North Korea Discussion
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: East Asia
Forum Discription: The Far East: China, Korea, Japan and other nearby civilizations
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=33500
Printed Date: 13-May-2024 at 14:23
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: North Korea Discussion
Posted By: JuMong
Subject: North Korea Discussion
Date Posted: 21-Mar-2013 at 14:39
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The North Korean Crisis has been in the news lately. Not that anyone cares, but I'm hoping to find some sort of solution to this problem. Main issue that I hope to deal with has to do with America's failed policy regarding the North. America's show of force is not helping anyone. I'm afraid we have little choice but to use diplomacy regarding North. There is no other option. America cannot afford to get embroiled in another War. |
Replies:
Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 21-Mar-2013 at 15:12
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We already are involved in that "war". The NK gov. canceled the Truce. That means hostilities could resume at any time. Diplomacy? You cannot reason with an unreasonable person.
Considering our son would be in the thick of it, CV's son also, I sincerely hope it would be solved by cooler heads than those in pyong yang.
------------- "Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces". Unknown. |
Posted By: JuMong
Date Posted: 21-Mar-2013 at 17:23
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We are not dealing with a rational government as they are becoming increasingly paranoid. America's provocation is only creating more problems. As I've said, there is nothing wrong with diplomacy. Even if it takes 100 years, we need to talk ourselves out of this. There is no other option. ------- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pvj4uDYH3RA
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Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 21-Mar-2013 at 18:48
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The only provocation, as usual, lies at the door of the DRPK. The only saber rattling and ongoing nuc tech and proliferation lies there as well. The ongoing threats and no doubt further military aggression, covert and overt attacks on resources and disputed islands will also be from the same. The question is not whether the US and the ROK continue military exercises that they have been conducting for decades as a deterent. It will be the third generational response of the wackos in the North. The key is not an overreaction on allied nations parts.......it will, as usual, be dependent on the PRC. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 21-Mar-2013 at 20:39
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There's a simple solution: kick North Korea out of the UN and cut off all aid. If Kim retaliates, launch missile strikes on his main military bases, power stations and any other places believed to store nuclear missiles ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: lirelou
Date Posted: 21-Mar-2013 at 21:05
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First, on diplomacy: Diplomacy only works when both sides have something to give and something to lose. There is a track record of U.S. and ROK efforts to deal with North Korea diplomatically, particularly in regards to obtaining from them a promise to cease developing atomic weapons, and the only winners so far has been the North Korean regime. Second, the previous South Korean governments tried ten years of appeasement. It's results are what we are seeing now. If it were up to me, I would withdraw all U.S. forces from Korea, but keep the treaty between ourselves and the ROK. We only went to Korea to keep the ROK out of the "Communist Bloc" in the Cold War, when the ROK was a very new and untried state, its Army likewise new, untrained, under-equipped, and inexperienced, and our principal adversary was the Soviet Union. The USSR no longer exists as such, the Sino-Soviet bloc is a term now consigned to ancient history, the Republic of Korea is standing on its own two feet and has a modern, well trained, and experienced military quite capable of defending itself. The ROK military no longer needs a U.S. ground presence, but out Air Force and Navy would be a valuable addition to them in any war with the North. Finally, our minuscule presence in Korea costs us a fair amount of money. Withdrawing our remaining troops would lift that burden from our own shoulders, and place then upon that of the RFOK taxpayer, which is where it rightfully belongs in this day and age. Fortunately for the ROK taxpayers, no one has elected me God for a day. ------------- Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá gì |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 21-Mar-2013 at 22:34
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All apt..... tho I disagree with the withdraw of the presence...simply because as my fellow vet knows, 'presence' is a application of necessary force 'projection' inherent to what follows below. Knowing well MG HR McMaster's; I am a proponent of his general philosophies. And was, when he was first being commissioned back in 84. When I was already a Captain. His and mine were an accumulation of our predecessors knowledge of 'lessons learned' and the applicability of their use in future force commitment. I learned mine under J. Brandenburg, C Vouno, D. Starry, C. Abrams, R. Wagner. T. Tait, F. Brown, G. Sullivan, T. Franks and M. Thurman to name a couple. And their immediate juniors and subordinates. He learned his from the men who were Captains and Majors and Colonels who served under the former. What makes him special today is he continues to promote their applicability. And so at the expense of sounding repitious...when dealing with the DPRK and or any potential threat...four general considerations are paramount. a. War is an extension of national politics and international relations...preparation for it is synonymous. Nothing new. Clausewitz voiced it first long ago. b. War and the preparation for it and the execution of it; is a dynamically human affair. It involves virtually every aspect of the 'modern condition', as it once did the ancient... ie. economics, governmental types, theological influences and cultural and social adaptations and development. Nothing new. Caesar knew this 2000 years ago. c. War is always uncertain. No matter the prep-planning and numerical, physical, psych, factors. And other corollary factors involved ie. equipment, technology and, or RDA. Nothing new. d. War, and it's by products, economic repercussions, costs and consequences, social disruptions, loss of life, etc...is a contest of wills....which is to say an anathema to the appeaser and the dominance one seeks over his opponents. Obvious...since the days of cavemen. But unless one is willing to accept the cost or react to a direct threat vital to national survival.... force must be tempered with as much reason and not emotion as possible. Ntl. the question is often asked: when has that line been crossed? Never, ever is the answer the same. So when one pursues an investigation of the 'whys and why nots' of whether to apply force to counter a perceived or actual threat....especially rogue nations like the DPRK or Iran; one if smart, examines that above. Because by their very nature, democracies are not actually willing to conduct 'total war' as it's been most recently defined often. And the question then remains....if not...then be prepared to deal with the later and potential geopolitical repercussions... and counter reactions and opposition. Especially when one attempts it versus a foe that nationalistically, politically, and or theologically inclined or not, is prepared to resist. In the end, each conflict is different. Great or small. And to a greater or lesser degree the mechanisms of being able to counter each threat, is narcissistic at worst or falsely optimistic; if the political and military leadership does not treat them as such...ntl remembering to apply lessons learned. But equally important to develop, train, maintain and equip a force for as many contingencies as possible..... and to inculcate in the civil leadership the same motivations and attitudes. And that friends and neighbors is never easy.
------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: lirelou
Date Posted: 22-Mar-2013 at 23:22
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Ah yes. All good general rules. But I like to think of Korea in Bismarckian terms: Given that the ROK has the conventional capability to win a war with North Korea (though USAF support would be valuable icing on the cake), what in Korea is worth the life of a single Pomeranian Grenadier? (Or, a single USMC Lance Corporal.) ------------- Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá gì |
Posted By: JuMong
Date Posted: 23-Mar-2013 at 07:58
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SKYFALL : 2013 I thought I saw a spammer named "skyfall" recently on this board? Can anyone track that address? I'm seriously beginning to question the recent barrage of Meteor showers??? It seems like these guys are playing a serious game of chicken. Who are they? US & SK vs Russia and China, NK and Iran ? It may have begun with the Russians in 2011? I'm trying to find the article about the Russians test firing a missile while Obama was in Europe in 2011? It might have been an earlier date with Bush? US always answers these provocations. Where was that meteor over Russia headed? A zinc factory? I really don't care who started this, but this is beginning to tread on a dangerous territory. We need to cool it. I just hope, I'm imagining all this... Russian event 2-15-2013 http://www.infowars.com/russia-shot-down-the-meteor-theory-spreads-online/ (Alex Jones is not as crazy as you think.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=r-FBZom8_HE#! Missile tests: http://www.infopig.com/keywords/Missile-Launch.html |
Posted By: JuMong
Date Posted: 23-Mar-2013 at 08:45
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RE lirelou: I agree with you, America needs to get out of SK, but it's not just SK. U.S. is nearly bankrupt and can no longer afford to able the policeman of the world. It needs to face that reality. At the same time, the so called American allies must also spend more money defending their own countries. We maybe a lot closer to reaching the second Dark Age after the fall of the USA; but, I just don't think most countries are ready for that. |
Posted By: lirelou
Date Posted: 23-Mar-2013 at 10:01
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JuMong, the only strategic advantage that South Korea obtains from our continued presence is that a conflict would tie us into the post-war clean-up. They would lean on us heavily in the rebuilding of North Korea. I am convinced, and I believe that the massive anti-American demonstrations in the wake of the 2002 Yangju Highway incident bears me out, that upon 1) the collapse of North Korea, or 2), our assistance in rebuilding it in the wake of a re-opening of the war, the South Koreans would simply declare a date upon which we would have to evacuate the peninsula that would have no relation to any UNC/USFK plans. We would sit in our bases and whimper that the Koreans were ungrateful, and snivel about how badly our land bases are needed on the Asian mainland to keep the peace. We would keep letting out contracts and forge ahead with base upgrades and construction, all the time hoping that the Koreans would change their minds. Then we would be angry when they don't. The Koreans meanwhile would be very gracious, giving out military medals and unit awards for past services, and then announce that former USFK members, to include civilians, would be eligible for discounted airline fares on Korean airlines, as part of a 'Re-visit Korea" campaign. MKeanwhile, down in the dirty tricks department of the far Left and Right of ROK politics, idealists would be churning out U.S. Base "comfort women" articles, alleging that the U.S. owes billions to the former B girls for the degradations they suffered, with the alleged collusion of the USFK command, at the hands of U.S. troops, and enlisting the anti-military and ultra-feminist wings of the American Left in their cause. ------------- Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá gì |
Posted By: JuMong
Date Posted: 23-Mar-2013 at 15:27
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RE lirelou: We are at a very serious crossroads here in terms of where the world is headed. The world is shifting very quickly and America is no longer the Superpower that it thinks it is. It is 16 trillion dollars in debt, and basically a third world with a large army that it can no longer afford to maintain. It is not surprising that there are Russian scholars that's equating what's happening in US right now with the former Soviet Union. Can it hold itself together and not Balkanize like the former Soviet Union? ------ There is a strong anti-American sentiment everywhere, this is not just South Korea. How many real friends do the US have in the world right now? Who can they really count on? And why should they? There is also a strong sense that America has lost all credibility with the Two Wars that it has fought in the Middle East. No one trusts America anymore to do the right thing. The real problem in America is the failed educational system. The political class is not any smarter than the rest of the ill-educated Americans. Just look at the lack of quality that America is producing right now; George Bush followed by Barrack Obama?? It's not surprising that America is failing with these unqualified leadership. ------ US / Korea Relations: The relationship that was forged between US and Korea goes way back before the Korean War. I'm not too sure if even most American policymakers these days understand just what it took to forge these relations to begin with. I want to go back to reiterate this point: 1884 ~ present: https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/vol49no1/html_files/first_attache_5.html America's long term objective in forging these alliances took time. I'm sure it will take time to work out the difference between North Korea and the US. Current US politicians simply do not understand their own history. ------ The sky is falling (but why?): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo-NMIJ_7mI http://www.viki.com/channels/10519-that-winter-the-wind-blows/videos/89214
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Posted By: lirelou
Date Posted: 24-Mar-2013 at 19:39
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JuMon, in re your: "How many real friends do the US have in the world right now? Who can they really count on? And why should they?" First of all, no nation has any 'real friends'. Nations have interests. Legally, they may have allies, but those parties will be allies only so long as they deem it in their interest to be so. To do otherwise would be foolish. The problem with a democracy as large as the United States lies in defining our national interests. The myriad bodies which compose the American electorate have differing ideas as to what is in the national interest. Thus what is in our interest is often a matter of political compromise, and the problem there is that public perception as to what is in our interest can shift very quickly in response to events. Three Examples which occurred relatively quickly in the wake of Sec State Dean Acheson's January 1950 speech to the Washington Press, in which he omitted Korea as an area with the U.S. defensive perimeter. The first and most obvious was the U.S. decision to send troops to Korea in the wake of the 25 June 1950 North Korean invasion. The second was the U.S. decision to start providing military aid to the French Union Forces fighting in Indochina. This second was in response to a French loss of 8 elite battalions to Giap's regular troops, newly introduced from China. In the relative blink of two eyes, the U.S. decided to defend Korea and support French operations by providing arms and equipment for the newly created Vietnamese, Cambodian, and Laotian national armies. The third, and most shocking to our WWII European allies, was the U.S. decision to oppose the British-French Suez expedition against Nassar's Egypt. Again, nations have interests, not friends in the sense that ordinary citizens have friends. As for who we can count on? As long as we can count on ourselves, we will do well.
------------- Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá gì |
Posted By: JuMong
Date Posted: 25-Mar-2013 at 04:15
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lirelou, You're really bringing back a lot of bad memories with this "national interest" stuff ? I hope you're not who I think you are? I remember the Neo-Cons saying this exact same thing to justify the 2nd generation Gulf Wars... I don't want to go back there, ever again. I think it might behooves US to do the right thing because that would be a "moral" thing to do. In the the long run, that would better serve US National Interests. I'm still trying to figure out just what kind of legacy America will leave behind? It is hard to tell at this point... http://empoweredquotes.com/2008/10/13/insanity-albert-einstein-2/ ------ American Democracy? Is there such thing as Democracy in US? I'm beginning to suspect that this is all an illusion. ------ Korean War and beyond I could go on endlessly about the Korea War and what led to it; but, as a great coach once said, " Those that live in the past are cowards and losers." I'm learning to let go... We should try to learn from our past, not bask in lost glory. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100318125705AAhClGh ----- Peak Oil As we are way past Peak Oil....Will we have anything left to fight for? http://peakoil.com/ ------ http://www.dramabeans.com/2013/03/that-winter-the-wind-blows-episode-13/#comments
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Posted By: lirelou
Date Posted: 25-Mar-2013 at 16:24
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JuMoong. Remember this from my post? " The myriad bodies which compose the American electorate have differing ideas as to what is in the national interest. Thus what is in our interest is often a matter of political compromise, and the problem there is that public perception as to what is in our interest can shift very quickly in response to events." Perhaps the problem with the Neocons is that the true believers among them were too blind to understand that they would not get a national consensus, and the more cynical among them presumed that they could lead the skeptics down the primrose path, and in the end everything would work out. I'll close this by saying that I see Korea much like I see Israel. My wife and I love Korea and have great admiration for the Koreans. That was not the case with my wife prior to our seven years there. And I can understand why American Evangelicals feel a close tie to Israel. But while their interests may at times coincide with ours, they are not identical. The Koreans and Israelis will undercut and stab us in the back the second they perceive it is in their interest to do so. And most of us happily (OK, not always happily) do the same to them when duty requires it. The adults among realize that that's the way it has to be. When my Korean counterpart was lying to me, or trying to find out some information he wasn't supposed to know, he (0r she) was doing their duty to their country, and to its duly constituted leadership. I believe that the days of Korea being in our defensive perimeter are long over, and we should terminate our presence there as no longer being in our interest.
------------- Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá gì |
Posted By: JuMong
Date Posted: 25-Mar-2013 at 20:00
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I remember what Americans did to the French after the Revolutionary War was over. You're only projecting your own past; but, as I said, world is changing very quickly. Korea must do what it must to survive. This world is not a kind place. America has over 600 military bases around the world, it is a country that is stuck in a Cold War mindset. Without a real enemy, it seems to be lost. America must reaccess it's foreign policy and learn to tread carefully in this dangerous world. There is no room for error, any misunderstanding can be fatal. I will wish you Good Luck, Lou; but what I have seen of your country does not inspire me. ------ And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. ~ Isaiah 2:4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIU7Gsbkghg
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Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 29-Mar-2013 at 16:25
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''N. Koreans Rally for Military Strike Against US'' Further Provocation. Solution? Flatten the place first. http://www.voanews.com/content/north-koreans-rally-to-support-threat-of-military-strike/1630983.html ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Mountain Man
Date Posted: 29-Mar-2013 at 19:37
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I don't expect anything to come of Lil' Kimmie's latest threats. More than likely, he is in a bind and needs a strawdog to focus his subjects' attention on other than himself. As for taking action, that's South Korea's problem. In case no ne here has noticed, the SK's still maintain trade with the North. Not our problem. ------------- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? |
Posted By: JuMong
Date Posted: 30-Mar-2013 at 03:52
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My suggestion to you sir is to leave the world alone. America has become more of a problem than the solution. You have shown nothing but contempt for other people's culture. http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/29/17520371-member-of-seal-team-6-killed-another-seal-injured-in-parachute-accident#comments https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yswMOB8_IAM www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPCchZ10VX0 ------ |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 30-Mar-2013 at 08:01
Yup and we trade with the PRC and the current version of the Sovs. Bl...the DPRK is a rogue nation intent on deliberate, independent and causal-joint, violent actions, directed towards it's neighbors..... and hence then does indeed remain a problem for US vested strategic interests. Response? As noted. Knock em flat and let the PRC rebuild their lackies into a more docile form. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 30-Mar-2013 at 08:04
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''South Korea Warns North of Punishment Should War Declaration Go Beyond Words''
Having declared war...preemptive action is required. http://www.voanews.com/content/koreas-tensions/1631570.html ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 30-Mar-2013 at 10:29
If this is such a horrible country, why are you here. There must be someplace that suits you. America being such a problem and all.
If I found myself in a country that held all but it's own culture in contempt,[kind of like China] I would leave it.
Governments do not create Democracy, the people do.
------------- "Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces". Unknown. |
Posted By: Mountain Man
Date Posted: 30-Mar-2013 at 13:29
So is Iran. Is your solution to flatten every nation that disagrees with us or threatens us? Personally, I agree that some nations should be bombed back into the Stone Age, but how practical is that approach? I repeat - this is South Korea's problem unless and until Li'l Kimmie launches something at us, in which case a new set of rules apply....but wait - would Obama - the man with no backbone - every order a retaliatory strike? No. Moot point in a moot argument. ------------- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 30-Mar-2013 at 14:35
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DPRK was due theirs long ago....you might have forgotten Bonifas and Barrett I haven't. Iran was due theirs in 79. It's never to late; hence the argument or the response, is not moot.
It's been delayed because of chickenshititis. Consequently.....Flatten the mofos and let the PRC dig out the rest. As for every? Nah just after they been told a dozen or so times then: ''Tomahawks away Sir!'' Amen to that.... and may appeasers rot in the bowls of hell. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: yomud
Date Posted: 30-Mar-2013 at 15:17
------------- yomud are free people |
Posted By: JuMong
Date Posted: 30-Mar-2013 at 19:14
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RE Red Clay: We came here because We thought this was a Free Country. Apparently, this is not the case. I'm trying to tell you there are bad people running this country. Would you not agree? Why are there innocent people disappearing in this country just for disagreeing with the government? I have been harassed by this government for the past six years for expressing my opinion. What kind of government is this?
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Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 30-Mar-2013 at 21:09
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Wont answer for him that ole dog been wearing his jock strap a while now.
But I will answer for me. Don't like America? Get the hell out. Cuz I'm tired of wannabes fleeing worse then cracking bad after they been here. I'm tired of anti-Semites, in the closet or out. I'm tired of apologists for the PRC and DPRK, and the Iranians, and Russians. Tech thefts, band space thefts, and personal information thieves one and all. Harbour's and aiders and abettors of Islamist genocidalists terrorists; and nuc weapons proliferation, for agendas that I don't like....ya getting a picture here yet? Here in America exercise freedom of speech all ya like. Whether ya been rejected for your rhetoric is also a freedom of the opposition's to exercise. On this forum you exercise it within the parameters of the Coc. And there is no such thing as democracy on forums. It's what's allowed by ownership and staff. Don't like it? Move on down the road poco, amigo. Because when ya come along, spouting do do and apologia, covert or other, for the aforementioned collaborationists...don't expect a warm and fuzzy. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 30-Mar-2013 at 21:10
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And the whole gawdamn crowd then thundered: " Amen brother". ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Mountain Man
Date Posted: 31-Mar-2013 at 00:27
And the collateral damage? Like South Korea? ------------- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 31-Mar-2013 at 02:49
That ole saw don't cut let alone paddle in white water. You know it and I know it. Cost of business. Before it's thru, expect a 10-15% successful missile launch and strike into Japan, possibly Thailand and the PI. Not to mention possibilities in eastpak. Expect Seoul as a wasteland. Civilian casualties high. Could be as high as 50%. And then, expect every thing 10 m. south of the Yalu to the 'Z'; as nothing more the fill for later road reconstruction. Infra structure, power plants, known mil sites and every port from Chongjin to Wonsan will be leveled. Watch for PRC placements, redistributions and activities further N. But equally so along their border with the DPRK. As when the shitze hits the wind the deluge north will be on. Expect air parity almost immediately; superiority with 96 or less. Watch for increase of allied naval units into the Sea of Japan right now. Same in the E. China Sea up to a line e-w from Weihai to Incheon. They already watching the sub pens @Sanya and Yulin. Col-laterals you ask? Yep.... bound to be there... been that way since Ramesses II went N. on three different Syrian campaigns and finished at Kadesh. Nothings changed. And the ROK has known and accepted this fact viz their situation, as a fact of life. But ask yourself, honestly; when has that ever made a tinkers good goddamn, once the dice are rolled. You been there. So have I. And we both still know it. All of this has been factored in for over 50 years in varying Plans vice the scenario/s. The only difference? Intel and strike assets are way, way, better. Iow. Cut the frickers head off in downtown Pyongyang; Laser and Sat based strikes as noted above and, there's an excellent chance it's over in less then 10. Gives the PRC an opportunity to step up and cut the peace and make like nice guys. If ya can, in the next 30 or less, go heavy in Boeing, Orbital Sciences Corporation, Lockheed Martin and Raytheon. Somebody has to make a profit.....besides tis good capitalism...And we of course will cut huge deals with the ROK on rebuilds as necessary on their behalf and of course fund it. If we fast enough, shouldn't be to bad. But as usual, pre-emptive no matter how sound it is not an option with the current crew. Or the last four for that matter. Unless they, ie. the dumb ass's in Junior II's entourage start warming up missiles pointing east. Then? Even Obama might go first. It must be quick...thorough...and with such finality that no threat is foreseeable less direct PRC interference and promulgation for the next ce. In essence the north must be returned to an agro based society and condition. We of course, as part of the peace, can ensure equipment, seed and fertilizers and agro chems can be provided at low cost. PS. On that last note look into Monsanto DuPont/Pioneer ConAgra Tysons Deer and Co. Cargill Valmont Ind.  ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: JuMong
Date Posted: 31-Mar-2013 at 03:54
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CV, Do you have a soul? Do you believe in God? Do you ever pray for your dead? http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/deputy-north-texas-district-attorney-wife-found-dead-at-home-authorities-investigating/2013/03/31/9eecbc78-99b7-11e2-b5b4-b63027b499de_story.html And I will fan them with a fan in the gates of the land; I will bereave them of children, I will destroy my people, since they return not from their ways. ~Jeremiah 15:7 http://bible.cc/jeremiah/15-7.htm P.S. I am not an apologist for anyone. I only speak in God's name. My work is not done. I will pray for your soul. |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 31-Mar-2013 at 05:41
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First question: Yup.
Second: Absogoddamnlutely. Third: Not just my own....I'm not that big of an asshole. ------------------------ I prefer: Joshua 1:9 King James Version (KJV) 9 Have not I commanded thee? Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee whithersoever thou goest. ------------------------ Reference your PS: 1st Point: 2 Corinthians 14-15 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. ------------------------- James Chp 4 12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another? 2nd Point: You do your business.... I'll do mine. But you can pray till the trumpets blow and the devil dances on a pinhead...but hope is not an effective technique on the modern battlefield. Unless of course.... it's tempered with superior training, discipline, and fire power. Amen. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Mountain Man
Date Posted: 31-Mar-2013 at 11:44
I disagree. Wiping out a friendly ally is not "the cost of doing business". Besides, it doesn't have to be that way. You may not recall but during the Cold War we came up with the neutron bomb, lethal, effective even against people in bunkers, radiation linger time measured in 4 - 6 hours, no fallout and no damage to physical structures, and the range rendered collateral issues moot. For that matter, a few good blasts of EMP would go a long ways towards cooling down Lil' Kimmie. There is also the Chinese issue, which is not something than can be written off as casually as you seem to think. China regards NK as their buffer against the West, much like the old Soviet Union held buffer states in thrall for the same purpose. As much as I agree with you on what should be done, it will not be done by our current president, and I quote you when I say "you know it and I know it." Even when we were locked in futile and losing wars we never had the guts to employ nukes, and it's still that way. With Maobama's overwhelming narcissism he can't tolerate looking bad or not being loved by the masses. And what would his fellow Muslims say? The man doesn't have the stones. He'll posture and prance and primp and preen and then go play some more golf with his buddy Tiger Woods because when the going gets tough, Obie goes on vacation.  ------------- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? |
Posted By: TITAN_
Date Posted: 31-Mar-2013 at 12:17
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This madness has to stop before the line is crossed for good.... WW3 is not an option. ------------- αἰὲν ἀριστεύειν Een aristevin “Ever to Excel“ From Homer's Iliad (8th century BC). Motto of the University of St Andrews (founded 1410), the Edinburgh Academy (founded 1824) and others. |
Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 31-Mar-2013 at 13:30
If you've been harassed for expressing your opinion, I have to ask, what opinions, and just how are you expressing them. Freedom of speech or not, if your going to express an opinion that's unpopular, you've got to expect some knocks.
A line from a Beatles song comes to mind-
"but if you go carring pictures of Chairman Mao you ain't going to make it with anyone"
------------- "Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces". Unknown. |
Posted By: Mountain Man
Date Posted: 31-Mar-2013 at 15:30
Not a sane option, but always a distinct possibility when such weapons are in the hands of madmen. ------------- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 31-Mar-2013 at 16:14
Sure it is. Or I suggest ya get with the PRC, DPRK, the Russians and the Iranians. And advise them.... tone back the rhetoric and support of it. What I don't need, as noted elsewhere, is apologia for their lunacy. Besides this world is due for some change and there isn't enough nuclear weaponry on the planet to bother mother nature. The only ones who fear that; are those who were inclined to allow their egos to think mankind was top of the food chain anyway and we were destroying the planet. So my advice? To apologists and appeasers......knuckle up...get a set... and in the immortal words of the Joker..."This town needs an enema!" Because the wannabes who drift into America, as also noted, fleeing the worse and then pissing in their knickers over rejection of the rhetoric. Evidently didn't get that part about freedom of speech being a two edged sword. You think this is bad recheck your 19th ce American political scene. And for those who would spout scripture....don't test me. Ya'll lose. Amen. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 31-Mar-2013 at 16:39
1. Weapons and employment are related to intent. Neutron bomb or conventional....Machs nichts.... the objective is significant reduction of capability. 2. The ROK knows full well the potential repercussions and will react with a counter ferocity I don't think ya can ken less ya seen their 'rhetoric' lol. I don't recall ya having been there but if so then ya know 'the half breed speaketh with straight tongue.' We would not be solely responsible for destruction on their side...as they would love reunification on their terms...which wont happen....so that horse don't event trot. And they are indeed damn sure prepared to counter DPRK aggression no matter the cost. That's their philosophy independently of the allied one. Been that for a while. Iow. they are not as much the 'suck ass' boys of the DoD and US State Dept. as one is wont to be prepared by the oppo. 3. Who gives a damn what the PRC wants as a buffer. They can have that as a reformed DPRK agro state under PRC leadership. Borders wont change a tinkers damn. Their not concerned with property loss or life of the citizens there. There concerned with a massive influx of folks fleeing the carnage into the Yalu R region north of their border. An already depressed economic region for the Chinese. In the event ain't heard...the PRC don't need, don't want and, will reject massive immigrations of vast majorities of unskilled labor. They got plenty. Options? After the conflict PRC ditchs the hardliners in Pyongyang....turn in the tanks and.... ''And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more'' Isaiah 2:4 DPRK citizenry in rice, maize and wheat fields buffering to the Yalu. That's the idea. Hell the PRC can even open them up as satellite market state to the rest of the region and exploit what's left of the natural resources. Give em a little Chinese version of market capitalism eh. Had we been smart we would have cut a deal after that madman Mao got his and done just that....but it was to late. But alas, unlike many, I don't fear death and besides nobody in DC is listening to me. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 31-Mar-2013 at 17:45
------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: TITAN_
Date Posted: 01-Apr-2013 at 02:11
There is enough weaponry to kill all 7 billion human beings that exist on this planet. ------------- αἰὲν ἀριστεύειν Een aristevin “Ever to Excel“ From Homer's Iliad (8th century BC). Motto of the University of St Andrews (founded 1410), the Edinburgh Academy (founded 1824) and others. |
Posted By: JuMong
Date Posted: 01-Apr-2013 at 04:34
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"Fear vs Faith" There will come a time in life when you will meet a fork in a road. You will be given two options: I have chosen "Faith." I hope you have chosen Faith as well. |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 01-Apr-2013 at 05:00
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Get back on the topic.
CoC VII B 10. prohibits Religious preaching. Whether ya directing it at me or anybody else. Ya wanna talk religion in general or the lack thereof in the DPRK;then take it here: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=44 My fault for responding to your trolling. But no more. Read and heed or sit on the bench. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: JuMong
Date Posted: 01-Apr-2013 at 10:10
Can' help the April's Fool Joke!  ----- North Korea maybe changing it's rhetoric. They are not totally insane. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/01/world/asia/north-korea-vows-to-keep-nuclear-arms-and-fix-economy.html
Does America have a long term solution to the North Korean Problem? |
Posted By: Mountain Man
Date Posted: 01-Apr-2013 at 15:22
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What I don't understand is the complete lack of coverage on the South Korean reaction. Everyone acts like America is the only player in this game. ------------- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? |
Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 01-Apr-2013 at 15:37
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North Korea is First April joke!It's leader is totally insane.Iconography on TV is well known to me.It can be explained with slogan on church bricks in Sofia:God,Tzar,Motherland!Literary it is Fatherland which is absurd!Bulgarian proverb says:There is one Mother!Fathers are many!  |
Posted By: Mountain Man
Date Posted: 01-Apr-2013 at 18:34
Sorry, but I can make no sense whatsoever of your post. ------------- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? |
Posted By: Mountain Man
Date Posted: 01-Apr-2013 at 18:35
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The latest development is the announcement that chinese fighters are patroling along the Chinese/North Korean border, but what their orders are hasn't been stated. Are they there to attack NK, protect China or attack South Korean or American forces \?
------------- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 01-Apr-2013 at 22:50
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Not surprising. They have after all a mutual defense pac.
Keep watching. You might be recalled yet. lol It's not uncommon for them to conduct routine work in the Sea of Japan or E. China. What will be 'uncommon'...... is if they begin flying below the Yalu in Dprk airspace. As to what is in? Unknown...... insufficient data. The other coin is they have clamped down on illegal immigrant workers in the border country and they have also slowed trade and oil supplies south into the Dprk. This is different then 50....much better intel will confirm intentions. And as expected by many, that this is junior2 rattling to ensure position is yet to be determined. What is certain is that the escalation level has increased far beyond anything previous. See: http://freebeacon.com/border-patrol/ ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 01-Apr-2013 at 23:06
At this point the lame stream has no intention of doing anything to promote negative publicity vice the admin...covering just like they did for Syria. otoh. he cant do much more at this point and retain the varnish of non-aggression by the US (his mantra) If ya want news ya got to go to the East Asian sources. http://www.southkoreanews.net/ http://www.1stheadlines.com/southkorea.htm http://www.atimes.com/ http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/ http://japandailypress.com/ ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 01-Apr-2013 at 23:35
Yes, Asphalt.
 ------------- "Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces". Unknown. |
Posted By: TITAN_
Date Posted: 02-Apr-2013 at 02:31
So you want to build some highways for them! ------------- αἰὲν ἀριστεύειν Een aristevin “Ever to Excel“ From Homer's Iliad (8th century BC). Motto of the University of St Andrews (founded 1410), the Edinburgh Academy (founded 1824) and others. |
Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 02-Apr-2013 at 10:52
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No, just one very large parking lot. ------------- "Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces". Unknown. |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 04-Apr-2013 at 19:15
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DPRK moves missile to east coast: S.Korean defense chief
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/world/2013-04/04/c_132284863.htm ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 04-Apr-2013 at 19:29
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Ex-CIA Analyst Expects North Korea to Attack South Korea Before Tensions End
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/ ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 07-Apr-2013 at 19:03
 Is this really such a good idea? Fat-boy Kim seriously needs to go on a diet. ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 07-Apr-2013 at 21:36
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Remember this is the man who believes Dennis Rodman is an actual US Governmental official. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 08-Apr-2013 at 00:21
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...and a man who might beat Chuck Norris!Solution:Send Chuck in Korea! [TUBE]iuxSeasTmso[/TUBE] |
Posted By: TITAN_
Date Posted: 08-Apr-2013 at 09:26
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It's true what they say: Chuck Norris has a secret cousin from India! ------------- αἰὲν ἀριστεύειν Een aristevin “Ever to Excel“ From Homer's Iliad (8th century BC). Motto of the University of St Andrews (founded 1410), the Edinburgh Academy (founded 1824) and others. |
Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 08-Apr-2013 at 10:06
I think they use the same barber.
Thinking further, I wonder what something like an offer to place an NBA franchise in Pyong Yang would effect their attitude.
Or better yet, organize an Asian version of the European B Ball league. We could send our best coaches to help them and insure Lil Kim's team places in the top 5 for a couple years. He'd be happy, and if I'm reading it right, when he's happy, everyone is.
He's young and still has soft spots that will harden as he gets older. Take advantage of the soft spots now, and there will be less tension as he hardens with age.
Sports would allow him to gain the recognition he seeks for NK, without causing a run on antacids and Kaopectate.
 Also, the game with North vs South would likely be a huge revenue producer for both countries.
------------- "Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces". Unknown. |
Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 08-Apr-2013 at 10:37
For that particular trip, how do you know he wasn't? He had to have clearance from State just to cross the boarder. You can bet your sweet that he was thoroughly briefed before he left.
------------- "Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces". Unknown. |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 08-Apr-2013 at 18:21
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http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/06/opinion/kim-dumond-korea
''He did not initiate the trip, accompanied by three members of the Harlem Globetrotters. It was orchestrated by a Brooklyn company called Vice Media as part of a new newsmagazine show on HBO, also called Vice. It seemed clear Rodman knew absolutely nothing about the appalling human-rights record of North Korea.'' http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2013/03/25/going-to-north-korea-was-the-smartest-thing-dennis-rodman-has-ever-done.html Nope twas show and blow. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 08-Apr-2013 at 19:24
------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 09-Apr-2013 at 18:58
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STRAFOR UPDATE
http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/ferocious-weak-and-crazy-north-korean-strategy?utm_source=freelist-f&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20130409&utm_term=NKoreaUpdate&utm_content=readmore2&elq=1caa09bbb51c4e31a3b5ac89af571481 ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 10-Apr-2013 at 20:33
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The North Korean ambassador has left London and foreigners have been warned to stay away http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2306262/North-Korea-embassy-Removal-van-loads-outside-Ealing-semi-secretive-state-based.html - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2306262/North-Korea-embassy-Removal-van-loads-outside-Ealing-semi-secretive-state-based.html ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 11-Apr-2013 at 15:38
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http://www.voanews.com/content/north-korea-renews-threats-geight-condemns-rhetoric/1639363.html
http://www.voanews.com/content/syria-north-korea-lead-g8-talks/1639107.html ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 12-Apr-2013 at 02:34
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Pentagon Report Suggests North Korea Can Arm Missile With Nuke
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/04/12/north-korea-capable-arming-missile-with-nuclear-warhead-according-to-pentagon/ http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/04/11/us-officials-say-n-korea-threats-likely-aimed-at-extracting-aid-concessions/ ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 13-Apr-2013 at 01:19
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Remember Russia and PRC closer again then most recently.
analysis? X+y = joint statement. As once of old. reference currencies and control; resources acquisition(especially fossil fuels); balance of power in regions of interest. distraction and reduction of their opponents abilities to do the same. This is why the dprk and lil kim and the mad mullahs in Iran are allowed to exist. Contrary to all the dumb ass predictions that communistic totalitarianism had gone away. Nope. Merely modified it's appearance, and communications and agenda; to meet the tech advancements of the 21st ce. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 13-Apr-2013 at 21:29
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I don't think the Chinese have any involvement in this. What would they gain by nuking their number one customer?
------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 14-Apr-2013 at 14:50
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Not a question of nuking their no. one loanee. It's a question of what I gave above. If ya rank order them then it's an inescapable conclusion that they and the Russian hardiners; still believe in and... promote a communist totalitarian based oligarchy.
The 'varnish' is new. The plan the same. 'Lil kim' and the 'mad mullahs', tools of usage, in their opposition to democracy and a free market capitalism opponent state or community of nations. Basic stuff here Nick. Review who they have been backing and opposing since 45. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 14-Apr-2013 at 14:55
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As to their involvement?
Don't be naïve. Been that way since 50. Their non-involvement. When they choose to use it to support the above, in toning down their puppet, just as much as their propping up of the Dprk state and their subsistence of it in the first place; is all the evidence ya need. Not involved? Bullshit. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 14-Apr-2013 at 15:10
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It is autocratic regime people!He gathers points as in football&baseball around on playground.Superstar is born!  Get out of play station buttons this little brat.Kindergarten boy. |