatoric ways like in early republic period (Ataturk and Inonu also can be censurable). He did not argue anything. Even now he is telling "if you are 100.000 people in there, he can find 1 million. Don't force us." *Third Brigde and third airport is starting on Istanbul Blacksea coast which will help the city develop to there. These areas are only large green zones of Istanbul *Nuclear plants is starting to built in Turkey, but there is no one who wants it. *Also strict Sweden alcohol lay is now in our country. As you can guess, Turkey is in depht about alcohol consumption in Europe, but accoding to him, alcohol is problem in Turkey. We didn't talk those issues. We have election dam(10%) so they got 50% of votes but they have 327 parliamenter(total is 550).They have enough power to pass all own laws and president was the old priminister of same party. That's why he lets all law pass.
|
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 02-Jun-2013 at 16:19
|
Istanbul is still hot. I have just been in local protest in my neighbour (my photos)  Taksim Statue  |
Posted By: yomud
Date Posted: 02-Jun-2013 at 17:54
|
im truly worrying about turke this not good it's something like revolution i heard they cuts electricity in Ankara riots get extremely dangerous whats going on ?? i hope this won't ruin my age dream u should stay away from communist they are not a people who care for people or country i think your rivals are celebrating for this http://rt.com/news/taksim-protest-erdogan-marauders-133/ http://rt.com/news/turkey-protest-erdogan-istanbul-131/ http://rt.com/op-edge/almond-turkey-protest-taksim-119/ http://rt.com/usa/gezi-zuccotti-occupy-turkey-118/ http://rt.com/news/turkey-protests-second-day-114/ http://rt.com/news/turkey-clashes-istanbul-park-067/ i think we need more clear view truly what's happening there ?? turkey is a country with long standing regimes like ottomen and ataturk's regime if this republice fall to revolution than ataturk's work will be for nothing no other country in middle east have long standing regime like turkey i hop u people knowing what u are doing ------------- yomud are free people |
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 03-Jun-2013 at 03:00
Yes, Ankara situation is critical. You are planing to go university in Ankara, aren't you? [TUBE]0iKVj7rgbTQ[/TUBE]
Capitalism comes from word capital which can be money or goods but communism comes from word community, society, public, so in philosophic perspective, it is not possible. If someone who doesn't care people, can't be communist. During the cold war, USA has already plant seeds of anti-communism in Turkey and Russia's act like wanted land from Turkey, created huge communism barrier in Turkey. They are small group in Turkey
I am sorry to hear that. I suggest you to look also other sources about the issue. Maybe you can change your mind. This is not a protest against Atatürk's regime. Contrarily, to protect it against possible oppressive islamic regime. One of the famous slogal is "We are solider of Mustafa Kemal(this is name of the Atatürk)" but I don't like it. The sound of solider is a little bit militarist, but I understood you. You know just a islamic revolution, so revolution is creepy for you. Femen  |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 03-Jun-2013 at 06:41
|
It seems there is a virus in the region, it began 4 years ago in Iran and will probably come back here soon, I think it can be called a fight between Islamists and anti-Islammists! http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/03/world/meast/syria-turkey-travel-warning/?hpt=hp_t2 - CNN: War-torn Syria issues travel warning against Turkey : Syria, the country where a bloody civil war has killed about 80,000 people, is advising its citizens to avoid visiting neighboring Turkey.  ------------- 
|
Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 03-Jun-2013 at 10:47
|
I'm going to react to this as about 60% of the adult male population will.
How will this affect the European Basketball Championship?  ------------- "Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces". Unknown. |
Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 03-Jun-2013 at 10:51
There's a European Basketball Championship? ------------- What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture. |
Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 03-Jun-2013 at 11:51
|
Your joking, right? ------------- "Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces". Unknown. |
Posted By: yomud
Date Posted: 03-Jun-2013 at 12:53
and my sister get house in ayranci some where between usa embassy and atakule
communist want a communist country and surly friendship with russia and AND very soon civil war begins and one of the those movements will win the others and they will turn the turkey in what every way they like if u not becarefull everything well be out of control very fast i have 1 question and i want u answer me with honestly how much people truly hate usa ?? and how much people hate the russia ?? ------------- yomud are free people |
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 03-Jun-2013 at 14:48
Today: I can not say number. Giving number is impossible and issue is so changeable. For example during the last USA president Bush time. There is no one who likes the USA or after the Hood Event. USA popularity made his depth. However Obama has positive impact. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hood_event - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hood_event Russian-Turkey relation is more complicated. Turkey is in US group, but Russians are the second biggest turist group in Turkey, and they are important gas provider for Turkey. Turkey is Russian food supplier and partner in construction also Turkish possible impact in Central Asia and Bosphorus are other factors. Because of this complex structure, countries don't fight directly, so tension doesn't go up too much. I remember many burning USA flag case, but not Russian. This is also about after the 1991, Russia have returned his inside untill Putin and didn't try to change the world. By contrastly, USA was/is super power and tried/is trying to get shape the world. Anti-americanism is more popular than russophobia. However Turks still choose USA instead of Russia, if they have to. |
Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 03-Jun-2013 at 17:36
Yes, red, I'm joking. ------------- What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture. |
Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 04-Jun-2013 at 06:55
| They hit target with tomatoes and eggs there!Great Basketball tournament. |
Posted By: yomud
Date Posted: 04-Jun-2013 at 08:51
tell me what do u thing about turkey in eurasian union ?? well i can guess u will say we are nato member we are in american side bela bela ... iran was ally of amercia wasn't it ??? what's happen after revolution ?? there is no need for majorety russian supporter maybe 20% is more than enough what they need is angry ati american mob eurasian union have 3 stage stage 1 putin will try to recreate the soviet union  estonia latvia lithuania are far for their grasp since yulia tymoshenko in jail ukraine remain in russian side and if they dont putin make clear that he will take eastren ukraine and cramian since he prove to all ex-soviets that he will get what he want and nato/un are nothing he made georgia example for all of us armenia belaruss ad kazakhistan are with russia they will force turkmenistan to join them azerbajan is nothing with out turkey stage 2 holding strategically country like turkey iran egypt well iran is already in russian side . egypt was in russian side in the time of nasir and they will work onnasir memory to regain power there since america win islamic mohammad morsi support they will aside with seculars this will make usa as evil islamic supporter and turkey as u said Anti-americanism is more popular than russophobia well i read in internet every year 200.000 russian women are merrying with turkish men i call it real national security problem why they are focusing on turkey ?? there is no ethnic who merry in this huge size with russians but the turks EU member are strongly opposed to let the turkey enter the EU and EU economy problem has made so many question among the turks that why they should enter the place which they are not welcomed and have weak economy with energy problem am i not right ??? while eurasian union don't have economy problem and much friendly to the turks while they have iran iraq syria and turkmenistan (by force ) in their side which guarantee your country's energy they will turn your pan turkism ideology against you we know pan turkism is a problem to russian but in these days if u check the russian website u will see how they defend this !!!! they are keep saying turkey's place in among us among rest of the turks not westerns and after turkey fall to a revolution (as iran did ) they will turn turkey to a anti westren country and use your neo-ottomanism to gain power among the arabs as far as i see that fool obama didn't done anything about it expat getting close tide with kurds and armenians which increase the hatred from america among the turks and leaving billions worth equipment and guns in afghanistan very soon we ill be in middle of new cold war but in this cw russians will have upper hand and this will began if tukey side with russians stage 3 is global status of eurasian union they will find ally in latin american countrys india south africa vietnam malasya they are making their own global bank in bric russians will rule on EU and middle east while they have already unleashed their chine dog on usa economy well with the thing the russians have done to us i dont thing this will be good for us the asaid with them in if turkmenistan and turkey join with russian than we will become taget for west this is not good for us at all tell me in turkey what people's think anout russia and eurasian union ?? i advise u to read this book "new great game blood and oil " ------------- yomud are free people |
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 04-Jun-2013 at 11:28
People get angry of Europe Union policy about Turkey, but still Shanghai Cooperation Organisation is more important than Eurasian Union. Turkish efforts are just on this economical way, not political "Turkey Makes It Official With SCO"(April 2013) http://www.eurasianet.org/node/66896 - http://www.eurasianet.org/node/66896 |
Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 04-Jun-2013 at 16:38
|
Everyone hates the USA. It's the most popular world wide pastime. We usually accept it and go on with our own thing.
I wonder, what would things be like if suddenly we no longer accepted this crap gracefully, and really started hating back, to the degree and intensity level we are despised. No health outreach programs for Underdeveloped countries, no participation in the UN, We provide most of the funding for it, but it's really just a hangout for an "old boy's" network for USA haters. Get out and put the money we waste on people who just turn around and backstab us, back into the US.
Actually, why not cancel all foreign aid entirely. It's our tax money, we can put it to much better use than propping up Despotic governments whose people don't give a damn about us anyway.
While we're at it, let's withdraw all Naval units back to US waters. You got pirates? Take care of them yourselves, or get the Russians out there and let them spend Billions and get spit on for it.
Withdraw all US troops now on foreign soil and their equipment, leave nothing behind. You want weapons and technology? Pay for it, just like we do.
Our Arms and Technology programs are so much in advance of everyone else, we could cut the Defense budget in half, and coast, for a very long time. Putting 100's of Billions back into the budget would stabilize the economy in a heartbeat.
Islamo Terrorists are trying to take over your country? Tsk Tsk! Call Germany, or China or....Anyone but the US.
Do you know what's worse than hatred? Indifference! And if you push us enough, that's what you'll get.
We put the lives of our son's and daughters on the line, expend trillions in treasure and get crapped on in return, stick it! let some one else do it.
------------- "Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces". Unknown. |
Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 04-Jun-2013 at 16:58
|
BTW- The so called "Hood Event" took place under the fog of war. The Turk operatives were not uniformed and Turkey was not co operating as part of the coalition. Our troops had every reason to question who they were and why they were there.
Your folks already hated the US, this was just a handy excuse for it. ------------- "Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces". Unknown. |
Posted By: Mosquito
Date Posted: 04-Jun-2013 at 17:20
Not in Poland. However we also start to feel dissapointed with our American allies. ------------- "I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche |
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 04-Jun-2013 at 18:14
|
Wow, someone is angry
Unfortunately, it is scientific fact. Also it is about power. you get be with your friend on the peak and American isolated geography makes him more alone.
It shouldn't be your charity, it is your tax which you have to pay also Turkey as a better country (according to world averange ) has to pay more. I think all world as an united country. If the rich ones isolated themselves and live alone public riot will be ineluctable. We should provide social justice in our country and in all world.
You are the biggest exporter of arm so, don't worry you earn more than you spend to improve them. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- also in USA case, you are a little bit drunk with power.
|
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 04-Jun-2013 at 18:18
It is true for nearly all East Europe countries, isn't it?
|
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 04-Jun-2013 at 18:49
It is not reason of hate, it makes just more bad. It wasn't always. Before the independence, a large group who support US mandate and there was no anti-americanism during the cold war. I think anti-americanism began with Israel also USA policy in Cyprus case was more close to Greek then Turks. We were under the USA arm embargo for Cyprus and papaver planting The first big act is in 1969, I don't know before. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_%281969%29 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1969) for left side, Anti-Americanism=imperialism, and it is something like Sovviet expansion (not political, just economical expansion) for religious guys, the reason is clear |
Posted By: yomud
Date Posted: 04-Jun-2013 at 20:20
|
well lets stop on this point it wasn't my attation to mention anti americanism for starting anti american feelling what is im try to say is the "new great game " has already begun but we don't see any move form usa turk are closet ally and loyalist friend of usa . where every u look u will see the russians should challenge turks in cenral asia their neo-sovitism must challenge turkish pan-turkism in balkan their pan slavism should challenge the neo ottomanism russians spending billions in palestine to gain popularity while u are in israil side their end is not palestine ofc but the suez canal cuz this canal brings oil to europ and europian goods to the world . turkish neo ottomanism is challenging thier billions among the arab we can see erdogan as most popularity lider in islamic world and now what the turks get in return ?? Europe Union policy about Turkey ?? turks fight side by side of u in afghanistan while obama make close tide with kurds and his action about the armenians make not only turkey upset but also 2 other turkish county (azerbijan and turkmenistan) turks are keeping large number of syrian refuge and all of turkey's neighboring countries are against them . armenia is enemy of turkey iran is is enemy of turkey iraq is enemy of turkey syria is is enemy of turkey and the last thing the turks need is greek kicked from EU and join with russian than they will completely surrounded with russian allies they need to beg to russian and iranian for energy while usa dont helpe'm to make pipline form turkmenistan to turkey so we see turkish gov has not choose but to build nuclear plants in a country which has very strong earthquakes and people fear those nuclear plants suffered same fate as fukushima did your friends need your help and what is seems you are abandoning them ------------- yomud are free people |
Posted By: yomud
Date Posted: 04-Jun-2013 at 20:25
|
ofc turkey and poland don't have same positions poland is deep with in of europ safety along with it's allies while turkey is surrounded with russian allies how do u feel every day your neighboring call u enemy ?? every day they may cut your enegry ??? every day some terrorist kill some of your soldiers and sabotage your pipline while your ally make close tide with them ?? ------------- yomud are free people |
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 05-Jun-2013 at 03:17
|
*Greek-Turkey relation ship gain positve momentum after greek help for earthquake disaster. Maybe this is a start for new momentum. [TUBE]rYkNop3vUfQ[/TUBE] *The third biggest football teams of Turkey is in Istanbul, so holiganism sometimes happen as this year; one guy died. But now all fans move together and Turkey gained a new team. Three guys from different teams at the front  Every move has own symbolic image as in tiananmen square and this could be also image of this protest   *We said Erdoğan that "Geziden çık(Get out of the Gezi Park)" but he understood that "Geziye çık(go for a trip)" and he left the country alone to visit magrip countries. |
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 05-Jun-2013 at 10:20
|
A gift from Turkey to english; Chapulling http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapulling - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapulling  |
Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 05-Jun-2013 at 10:56
|
I post things at times to gauge the reactions. Ollios, I now know what side of the aisle you stand on.
This one was interesting. You people have little or no real understanding of what US politics is really like and what is actually going on here. The Media you get is a twisted version at best.
BTW- It didn't go unnoticed that Turkey, as a Nato member refused to cooperate with the Coalition and did not allow use of their air space.
Our son's unit was operating in the North of Iraq, the combat team he was leading came under fire twice by Turk boarder units.
His unit was part of the old "International Force" of which Turkey was part of. They trained with the Turks. Our son once respected them greatly and thought of them as an allie. In his words, "friends? nahh, just another target.
Turkey is trying to straddle the fence, but the fence keeps getting higher. And in case your wondering, he immediately ordered his men to return fire and killed a couple of them. Without hesitation.
------------- "Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces". Unknown. |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 05-Jun-2013 at 11:13
|
If American allies are disillusioned with US Policy then blame the policy makers. Which is to say Obama and company. They have held the community stage since 2008.
They remain to date, imo, the weakest in 40 years. Disjointed, contradictory and a constant barrage of messaging to the known enemies of the US and it's primary allies; that has only indicated weakness and has encouraged regional grabs of influence. Which was nothing new to begin with. This is why in part the Turks straddle the fence. That and a general return of more hostile Islamist elements within that are being pandered to by their government. The truth remains the truth. And the outcomes remain problematical. Do for example the Turks want a return of serious Russian influence in the region? Which consequently is not conducive to their regional and economic goals and objectives let alone genuine principals of democratic society. Or is the actual answer a rejection of the fundamentalist Islamist threat and serious efforts to contain the same. They are doing well versus the butcher Assad but this is not effort. And in reality is a response to regional border protection (quite rightly so btw). And more should be forthcoming from the Americans but it will not under the current leadership. More also should come from Euro 'gaga' land where riding a fence behind US Military power and money has been the norm since the Marshall Plan. But it wont. Because their vested ties to oil production and resource acquisition coupled to threats of internal Islamic based immigrants unrest has them petrified. I may be ill and not 100% at this point but I am gawd damn sure not blind. Bet your ass. ps. as for returning fire? Absogawdamnlutely. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 05-Jun-2013 at 15:23
In a same way, do you have idea of Turkish politics and what's going on here That's why people don't like you
Answer is Iraq War. Didn't you get in Iraq for nuclear weapon which was not exist. How much twisted enviroment is that?
Didn't Turkey join operations in Libya, Somalia and Afghanistan? I don't mentioned about Incırlık and Kurecik base. Giving permission a war which is near you, is more different. Turkey also have bad experience, which was left by the First Gulf War (economical) and if you know Turkish history, how Ottoman get in WW1(just opening bosphorus for german battle ship), you can think different As every country will do, Turkey never put himself into fire easily. As Finland, they try to be nuetral, Turkey has to follow same policy. That's why, Turkey can follow open policy agaisnt Syria but Iran or Russia will be more different. |
Posted By: Mosquito
Date Posted: 05-Jun-2013 at 19:59
I think that you should try to understand that American interests are not always the same as the interests of America's allies. You cannot demand from us - your allies - to act for your profits completelly ignoring what we think or the fact that it will worsen our position. Especially if American establishment gives us false informations about alleged iraq weapons of mass destruction and make us looking fool on the international scene. ------------- "I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 05-Jun-2013 at 22:16
|
''Especially if American establishment gives us false informations about alleged iraq weapons of mass destruction and make us looking fool on the international scene.''
A fair enough example but not the most recent or just as good as making the Poles look like fools. That was Obama and his kowtowing to the Russians and the rejection of the missile shield against Iran. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 06-Jun-2013 at 01:06
I can't explain better
Don' we build the early warning system of USA, oh sorry NATO? Obviously, this arming race is getting closer us possible new war even the issue is defence. I don't support.  |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 06-Jun-2013 at 10:01
|
You get credit for your participation in the reduced version. that's all.
And as noted that's a nato fix. The truth remains the original version was traded by Obama and made the Poles look stupid. No matter the counter rhetoric that fact can not be escaped. Work on reducing tensions within; eliminate your fundamentalists and remember what Ataturk would have done. Turkey's place is amongst the democratic states not theological fundamentalist wacko jobs. Turkey's place is to reject and or contain reknewed Russian neo-communistic and totalitarian, still very much alive, 'hardliners' attempts to influence in the region; not supporting them. You know it and so do I. Obama's betrayal of Polish alliance and friendship was a travesty. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Mosquito
Date Posted: 06-Jun-2013 at 10:22
Well, there is more. We were promissed to get lucrative contracts for rearming Iraq's army and few other things. Americans told us that while most of contracts will go to American companies, our will also gets its share. We were supposed to sell in in Iraq helicopters, light tanks, armoured vehicles or missile system.
such like those:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KTO_Rosomak - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KTO_Rosomak
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WPB_Anders - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WPB_Anders
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PZL_W-3_Sok%C3%B3%C5%82 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PZL_W-3_Sok%C3%B3%C5%82
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grom_%28missile%29 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grom_(missile)
But we got nothing. I dont care that it was maybe one president of USA who was making promisses and other who was breaking them, but facts are facts, US goverment fooled us.
There is even more. Because we have become American allies we lost as well many of our older recipients of arms, to whom we cant sell our arms anymore. And in the past Iraq was one of our main clients. Our companies were selling there not only arms but even building roads and factories. By joining USA we have lost this market. Same was with Syria or Lybia.
------------- "I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche |
Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 06-Jun-2013 at 12:35
|
Mosquito, as far as I'm aware countries work on the principle of self interest first, and so it also follows that agreements made, and at times broken, are also in line with this. It may not then actually have been the intention of anyone to fool anyone else. Government spending can be a fickle creature, as is economic conditions. As for older recipients of arms, Mosquito, there aren't many countries that can't look back at those they sold weapons to, and either wish they hadn't, or at least could have been able to hide the knowledge of their involvement while at the same time pocketing the money. ------------- What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture. |
Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 06-Jun-2013 at 12:56
|
I think that you should try to understand that American interests are not always the same as the interests of America's allies. You cannot demand from us - your allies - to act for your profits completelly ignoring what we think or the fact that it will worsen our position. Especially if American establishment gives us false informations about alleged iraq weapons of mass destruction and make us looking fool on the international scene. And this makes it perfectly okay for Turk troops, knowing the troops they are seeing are US and are in Iraq, not Turkey, to unexpectedly open fire, for no real reason?
Our son was so pissed off that he tried calling for an airstrike, but had lost com. with fire base. So they had to be satisfied with waxing a few.
All of the posturing, political bluster and tut-tuting, all have an undercurrent that isn't surprising. Profit, money! and not the US.
"We didn't get any of those lucrative contracts" We didn't get this. We didn't get that. By helping USA, we lost this contract and that Market. Really! Tends to negate most of the protestations I've seen so far. Concern over the Human Condition seems to be missing, but not the concern over the all mighty buck.
And Ollios, There is a predominately Turkish Mosque at the end of my street. Our town has 3 Turk owned and operated coffee shops, which I patronize regularly.
This not only allows me to follow the 8 pro B Ball teams in Istanbul, it also gives me a unique view of Turk politics, from folks who can speak openly, without fear of retribution. Ollios, they don't quite see things the way you do.
------------- "Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces". Unknown. |
Posted By: Mosquito
Date Posted: 06-Jun-2013 at 13:22
I dont want to make impression that Poland did somthing for money especially considering the fact that didnt get any while invested quite a lot in Iraq or Afganistan war.
One must remember that when we joined US forces in Iraq we became the most criticised country in European Union. Our main trade partners and neighbours - Germans were trying to make huge pression on Poland. President of France publically said that Poland lost its chance to stay quiet. All the european diplomats started anti-Polish rhetorics. Poland was even called a troyan horse of the USA in Europe. So it was against Poland's vital interests to aid USA in Iraq but Poland did it anyway.
And what we get in exchange? US president kissing Russian a*** few years later and our companies excluded from rebuilding Iraq. While all the decisions about who gets what contract belong to corrupt Iraqis politicians and to american (corrupt?) politicians.
------------- "I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche |
Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 06-Jun-2013 at 13:55
|
Although not getting money doesn't preclude an intention for it, Mosquito, involvement doesn't automatically signify an intention for it either. As I have already said, self interest tends to be the overwhelming factor, be it political or economic. For instance, the Germans. They have strong ties with the French. The French were well publicized as doing massive deals with Saddam Hussein for the rights to Iraqi oil, putting France in a very very strong position on the world stage. The deal was the reason the French tried to stop the Iraq war, and with their close alliance with the Germans they have been notorious over a number of years for political bullying. As for Who makes decisions over Iraqi contracts, who do yo think should be making the decisions, Iraqis, or those outside of Iraq? As for American politicians, who knows? Have there been many caught in any illegal acts involved in any contracts? If the Iraqis are making decisions on contracts, are we not talking about subcontracts in regards to how American firms are operating? ------------- What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture. |
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 06-Jun-2013 at 16:38
|
@Centrix Vigilis *I took your speech about reduced version as clear humiliation.  We are living near the Iran, Iraq and Russia, so our version should be more new then yours. *I agree about fundamentalist also other atheist or religious radical groups, but I don't think that Ataturk will be in line of American supporters.
so do they have to think like me? of course not and could you be more clear, which way is mine? However how can you hope nuetral view from them(Turko-Americans) about America? or How can you make a generalization about Turks just looking them?--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We are not planing to be new Belarus but also we don't see Russia as evil as you see. Eurasia Union is not a bad idea. I know that Russia has long way about freedom. By the way, I also know that allowing hate speech or racist parties can't call as a freedom. In possible future union Turkey won't be an obedient member. During to this relationship Russia will have to think also Turkey as China. But still Turks turst USA more then Russia. |
Posted By: yomud
Date Posted: 08-Jun-2013 at 12:22
|
turkey is in the revolution main fight between ataturk's people and islamic akp more day have past more situation get worse why army is just watching ???? i though they have direct order from ataturk to protect secular regime of turkey dose turkey is going for civil war ??? ------------- yomud are free people |
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 10-Jun-2013 at 03:57
This is not a true way. What will you do against AKP supporters? They are also on streets İstanbul  Ankara  |
Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 10-Jun-2013 at 10:28
|
There has been mention made of Weapons of Mass Destruction that didn't exist in Iraq in 2003. That is an anomaly, that, to my satisfaction has never been clearly explained, by anyone.
Our son was in the original invasion force. The threat of Chemical weapons was, treated as very real, by the guys in the field. When the advance group he was with, found a large supply of new Chinese made, Chemical warfare suits and 20,000 epi injectors, "The pucker factor went up by 10". As they continued on, it became clear to our troops that the Iraqi's themselves [or at least the front line units] thought they had Chemical weapons and also thought they would be used.
You don't buy 200,000 NBC suits complete with breathing apparatus, just to scare hell out of your enemy.
One of our son's officers was the first to express the idea that even the Iraqi General staff thought these weapons existed and would be used. Supply and deployment supported this idea.
So the question is asked, who was zooming who? Were the weapons real? Or just an elaborate hoax by Sadam, that blew up in his face when GWB used it as an excuse to invade? It's never been clear.
------------- "Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces". Unknown. |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 10-Jun-2013 at 12:36
|
If ya believe Wolfowitz and, I had a tendency to do so...then here's the scoop.
"The truth is that for reasons that have a lot to do with the U.S. government bureaucracy, we settled on the one issue that everyone could agree on, which was weapons of mass destruction as the core reason, but, there have always been three fundamental concerns. One is weapons of mass destruction, the second is support for terrorism, the third is the criminal treatment of the Iraqi people. Actually I guess you could say there's a fourth overriding one which is the connection between the first two." Source: 'Vanity Fair Magazine', 9 May 03. Paul Wolfowitz to Sam Tannenhaus Iow. The intell was to weak for the first and they ntl, went ahead based on even worse estimates, later to be admitted as false, still thought to be reliable.... but they should have used reasons 2-3 and possibly 4. Smells like Dick Cheney pressuring to me. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 11-Jun-2013 at 11:29
|
That still doesn't explain any of what I posted. Also, other units found empty ammo bunkers that tested positive for Chem. weapons. What you posted is interesting from the coalition side, but doesn't explain what was going on in Iraq.
All of the evidence points to there having been WMD's, so another question, where did they go? Or was this an "internal hoax" meant to build confidence in Sadam's army and give the troops the idea they could actually win.
------------- "Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces". Unknown. |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 11-Jun-2013 at 12:25
|
I concur with the preponderance of the presence of special weapons prior and during Desert S/S. No arguments there.
What happened after..... and prior to GWB's adventure in the desert remains yet debatable. For some 'light reading'. ''In retrospect, therefore, it seems reasonable to conclude that one of the most significant reasons that U.S. and British troops have not found nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons or proscribed missiles in Iraq is that, following the 1991 Gulf War, the bulk of these weapons and associated facilities were destroyed either by the United Nations or unilaterally by Iraq.'' See: http://www.armscontrol.org/act/2003_09/Cleminson_09 The key phrase in the above is .....''the bulk''. Define that and then explain what remained, what was not located and, where it went. Here is one version of a potential answer. http://www.wnd.com/2004/04/24352/ ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 11-Jun-2013 at 13:44
|
@Ollios.
Keep your head down. I don't particularly care whose side your own at home...but whether ya believe it or not, I like you. And would see ya have no harm. CV ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 12-Jun-2013 at 07:27
 Yesterday Sounds of Gezi Park [TUBE]NxA7cIv5mcY[/TUBE] [TUBE]LFp-K-NdsjY[/TUBE] [TUBE]EPx8S0xDhTY[/TUBE] |
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 12-Jun-2013 at 11:42
Italian deputies wear red to support Gezi Park protesters http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/italian-deputies-wear-red-to-support-gezi-park-protesters.aspx?pageID=517&nID=48685&NewsCatID=351 - http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/italian-deputies-wear-red-to-support-gezi-park-protesters.aspx?pageID=517&nID=48685&NewsCatID=351 It is because of, the lady in red is also another symbol for resistence  |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 12-Jun-2013 at 11:56
|
Excellent work on informing us of the situation.
Contact http://www.foxnews.com/ and get on the payroll as a contributing reporter. And.... Keep your head down. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: TITAN_
Date Posted: 13-Jun-2013 at 07:30
|
So, Mr. Ergogan wants to ban public kissing, consumption of alcohol during certain hours and other liberties that modern humans should have? ------------- αἰὲν ἀριστεύειν Een aristevin “Ever to Excel“ From Homer's Iliad (8th century BC). Motto of the University of St Andrews (founded 1410), the Edinburgh Academy (founded 1824) and others. |
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 13-Jun-2013 at 16:08
public kissing: There is no written public kissing ban, I mean not yet. The frightening thing is different. After a single kissing case, an announcement came after in subway. Then a group of people went to same place to protest it. However there were another group too. They were scary. [TUBE]cRM11lPCRlg[/TUBE] Note: One protestor was injured by guys in second group. Consumption of alcohol: Do you know how it makes to take an alcohol license? or do you know erdogan's personal ideas about alcohol? According to his idea, if you drink alcohol, that's mean you are an alcoholic. This is from his speech and we should go drink it at home (from his speech) maybe he means as in Iran There is two main step in this protest a:Police overreaction b:Erdogan authority Erdoğan authority is unquestionable He didn't like a huge statue in Kars, it was destoried by local mayor He doesn't approve abortion, new firm abortion law prepared . . . Even one member of parliament said that I thought touching Erdogan was prayer. also similar enviroment and cultural protests happened as this *"Hundreds of protestors in Istanbul and across Europe rallied on Wednesday night to protest the municipality project to transform Istanbul's century-old train station into a hotel." http://www.birgun.net/politics_index.php?news_code=1284028274&day=09&month=09&year=2010 - http://www.birgun.net/politics_index.phpnews_code=1284028274&day=09&month=09&year=2010 Historical Train Station = Hotel Gezi Park = Ottoman Barrack for using a mall or hotel. Now they changed their idea. New project is a city museum with a few(?) shops Now, we are waiting for a new police wave. Erdogan said that this would end in 24 hours. |
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 15-Jun-2013 at 01:24
Yesterday Gezi Park (my pictures)  they have developed commun life. There are free tea, food in there. Medical students are there This weekend also meeting of AKP. Erdoğan said, it was election meeting, but who believes him
|
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 17-Jun-2013 at 05:13
|
Platform of Taksim had decided to contiune resistence after Erdoğan meeting with people in platfrom but, they had decided to reduce tent number and tried to get one tent, also move the blocking as damage cars in own previous posts. However saturday night massive police attack came like what they did on 31 May (the reason of why small enviroment protest became this size). Platform decided to contiune beacuse, Erdoğan didn't gave any promise. He just listened them and said that we were waiting for court decision and we would go to referendum. On 15 June(the day after, erdoğan met with protestors), Erdoğan had a miting in Ankara. In his speech, he still contiuned his way. Then protestor decided to stay and police attack came that night. 15th June [TUBE]WdHM8-J7sfU[/TUBE] (Turkish) 1th June 16th June     |
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 17-Jun-2013 at 05:32
|
Also on 16th June, there was a Erdoğan miting in İstanbul. I just remember one sentences from that day. An AKP woman supporter said that I am a hair in Erdoğan's ass (it's not a joke) - maybe on whatever [TUBE]LChmq_finWg[/TUBE](Turkish)
|
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 17-Jun-2013 at 05:52
Atatürk´s Address to the YouthOh Turkish Youth! Your first duty is to preserve and defend forever Turkish independence and the Turkish Republic. This is the only foundation of your existence and of your future. This foundation is your most precious treasure. In the future, too, there will be malevolent people at home and abroad who will wish to deprive you of this treasure. If one day you have to defend your independence and your Republic, you will not tarry to weigh the circumstances before taking up your duty. These possibilities and circumstances may be extremely unfavorable. The enemies nursing designs against your independence and your republic, may have behind them a victory unprecedented in the annals of the world. It may come to pass that, by violence and ruse, all the fortresses of your beloved fatherland will be occupied, all its shipyards captured, all its armies dispersed, and every part of the country invaded. And what is sadder and graver than all these circumstances is that the people in power inside the country may be blind, misguided. They may even be traitors. The men in power may join their personal interest to the political designs of the invaders. The country may be impoverished, ruined and exhausted. Oh, Child of Turkey's future, even in these circumstances it is your duty to save Turkey's independence and the Turkish Republic. You will find the power you need in the noble blood in your veins. |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 17-Jun-2013 at 07:18
|
It's easy to be a pain in the ass or on it.
It's what the other guy does to remove it that matters. Keep yer head down. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 17-Jun-2013 at 16:40
|
After nearly 18 days, now Erdoğan is planting new trees, but he still didn't give up his arrogant character. Still he didn't cancel to built a new barrack, hotel, musuem.... It seems that Turkey divide much as secular and religious but Erdoğan gained this battle. There is huge police blocking now. Even gendarmes came to help. Goverment said that if we needed, we could send soilders. |
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 19-Jun-2013 at 03:49
|
Second step in protest: silent protest Impact of one guy could be lot. Everything began with one single guy the day after second cop intervention.   "A Turkish man has staged an eight-hour silent vigil on Istanbul's Taksim Square, scene of violent clashes between police and anti-government protesters in recent weeks, inspiring hundreds of others to follow his lead." http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/06/18/uk-turkey-protests-standingman-idUKBRE95H04N20130618 - http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/06/18/uk-turkey-protests-standingman-idUKBRE95H04N20130618
|
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 24-Jun-2013 at 15:18
|
22th June My photoes (just these two)   People gathered at Taksim in 19:00 People are throwing carnations then a Turkish classic came again at 20:35  It is also good to see this. Some of Brazillians accepted Turkish effect on them.  |
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 11-Jul-2013 at 05:52
|
*Water war protest in Taksim and then police intervention http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23215299 - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23215299 *First day of Ramadan. Left:Protestors organised their own iftar(after muslim fast meal) (İstiklal Street) Right:Goverment prepared own (in front of Gezi park)   |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 12-Jul-2013 at 18:44
|
Lucky Ollios. That aint Cairo.......yet.
After all sitiing down for a little chow whether for religious or secular reasons is a good thing....long as the hotheads don't try to interfere. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: yomud
Date Posted: 12-Jul-2013 at 19:42
|
have good Ramadan dear ollios ------------- yomud are free people |
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2013 at 12:17
thank you, even I am not fasting and happy ramadan for you
|
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 04-Sep-2013 at 04:13
|
We turned back to the edge of possible new protest wave. A public stairs have painted by a retired engineer man in Istanbul, but of course there was no local goverment permission. He said that that was just for making people smile, but local authority repainted it as grey and then most of stairs in Turkey painted for resistence. However local goverment finally accepted it and repainted the stairs and goverment didn't say anthing which could make up the tension. So this is happy end. We have a lot of colourful stairs now  Painted Stairs and Repainted Stairs by local authority     |
Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 04-Sep-2013 at 05:33
|
It looks like Four Seasons now Olios!
[TUBE]GRxofEmo3HA[/TUBE]
|
Posted By: yomud
Date Posted: 12-Sep-2013 at 20:09
|
i head some bad news in turkey . turkey is not my country and maybe i should not talk about it but u know i got very bad feeling when i heard General İlker Başbuğ sentenced to life imprisonment he was highest rank of turkish army if im not mistaking . this is a very bad news clearly some guys doesn't like him and today they are taking their revenge http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%B0lker_Ba%C5%9Fbu%C4%9F ------------- yomud are free people |
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 13-Sep-2013 at 14:06
Ergenekon lawsuit is not very clear and neturalist. This idea has many supporter between govertment protestors. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergenekon_trials - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergenekon_trials ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 10th September, Turkey Protestors are using fireworks agianst police's tear gas [TUBE]p5lfFFhQHy8[/TUBE] |
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 28-Dec-2013 at 00:08
 The picture was taken yesterday, the most popular street in Istanbul. after Police and Protesters conflict ------------- Ellerin Kabe'si var, Benim Kabem İnsandır |
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 12-Mar-2014 at 01:26
|
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/03/11/turkey-violence-istanbul-ankara-_n_4943585.html - http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/03/11/turkey-violence-istanbul-ankara-_n_4943585.html A boy who has been going to market to buy a bread, has shoted by a police and after more then 200 days, he died yesterday  ------------- Ellerin Kabe'si var, Benim Kabem İnsandır |
Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 12-Mar-2014 at 01:35
| May he rest in peace! |