The Worst Pope
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Medieval Europe
Forum Discription: The Middle Ages: AD 500-1500
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30836
Printed Date: 25-Apr-2024 at 08:57
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Topic: The Worst Pope
Posted By: Nick1986
Subject: The Worst Pope
Date Posted: 26-Dec-2011 at 20:47
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While St Peter more than earned the right to call himself pope as the father of Catholicism, later Bishops of Rome abused their powers. Their crimes included fornication, buggery, murder, war, genocide, adultery and nepotism. Some popes, like Leo X, were so corrupt they were branded the Antichrist. Other candidates include John XII, Benedict IX, Paul II, Boniface VIII, Clement VI, Urban II, Julius III, Stephen VI, Sergius III, and Alexander VI, but who was the all-time worst? ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Replies:
Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 26-Dec-2011 at 21:17
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Well, as humans go, power corrupts respectively to it's degree. I would say, forget the sexual "crimes", that's just normal human behavior; nepotism is not as bad, everyone tries to take care of their family, so this is not so bad. Financial corruption and genocide is what I consider really bad, and worse coming from people that were supposed to protect everyone they were in charge for, not to destroy people or use their financial power or self-gratification. I'll say - the Pope who was the most involved in financial corruption and genocide, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to know who was the pope most guilty of those crimes. ------------- |
Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 27-Dec-2011 at 16:29
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top list of surrealism: http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-worst-popes-in-history.php - http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-worst-popes-in-history.php |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 27-Dec-2011 at 21:28
 Pius XII's views, while not uncommon for the medieval era, are particularly shocking as he became Bishop of Rome during the 20th century. He believed the Jews should be exterminated (preferably by burning), supported the Nazi regime, and sheltered war criminals from the Allies ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 30-Dec-2011 at 19:47
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Urban II was the pope who ordered the Crusades and the reason why modern Islamists hate Christians. Thousands were butchered by fanatics who had been promised a place in heaven if they killed the infidels
------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: unclefred
Date Posted: 31-Dec-2011 at 12:04
I like their choice of Alexander VI Borgia. “Now we are in the power of a wolf, the most rapacious perhaps that this world has ever seen. And if we do not flee, he will inevitably devour us all".
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Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 31-Dec-2011 at 14:00
| Yes,she-wolf has had lot of children from the very beginning as could be seen here Uncle!Have you seen serial about Borgia's on TV screen?I can compare this man with top alpha males beast on Animal planet only!God was in his pants,you could see that from it. |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 01-Jan-2012 at 21:56
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I haven't seen the series, but contemporary writers like Foxe also described the pope as a ravenous wolf gorging himself on the blood of Protestant lambs. No doubt about it, absolute power leads to corruption ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 02-Jan-2012 at 07:46
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Pope Julius II had been a great rival to Alexander IV, Borgia, and really hated him with a vengeance. So much so that when becoming Pope after the death of Alexander IV, had Alexander's servants tortured to have them tell him what he wanted to hear. The majority of what is know of the Borgias misbehaviour is down to what Julius has spread, that and those things from other enemies of the Borgias. This is not to say they were saints, but it could be a good indication that maybe they weren't that much different than other people taking the office at that time. ------------- What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture. |
Posted By: Alexius
Date Posted: 04-Jan-2012 at 09:30
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Stephen VI had the body of his predecessor Formosus exhumed, tried and found guilty in the Cadaver Synod. His corpse was found guilty, was stripped of his papal clothing and the three fingers of his right hand were cut off (the hand used for benedictions)... Granted, it was the 9th century (the Iron Century) and Stephen was under some political pressure, but still... |
Posted By: eurokiller
Date Posted: 21-Feb-2012 at 23:02
| Urban II |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 08-Mar-2012 at 21:11
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Alexander II might be another possible candidate. He supported William the Bastard's invasion of England and called for the genocide of the Moors in Spain
------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Leroy
Date Posted: 28-Mar-2012 at 06:01
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Hi Nick, I'm not sure who was the worst pope morally speaking, but the most scandalous or controversial was probably the Renaissance Borgia pope. He had many mistresses and fathered five(?) children as a cardinal. He seemed to have been mostly concerned with personal power and wealth. During the Renaissance however the papacy was seen more as an office of power than a religious calling, so we shouldn't judge him too hard. What is your source for the claim that Pius wanted Jews exterminated? I've read a little about Pius XII and some of his own writings. I've not read any thing in his writings that can be interpreted as anti-Semitic. Your claim also conflicts with the fact that he personally ordered Rome's convents, schools, and churches to open their doors to the Roman Jews, saving some 6000 of them from deportation. He also saved hunderds of thousands Hungarian, Romanian, and Slovakian Jews. The pope send a telegram in 1944 to admiral Horthy, urging him to stop the deportations of Hungarians Jews, and within a few days Horthy ordered that all deportations should cease. In 1943, he wrote himself this letter of protest to the Slovakian government: The Holy See has always entertained the firm hope that the Slovak government ... would never proceed with the forcible removal of persons belonging to the Jewish race. It is therefore with great pain that the Holy See has learned of the continued transfers of such a nature from the territory of the Republic. This pain is aggravated further now that it appears ... that the Slovak government intends to proceed with the total removal of the Jewish residents of Slovakia, not even sparing women and children. The Holy See would fail in its Divine Mandate if it did not deplore these measures, which gravely damage man in his natural right, merely for the reason that these people belong to a certain race. The official papal protests by Pius were important factors in stopping the deportations in Slovakia. After the war he was greatly praised by the Jewish community, including Golda Meir who became Israel's prime minister. You should read The Myth of Hitler's Pope by Rabbi Dalin. |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 28-Mar-2012 at 18:22
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Daniel Goldhagen's book "a moral reckoning" provides a detailed description of Pius' antisemitism. Sadly, it's not available online, but this website has a few relevent quotes: http://jiw.blogspot.co.uk/2010/03/pope-pius-xii-anti-semite-and-moral.html - http://jiw.blogspot.co.uk/2010/03/pope-pius-xii-anti-semite-and-moral.html ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 28-Mar-2012 at 18:30
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Still no consensus and still great controversy with feelings on all sides yet smoldering. See: Pius XII and the Jews: Greatness dishonored http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=1064 - http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=1064
------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 29-Mar-2012 at 19:33
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A controversial topic, that's for sure. Some people praise him for saving Jews from the Nazis, though personally i think he could have done a lot more
------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Toltec
Date Posted: 29-Mar-2012 at 20:37
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John Paul the II, covered up child rapes by his priests, supported far right wing death squads in Latin America and killed hundreds of millions of African by lies about condoms. ------------- Stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out? http://historyplanet.wordpress.com - History Planet Website <br / |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 30-Mar-2012 at 18:48
John Paul can't be held responsible for things like child abuse as it has plagued the Catholic Church ever since celibacy was made mandatory by Gregory VII. Pope Paul II apparently died of a heart attack while performing a sex act on a boy and his successor Sixtus IV rewarded male lovers with benefices and gifts ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 13-Mar-2013 at 19:53
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John XV, the son of a priest from Rome, was the first pope to be branded the antichrist for his corruption and nepotism. He was very unpopular, but to his credit he was the patron of the Benedictines of Cluny Abbey ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: lirelou
Date Posted: 13-Mar-2013 at 22:38
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Toltec, in re this: "supported far right wing death squads in Latin America" Can we have anything more specific than this? I'm sure Bishop Romero, wherever his soul rests, would be interested in hearing how a pope did this. ------------- Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá gì |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 13-Mar-2013 at 23:09
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Actually what objectively can be said is he and, his principal spokesman, the now retired Pope, did not support the then prevalent Liberation Theology wing of the RCC in S. and C. America. He viewed it , and perhaps properly so, as Marxism hiding within the church, which led directly to the adoption of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. Consequently the original intention of identifying and recognising the social and governmental system inequality and social justice reforms id' as a necessity for the poor; by it's founding various father's and exponents, while remaining popular, yet remains at odds with the established orthodoxy of the Church's position. And given his anti-Marxist and fascist rejection background...not unsurprising. Conversely it is now the intellectual, liberal socialist or socialist secularist, who wishes to either arbitrarily disdain the church's official position in developing doctrine and or who now would castigate the same. That also is not surprising. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 16-Mar-2013 at 16:11
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Pope Francis sounds like a real jerk. Not only does he claim the Falklands belong to Argentina (in violation of the islanders' right to self-determination), but he's shockingly sympathetic to pedophiles. Harming a child is unforgivable, regardless of what happened in the abuser's past (there are many abuse survivors who live normal lives as good parents): http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2294292/Paedophilia-illness-NOT-crime-says-cardinal-just-days-papal-conclave.html - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2294292/Paedophilia-illness-NOT-crime-says-cardinal-just-days-papal-conclave.html ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 16-Mar-2013 at 23:41
A South African cardinal who helped elect Pope Francis has described paedophilia as a psychological illness and not 'a criminal condition'. The Catholic Archbishop of Durban, Wilfrid Fox Napier, told BBC Radio 5 live that people who were abused as children and became paedophiles were not criminally responsible for their actions in the same way as somebody 'who chooses to do something like that'. Cardinal Napier, who was among the 115 cardinals in the conclave at the Vatican that elected Pope Francis earlier this week, called paedophilia a 'psychological disorder. *************************************************************** I read your source three times. No one is ascribing those remarks to the new Pope. The Head line confirms this: Paedophilia is an illness NOT a crime, says cardinal just days after papal conclave Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2294292/Paedophilia-illness-NOT-crime-says-cardinal-just-days-papal-conclave.html#ixzz2Nlfplf4q - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2294292/Paedophilia-illness-NOT-crime-says-cardinal-just-days-papal-conclave.html#ixzz2Nlfplf4q Follow us: http://ec.tynt.com/b/rw?id=bBOTTqvd0r3Pooab7jrHcU&u=MailOnline - - DailyMail on Facebook My question is... why then..... the unsubstantiated slur on the new Pope? The associated reference to the Pope is that this Cardinal apparently supported his election as he apparently supported his predecessor. Benedict clearly did have unresolved issues in dealing with pedophilic priests. On what basis then is the nexus of an alleged sympathetic apologia on Francis's part? I don't see it. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 17-Mar-2013 at 19:42
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My mistake, though I still don't like the man.
------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 17-Mar-2013 at 23:49
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A noble heart. Often...I'm guilty of a misinterpretation. Often. On Behalf of of my regiment..who cares a shirt less of your particular theological peccadilloes any more then mine...wee promote you Corporal. US Cavalry. Title Ten USC. Undersigned Commanding. Your honor is mine. Best LW Jensen Captain US Army Ret. 5Th US Cavalry 'Black Knights' ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 03-Dec-2013 at 22:52
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Since most of the Popes listed are fake, there still exists numerous rouges that could be called the "Worst", but that is merely an example of "Ultimate Power Corrupts!"
Thus I nominate Pope Leo X as the most "Despicable Me!" Regards, Ron ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: Maddison
Date Posted: 23-May-2014 at 16:49
You are right about Julius II, he had real old attitude problem with the Borgias : "I will not live in the same rooms as the Borgias lived. He [Alexander VI] desecrated the Holy Church as none before. He usurped the papal power by the devil's aid, and I forbid under the pain of excommunication anyone to speak or think of Borgia again. His name and memory must be forgotten. It must be crossed out of every document and memorial. His reign must be obliterated. All paintings made of the Borgias or for them must be covered over with black crepe. All the tombs of the Borgias must be opened and their bodies sent back to where they belong - to Spain." ------------- Denial isn't just a river in Africa |
Posted By: nickherc
Date Posted: 22-Nov-2014 at 16:01
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Borgia knew how to have fun. Joking on the side, I don't think he was such a bad pope and a lot of things, that were written about him after his death are probably a bit of exegerated. As for the worst pope? None of them were particulary good. |
Posted By: LeopoldPhilippe
Date Posted: 07-Jun-2015 at 20:38
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I shall say Pope Alexander VI. He was the Pontiff from 1492 to 1503.
When low on finances, Alexander established new cardinals in return for payments. Sometimes he falsely charged wealthy people and then stole their money. |