Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

The Worst Pope

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Nick1986 View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar
Mighty Slayer of Trolls

Joined: 22-Mar-2011
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7940
  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Worst Pope
    Posted: 26-Dec-2011 at 20:47
While St Peter more than earned the right to call himself pope as the father of Catholicism, later Bishops of Rome abused their powers. Their crimes included fornication, buggery, murder, war, genocide, adultery and nepotism. Some popes, like Leo X, were so corrupt they were branded the Antichrist. Other candidates include John XII, Benedict IX, Paul II, Boniface VIII, Clement VI, Urban II, Julius III, Stephen VI, Sergius III, and Alexander VI, but who was the all-time worst?
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
Back to Top
Don Quixote View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar

Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 29-Dec-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4735
  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Dec-2011 at 21:17
Well, as humans go, power corrupts respectively to it's degree. I would say, forget the sexual "crimes", that's just normal human behavior; nepotism is not as bad, everyone tries to take care of their family, so this is not so bad. Financial corruption and genocide is what I consider really bad, and worse coming from people that were supposed to protect everyone they were in charge for, not to destroy people or use their financial power or self-gratification. I'll  say - the Pope who was the most involved in financial corruption and genocide, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to know who was the pope most guilty of those crimes.
Back to Top
medenaywe View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar
Master of Meanings

Joined: 06-Nov-2010
Location: /
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 15487
  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Dec-2011 at 16:29
Back to Top
Nick1986 View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar
Mighty Slayer of Trolls

Joined: 22-Mar-2011
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7940
  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Dec-2011 at 21:28

Pius XII's views, while not uncommon for the medieval era, are particularly shocking as he became Bishop of Rome during the 20th century. He believed the Jews should be exterminated (preferably by burning), supported the Nazi regime, and sheltered war criminals from the Allies
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
Back to Top
Nick1986 View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar
Mighty Slayer of Trolls

Joined: 22-Mar-2011
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7940
  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2011 at 19:47
Urban II was the pope who ordered the Crusades and the reason why modern Islamists hate Christians. Thousands were butchered by fanatics who had been promised a place in heaven if they killed the infidels
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
Back to Top
unclefred View Drop Down
Consul
Consul

Suspended, Historum joker

Joined: 09-Dec-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 337
  Quote unclefred Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Dec-2011 at 12:04
Originally posted by medenaywe

top list of surrealism:
http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-worst-popes-in-history.php 
I like their choice of Alexander VI Borgia.
 
“Now we are in the power of a wolf, the most rapacious perhaps that this world has ever seen. And if we do not flee, he will inevitably devour us all".

Back to Top
medenaywe View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar
Master of Meanings

Joined: 06-Nov-2010
Location: /
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 15487
  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Dec-2011 at 14:00
Yes,she-wolf has had lot of children from the very beginning as could be seen here Uncle!Have you seen serial about Borgia's on TV screen?I can compare this man with top alpha males beast on Animal planet only!God was in his pants,you could see that from it.  
Back to Top
Nick1986 View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar
Mighty Slayer of Trolls

Joined: 22-Mar-2011
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7940
  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jan-2012 at 21:56
I haven't seen the series, but contemporary writers like Foxe also described the pope as a ravenous wolf gorging himself on the blood of Protestant lambs. No doubt about it, absolute power leads to corruption
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
Back to Top
TheAlaniDragonRising View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar
Spam Fighter

Joined: 09-May-2011
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6076
  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jan-2012 at 07:46
Pope Julius II had been a great rival to Alexander IV, Borgia, and really hated him with a vengeance. So much so that when becoming Pope after the death of Alexander IV, had Alexander's servants tortured to have them tell him what he wanted to hear. The majority of what is know of the Borgias misbehaviour is down to what Julius has spread, that and those things from other enemies of the Borgias. This is not to say they were saints, but it could be a good indication that maybe they weren't that much different than other people taking the office at that time. 
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.
Back to Top
Alexius View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 01-Dec-2011
Location: Belgium
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7
  Quote Alexius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jan-2012 at 09:30

Stephen VI had the body of his predecessor Formosus exhumed, tried and found guilty in the Cadaver Synod. His corpse was found guilty, was stripped of his papal clothing and the three fingers of his right hand were cut off (the hand used for benedictions)... Granted, it was the 9th century (the Iron Century) and Stephen was under some political pressure, but still...

Back to Top
eurokiller View Drop Down
Janissary
Janissary


Joined: 16-Feb-2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17
  Quote eurokiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Feb-2012 at 23:02
Urban II
Back to Top
Nick1986 View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar
Mighty Slayer of Trolls

Joined: 22-Mar-2011
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7940
  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Mar-2012 at 21:11
Alexander II might be another possible candidate. He supported William the Bastard's invasion of England and called for the genocide of the Moors in Spain
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
Back to Top
Leroy View Drop Down
Knight
Knight


Joined: 27-Mar-2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 64
  Quote Leroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Mar-2012 at 06:01
Hi Nick,

I'm not sure who was the worst pope morally speaking, but the most scandalous or controversial was probably the Renaissance Borgia pope. He had many mistresses and fathered five(?) children as a cardinal. He seemed to have been mostly concerned with personal power and wealth. During the Renaissance however the papacy was seen more as an office of power than a religious calling, so we shouldn't judge him too hard.

What is your source for the claim that Pius wanted Jews exterminated?

I've read a little about Pius XII and some of his own writings. I've not read any thing in his writings that can be interpreted as anti-Semitic. Your claim also conflicts with the fact that he personally ordered Rome's convents, schools, and churches to open their doors to the Roman Jews, saving some 6000 of them from deportation. He also saved hunderds of thousands Hungarian, Romanian, and Slovakian Jews. The pope send a telegram in 1944 to admiral Horthy, urging him to stop the deportations of Hungarians Jews, and within a few days Horthy ordered that all deportations should cease. In 1943, he wrote himself this letter of protest to the Slovakian government:

The Holy See has always entertained the firm hope that the Slovak government ... would never proceed with the forcible removal of persons belonging to the Jewish race. It is therefore with great pain that the Holy See has learned of the continued transfers of such a nature from the territory of the Republic. This pain is aggravated further now that it appears ... that the Slovak government intends to proceed with the total removal of the Jewish residents of Slovakia, not even sparing women and children. The Holy See would fail in its Divine Mandate if it did not deplore these measures, which gravely damage man in his natural right, merely for the reason that these people belong to a certain race.

The official papal protests by Pius were important factors in stopping the deportations in Slovakia. After the war he was greatly praised by the Jewish community, including Golda Meir who became Israel's prime minister.

You should read The Myth of Hitler's Pope by Rabbi Dalin.
Back to Top
Nick1986 View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar
Mighty Slayer of Trolls

Joined: 22-Mar-2011
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7940
  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Mar-2012 at 18:22
Daniel Goldhagen's book "a moral reckoning" provides a detailed description of Pius' antisemitism. Sadly, it's not available online, but this website has a few relevent quotes:
http://jiw.blogspot.co.uk/2010/03/pope-pius-xii-anti-semite-and-moral.html
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
Back to Top
Centrix Vigilis View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar

Joined: 18-Aug-2006
Location: The Llano
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7392
  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Mar-2012 at 18:30
Still no consensus and still great controversy with feelings on all sides yet smoldering.
 
See: Pius XII and the Jews: Greatness dishonored
 


Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 28-Mar-2012 at 18:30
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

Back to Top
Nick1986 View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar
Mighty Slayer of Trolls

Joined: 22-Mar-2011
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7940
  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Mar-2012 at 19:33
A controversial topic, that's for sure. Some people praise him for saving Jews from the Nazis, though personally i think he could have done a lot more
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
Back to Top
Toltec View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Shape Shifter

Joined: 12-May-2011
Location: Hyperborea
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1748
  Quote Toltec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Mar-2012 at 20:37
John Paul the II, covered up child rapes by his priests, supported far right wing death squads in Latin America and killed hundreds of millions of African by lies about condoms.
Stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?

History Planet Website
<br /
Back to Top
Nick1986 View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar
Mighty Slayer of Trolls

Joined: 22-Mar-2011
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7940
  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Mar-2012 at 18:48
Originally posted by Toltec

John Paul the II, covered up child rapes by his priests, supported far right wing death squads in Latin America and killed hundreds of millions of African by lies about condoms.

John Paul can't be held responsible for things like child abuse as it has plagued the Catholic Church ever since celibacy was made mandatory by Gregory VII. Pope Paul II apparently died of a heart attack while performing a sex act on a boy and his successor Sixtus IV rewarded male lovers with benefices and gifts
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
Back to Top
Nick1986 View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar
Mighty Slayer of Trolls

Joined: 22-Mar-2011
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7940
  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Mar-2013 at 19:53
John XV, the son of a priest from Rome, was the first pope to be branded the antichrist for his corruption and nepotism. He was very unpopular, but to his credit he was the patron of the Benedictines of Cluny Abbey
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
Back to Top
lirelou View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 26-Mar-2009
Location: Tampa, FL
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 528
  Quote lirelou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Mar-2013 at 22:38
Toltec, in re this:  "supported far right wing death squads in Latin America"  Can we have anything more specific than this? I'm sure Bishop Romero, wherever his soul rests, would be interested in hearing how a pope did this.
Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá gì
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.172 seconds.