General World History: WTF do they learn at school

Print Page | Close Window

WTF do they learn at school

Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: General History
Forum Name: General World History
Forum Discription: All aspects of world history, especially topics that span across many regions or periods
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3142
Printed Date: 28-Apr-2024 at 10:55
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com

Topic: WTF do they learn at school

Posted By: Exarchus
Subject: WTF do they learn at school
Date Posted: 26-Apr-2005 at 14:21

Aren't you guys pissed off at those people who claim the Holy Roman Empire as an Italian one? It really piss me off to see those.

Aside of the ranting first part, I would like you to post your view on the Holy Roman Empire, I have mine.

To me, it was a sort of German Imperial Confederation, but I don't really consider the one of Charlemagne as the Holy Roman Empire. I would rather use Carolingian Empire or Frankish Empire to define it. For me, the Holy Roman Empire really started by Otton I IMO.

-------------
Vae victis!

Replies:

Posted By: Temujin
Date Posted: 26-Apr-2005 at 17:16

heh, never heard that claim...

for me, the Holy Roman Empire can be divided into 2 general periods, further subdivided into more. those 2 general periods were the unified Empires 800 to mid 1200s (end of Hohenstauffen rule), which is further subdivided into the Frankish and the German periods. and the second general period, the period of fragmentation (Interregnum onwards) which i subdivide into three smaller periods, the first from Interregnum to the Augsburg religious peace (loss of central authority), the second from the Augsburg religious peace until the westphalian peace 1648 (loss of religious unity), and the third from 1648 to the end 1806 (loss of political unity).

-------------

Posted By: Berosus
Date Posted: 27-Apr-2005 at 07:03

I agree with Temujin's assessment of the Empire after 1250. For the earlier part, keep in mind that there was an interregnum of sorts between Charlemagne and Otto I. Charlemagne's original Holy Roman Empire went to pieces a generation after his death, and when the Pope decided to bring back the title of Holy Roman Emperor for the king of Germany (Otto I at this stage), even most of the pieces were gone; I think France was the only country at this point that still had a Carolingian monarch.

Voltaire said it all when he asked how anyone could describe the HRE as holy, Roman, or an empire.

-------------
Nothing truly great is achieved through moderation.--Prof. M.A.R. Barker

Posted By: Quetzalcoatl
Date Posted: 27-Apr-2005 at 07:08

I believe the HRE is not equivalent to the Frankish empire, the Frankish empire would include Francia occidentalis and the HRE plus other territories. It should be clear that Charlemagne was the emperor of the HRE but king of the Franks. The analogy to this was Kaiser Wilhelm II being king of Prussia but emperor of Germany.

-------------

Posted By: Quetzalcoatl
Date Posted: 27-Apr-2005 at 07:13

Didn't someone post a joke about the HRE, it was not roman, neither holy nor an empire. Hehehehe.

-------------