Vinca Symbols
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Ancient Mediterranean and Europe
Forum Discription: Greece, Macedon, Rome and other cultures such as Celtic and Germanic tribes
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=32031
Printed Date: 28-Apr-2024 at 02:30
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Vinca Symbols
Posted By: VIncaSymbols
Subject: Vinca Symbols
Date Posted: 12-Jul-2012 at 15:12
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Hi, I wonder if anyone can help me? I'm an amateur historian with a passion for ancient symbolism, and I've been looking at the Vinca culture symbols for a little while now. Recently I may have made a breakthrough which would help confirm what others have said about particular symbols, and shows what some symbols are and their purpose. As I am an amateur, gleaning what research I can from the internet, I have no idea whether what I've found is already common knowledge, so don't want to make a fool of myself proclaiming any great discoveries to academia just yet:) What I'd like to do instead is to talk informally to someone who is involved in research into the Vinca, just to find out what is already known about various aspects of their symbolism. What do forum members suggest I do to continue? |
Replies:
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 12-Jul-2012 at 17:21
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Not my fortay....even though I know the basics and the controversies and theorems posited by Gimbutas. But stick around be patient and others will no doubt opine. Nice to have ya here. CV ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 12-Jul-2012 at 19:09
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The Vinca alphabet, like many other ancient civilisations, has a
swastika. It's thought this was derived from a comet passing
exceptionally close to the earth thousands of years ago http://www.omniglot.com/writing/vinca.htm - http://www.omniglot.com/writing/vinca.htm ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: VIncaSymbols
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2012 at 03:35
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Thanks, though if what I have here is correct, that may not be the case. I know how my post must sound, and I realise that the likelihood of me having actually made some real headway in this is improbable with so many good minds on the subject. So many people post to forums about their pet theories and I'm sure I must seem like yet another:) Although I'm deeply interested in ancient languages of course I have no credibility at all. It's hard to know exactly what to do next, but obviously I'm preparing all the evidence I have available - though really it is self-evident. |
Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2012 at 03:46
Cause I have spent few weeks in Vinca 30 years before just post your theory here! Have i mentioned here wonderful nights spent in Lepenski Vir hotel?!? That was Time of Drama.Once we were Young and Green,now we are Green only! |
Posted By: VIncaSymbols
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2012 at 03:58
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I'd prefer not to at this stage to be honest. There are many reasons for this, but primarily this is something I've come across literally in the last two days and so I'm still in the process of going back over everything I have to see if it pans out. I'd also like to continue exploring for myself, as right or wrong, I can't deny that I haven't felt this excited for years:) |
Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2012 at 06:14
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Let the Force be with You than!
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Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2012 at 15:04
I think there are very few and isolated discoveries with these signs and there is no proof that it was an alphabet, maybe just some decorative intentions. Also, there is no proof that the use of these signs continued later. Swastika is a decdorative sign used in almost all cultures. For example, this is a Cucuteni pot. The well documented and studied Cucuteni culture (5-4th millenia BCE) didn't use writing.  -------------  |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2012 at 19:15
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Here's a map of the Vinca civilisation which also includes parts of Hungary and Yugoslavia: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zKFFOoPlyjIC&lpg=PA271&dq=vinca&pg=PA23#v=onepage&q&f=false - http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zKFFOoPlyjIC&lpg=PA271&dq=vinca&pg=PA23#v=onepage&q&f=false ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: VIncaSymbols
Date Posted: 19-Jul-2012 at 06:28
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It's now looking more and more likely that what I have is accurate, so I'm currently writing a paper on it all to submit to the Bulgarian and other museums. I must admit to being a quite cynical person, but even I'm beginning to be overwhelmed with certainty - a dangerous thing in archaeology:) It's one of those silly thing that you don't realise how obvious it is until well, you've realised how obvious it is. As I say above, I'm an amateur, so even beginning to assume that I have a meaning of the Tartalaka set and the origin of many other previously unknown symbols is a bit odd to say the least. What interests me just as much is how it illustrates the nature of the civilisation and its motivation. Fascinating stuff if it's true, but we'll see. |
Posted By: benzin
Date Posted: 19-Jul-2012 at 11:04
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Its Tatárlaka and not Tartalaka first of all. You have to know that the findings of Tatarlaka, the symbols in the clay may be fake. The archeologist got them from one of his workers, they were unburn clay, and they burnt it. Therefore its age is impossible to find out, also its originality. Of course they may be original, but because of these reasons its doubted by many.
If you think you found out something interesting let us know. I know some historicians I can ask if its worth to. |
Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 19-Jul-2012 at 11:26
I don't know where you obtained that information, but it's false. There are many examples of these symbols on tablets. This smells of deliberate misinformation by someone. They perhaps have an agenda of there own.
Benzin, could you provide us with a source for this info.
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Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 19-Jul-2012 at 15:04
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Oh tis interesting stuff....but whether it's a religion of the ancients has yet to be definitely established...and that apparently is the most recent fad associated. See the links: http://www.vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=44816 - http://www.vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=44816 http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Vinca_culture - http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Vinca_culture Appears to predate more noted to include the writing of the early Vedic, Sumer and others.
------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: benzin
Date Posted: 19-Jul-2012 at 19:46
Sure. You can read about it in english here : http://www.prehistory.it/ftp/tartaria_tablets/tartaria_tablets_10.htm The tartaria tablets found when there were no archeologist around, in a pit wich was already searched before, it was the closing of that day's search. A restorer baked the tablets in an electric oven after that !! so, even if there is a lot wich is clearly original the ones at tartaria is not 100% sure. I may accept that they are not fakes, but how can we be sure after knowing the circumstances. Still dont believe me ? |
Posted By: VIncaSymbols
Date Posted: 29-Jul-2012 at 03:38
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As I'm digging deeper into external sources I'm finding more references to the commonly found symbol V III with some saying that it's meaning is now known. Does anyone here have information on its decipherment? |
Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 29-Jul-2012 at 04:30
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V=Co could be palm digits number which is 5 still(even if is rotated),III is God=BoGo=Spiritual Body!As I told you before I am working with Ancient Egyptian now. P.S. Only God can walk arisen everywhere:I I I(The First Her)On Earth-Beneath the surface-On Heaven!GoSPoDa=Master's sign is ///(Mother's on Earth/beneath it/on Heaven) pushed down in front of God!!! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 04-Aug-2012 at 19:12
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[QUOTE=medenaywe]V=Co could be palm digits number which is 5 still,III is God=BoGo=Spiritual Body!As I told you before I am working with Ancient Egyptian now. P.S. Only Gods can walk arisen everywhere:I I IOn Earth-Beneath the surface-On Heaven!GoSPoDa=Master's sign is /// pushed down in front of God!!! [/QUOTE So you're saying the Vinca saw themselves as "God's people"? ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 04-Aug-2012 at 20:09
Vlassa, the one who discovred them, was an archaeologist.
They have been dated (or the archaeological environment they were found in) with C14 and found to be 7300 years old. And what purpose could have Vlassa to falsificate these tablets? He initially even didn't know how old they are or what they represent. I've read more about the Vinca signs and it seems it was a primitive form of writing, although not phonetic, only symbolic. ------------- |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 04-Aug-2012 at 21:05
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First discovered by Torma in 1875 at Turdas. Vasic then found more in Vinca in 1908. Vlassa gets credit for the tablets at Tartaria in 1961 and re-stimulating the interest. More at the links: http://arxiv.org/html/math.HO/0309157 - http://arxiv.org/html/math.HO/0309157 http://www.prehistory.it/ftp/winn.htm - http://www.prehistory.it/ftp/winn.htm ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 27-Nov-2013 at 09:09
I suppose Egyptian kids learned to write,were Vinca symbols...
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Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 27-Nov-2013 at 12:11
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I don't know about that Med. But after re reading this, I do know that Benzin is wrong. First off, the Ceramic terminology for firing isn't baked or cooked, it's "Fired". Also it's a Kiln, not an oven.
If the tablets were indeed unfired or raw clay, I very much doubt they would have survived the years. It's more likely that they were fired at a very low temp, for a short time. The extreme age and exposure to ground moisture would have destabilized the clay surface.
Restorers now have other options, but firing in an electric kiln was, and still is, an accepted technique to stabilize clay artifacts. An electric kiln does not introduce fuel to the kiln atmosphere, so there isn't contamination from outside carbon sources . It also does not interfere with dating, as dating is best done on the strata the artifact was found in. Dating a clay artifact from the artifact itself is difficult at best, as you would be looking for inbedded charcoal, to give a C14 date, and might destroy the object you wished to date.
If it's the symbols that are in question, any ceramic chemist could tell if the symbols were added recently, fired or unfired.
A note-
It takes a special personality to be a professional ceramic restorer, something like that of a diamond cutter. If you screw up, there isn't anything like being able to order up a replacement from E bay.
It takes absolute confidence in your knowledge and your craft. And above average testicular stature.
------------- "Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces". Unknown. |
Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 27-Nov-2013 at 23:17
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Maybe clay tablets suffered the natural fire?!?!?Ancient children wrote on clay tablets with
chalk&charcoal.
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Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 28-Nov-2013 at 00:28
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It's possible. As long as the temp. was above 600 F. It's got to be at least that to drive off the chemical water. The climate and soil type probably played a big part in the preservation also.
------------- "Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces". Unknown. |
Posted By: reitia
Date Posted: 04-Dec-2014 at 02:13
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Hello,
Concerning the Vinça symbols: I am a researcher specializing in prehistory and ancient history. For several years I've been studying the so-called Vinça-Tordos culture, as well as other, similar ancient civilizations of the Balkans and the Danube. After considerable research, I have come to the conclusion that the Vinça symbols actually represent a syllabic script. This linear form of proto-writing would be the first ever created by man, unless we consider the sporadic Palaeolithic signs and symbols to also be remnants of a formal script. If you wish, I can send you further information. |