I wonder to know the origin of pomak people who are they? According to me there are two important data for pomaks. One of is they seem like slavic people(physically) one of is they speak a kind of slavic tongue but they have got turkish traditions and most of all are muslims. Lets discuss  meanwhile im a pomak

They were crack http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javelin - javelinmen and the elite unit of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_the_Great - Alexander's light infantry, who fought under the command of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attalus_%28general%29 - Attalus . They carried a bundle of javelins into battle and wore no armor, perhaps not even a shield. Alexander made heavy use of them: indeed, every time he dispatched a flying column the Agrianians were always included. They were supplied by the http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Client_king&action=edit - client king http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langarus - Langarus . They were expert fighters in mountainous terrain where the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phalanx - phalanx was obsolete. Being the elite unit of the light infantry they often took their place with the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypaspists - hypaspists battalion and the companion cavalry at the right wing of the army. At the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gaugamela - battle of Gaugamela their numerical strength was 1000.

we make cross examination pomaks have got slavic specialities ! what a rubbish assertion! pomaks are not greek!!!  we interrogate slavs and islam

im sure that pomaks havent got greek specialities. i feel my self half bulgarian and half turkish. race=as like as slavic, religion=as like as turkish. My family are from ''PLOVDIV" im 4th generation in turkey and still i use pomak tongue as my second language at least between my family. I see many turkish words in pomak tongue on greek based websites about pomaks. For example counting numbers as like as turkish bu we never use turkish counting numbers and more like that in real pomak tongue. I have got a claim that pomaks who live in greece are generally mix with turks source of turkish word usage belongs to this mixture(pomak-turk) But pomaks in bulgaria are pure than greece.

Yes, you are right more or less. except maybe that Bulgars came from Central Asia -- /this is challenged nowadays (the most far East Bulgarian settlement is known to be in Caucassus).

We can ask pomak35 about this. If he stops loughing at us and be so kind to share with us some information about his ethnos (nation, group -- whatever) it will be interesting for many people here.

Arber I suppose as a Balkanian you know some local history. Why does the fact of not having a clear ethnic identity seem strange to you, haven't you ever heard about the slavic-speaking population in  today Fyrom in the early 20th century and later? I've heard from a Pomak answering to a question about his ethnicity to say that i'm neither bulgarian,nor greek nor turk and that his ethicity is islam and it depends on who give them the most. Pomaks are very tall,blond,blue-eyed,whiteskined and the majority of Greeks aren't.

Send me the photo in PM

Arber because you asked i'll sayaccording to my opinion how do the two nations can be distinguished.

The British specialist in Balkan minority-studies Hugh Poulton writes: 'The Bulgarian Muslims (i.e. the Pomaks) are a religious minority. They are Slavic Bulgarians who speak Bulgarian as their mother tongue, but whose religion and customs are Islamic.' (Poulton 1994:111)

Read the full text here: http://www-gewi.kfunigraz.ac.at/csbsc/ulf/pomak_identities.htm - http://www-gewi.kfunigraz.ac.at/csbsc/ulf/pomak_identities.h tm

It is important to be marked the fact, that THE ONLY DIFFERENCE between the pomak - bulgarians and the other bulgarians is their religion. In the old historical sources are preserved many pieces of information about the time and the methods of the forcible coversion to mohammedanism of these AUTHENTIC BULGARIANS.

The older pomaks call the christian bulgarians "kaur" which comes from Turkish "gâvur" (infidel). In Pomak dialects there is no word for "Bulgarian". So - those people don't have a sense of ethnic, but just religious difference with christian bulgarians.

Pomaks--a term that loosely translates as collaborators- -were the descendants of ethnic Bulgarians who accepted the Islamic faith during Ottoman rule, mostly between the sixteenth and eighteenth centuries. In 1990 about 150,000 Pomaks lived in mountain villages in southern and southwestern Bulgaria. They were chiefly employed in agriculture, forestry, and mining. Because of their relative isolation in the mountains, the Pomaks did not become mixed with the Turks during the turkish rule, and because of that, one big part of them were not assimilated from the turks, and they retained their bulgarian physical features. Because the Ottoman Turks showed little interest in Pomak lands, and because the Pomaks were converted rather late, most of their traditional Bulgarian customs remained intact. Thus, for example, the Pomaks never learned to speak Turkish.

AND MORE(IN ENGLISH):

The covercion to mohammedanism was not only "with sword". The other factor "was the economic pressure and the temptation of privileges and tax reductions received for adopting Islam" - this is one characteristic feature of the Turkish Empire.

Read more here: http://www.coronetbooks.com/books/moha8413.htm - http://www.coronetbooks.com/books/moha8413.htm

Also read this:

Muslim Bulgarians

Muslim Bulgarians (also Bulgarian Mohammedans, http://www.biography.ms/Bulgarian_language.html - bul: Áúëãàðè-ìîõàìåäàíè; local: Pomak, Ahrian, Poganets, Marvak, Poturnak) are descendants of Christian http://bulgarians.biography.ms/ - Bulgarians who were forcibly converted to http://islam.biography.ms/ - Islam by the Turks, during the http://www.biography.ms/16th_century.html - 16th and the http://www.biography.ms/18th_century.html - 18th century . The word pomak is derived from Bulgarian dialectal pomaka (torture) and pomacen (tortured). Those who accepted Islam voluntarily are called Poturnak, meaning "One who turned into a Turk".

Muslim Bulgarians live mostly in the http://rhodopes.biography.ms/ - Rhodopes – the http://www.biography.ms/Smolyan_%28region%29.html - Smolyan region , the Southern part of the http://www.biography.ms/Pazardzhik_%28region%29.html - Pazardzhik and http://www.biography.ms/Kurdzhali_%28region%29.html - Kurdzhali regions and the Western part of the http://blagoevgrad.biography.ms/ - Blagoevgrad region in Southern http://bulgaria.biography.ms/ - Bulgaria and the http://xanthi.biography.ms/ - Xanthi and http://rhodope.biography.ms/ - Rhodope provinces in Northeastern http://greece.biography.ms/ - Greece . They also live in a group of villages in the http://www.biography.ms/Lovech_%28region%29.html - Lovech region in Northern http://bulgaria.biography.ms/ - Bulgaria .

Muslim Bulgarians speak a variety of archaic http://www.biography.ms/Bulgarian_language.html - Bulgarian dialects. Under the influence of mass media and school education, the dialects have been almost completely unified with standard http://www.biography.ms/Bulgarian_language.html - Bulgarian among Muslim Bulgarians living in http://bulgaria.biography.ms/ - Bulgaria . As http://greece.biography.ms/ - Greece has tended to regard its http://muslim.biography.ms/ - Muslim minority as only http://www.biography.ms/Turkish_language.html - Turkish -speaking and has allowed only education in http://www.biography.ms/Turkish_language.html - Turkish , the Muslim Bulgarian community in http://greece.biography.ms/ - Greece has become largely bilingual and the mother tongue of some of its members now is http://www.biography.ms/Turkish_language.html - Turkish . The spoken language of those members of the community who have preserved the dialect as their mother tongue has been influenced to a large extent by http://www.biography.ms/Turkish_language.html - Turkish and http://www.biography.ms/Greek_language.html - Greek and shows many aberrations from formal http://bulgarian.biography.ms/ - Bulgarian .

Pomaks in http://bulgaria.biography.ms/ - Bulgaria do not represent a homogenous community. Pomaks living in the eastern part of the http://rhodopes.biography.ms/ - Rhodopes tend to be non-practising http://muslims.biography.ms/ - Muslims and usually have Christian names. A large number of them, especially those living in the municipalities of Zlatograd, Nedelino, Krumovgrad, and Kirkovo, converted to http://christianity.biography.ms/ - Christianity in the http://www.biography.ms/1990.html - 1990s . Pomaks in the western part of the http://rhodopes.biography.ms/ - Rhodopes are, on the hand, strongly religious and have preserved the http://muslim.biography.ms/ - Muslim name system, customs and clothing. Whereas the majority of the Pomak community has identified itself as http://bulgarian.biography.ms/ - Bulgarian in the population censuses in http://www.biography.ms/1992.html - 1992 and http://www.biography.ms/2001.html - 2001 , a certain minority in the western http://rhodopes.biography.ms/ - Rhodopes has opted for http://www.biography.ms/Turkic_peoples.html - Turkish ethnicity although its mother tongue is also http://www.biography.ms/Bulgarian_language.html - Bulgarian . The name ‘Pomak’ is strongly pejorative in http://www.biography.ms/Bulgarian_language.html - Bulgarian and is resented by most members of the community, especially by non-practising http://muslims.biography.ms/ - Muslims . The name adopted and used instead is Bulgarian Mohammedans (Muslim Bulgarians).

The Muslim Bulgarian community in http://greece.biography.ms/ - Greece has been largely Turkified. Since the http://www.biography.ms/1990.html - 1990s http://greece.biography.ms/ - Greece has made tentative attempts to promote a separate "Pomak" identity, partly because of the advanced Turkification of the non-Turkish members of its http://muslim.biography.ms/ - Muslim minority (Muslim Bulgarians and http://roma.biography.ms/ - Roma ) and partly for fear of the growing percentage of http://muslims.biography.ms/ - Muslims in http://thrace.biography.ms/ - Thrace in the past couple of decennia. A http://www.biography.ms/Greek_language.html - Greek -Pomak dictionary has been issued and Muslim Bulgarians have frequently been described by Greek authorities as "an amalgamation of http://bulgarians.biography.ms/ - Bulgarians , http://greeks.biography.ms/ - Greeks and http://turks.biography.ms/ - Turks " or even as "Muslim Slavophone Greeks".

There is also a substantial Muslim Bulgarian community in http://turkey.biography.ms/ - Turkey , estimated at some 120,000 people. These are not recognized by the Turkish government as an http://www.biography.ms/Ethnic_group.html - ethnic minority and have been largely Turkified. Some of them have http://www.biography.ms/Turkic_peoples.html - Turkish or distinctive "Pomak" self-consciousness.

Source: http://pomaks.biography.ms/ - http://pomaks.biography.ms/

I am so sorry Ihave problem with my pc Icant join the forum:

we have to be more forbearancely! and have to be out of official theories also not define pomaks as like(pomak turks,muslim bulgarians and ex-greeks) in fact we need to investigate slavic tribes and their effects to balkans. am i right?

yes it is between the rows if you know looking And there are more truths which are hard copy

Except from:

SAKALIBA ARE KIPCHAKS, AND BULGARS ARE ONE OF KIPCHAK TRIBES

Mirfatykh ZAKIEV

An article from his book TATARS: Problems of history and language. Kazan, 1995. Pp. 68–81.

That ku in ethnonim Kuchak~Kipchak (Kuman) means ‘white, red, fair haired’, proves also to be true by the fact that in many Turkic peoples we observe white (yellow) and not white (not yellow) people. Thus, in 5-6 cc. on the territory of Central Asia, Afghanistan, Northwest India and part of East Turkestan the White Huns, who are also referred to as Epthtalites, formed a state. In the history are known White Tatars and Black Tatars, White Khazars and Black Khazars, White Kirghiz and other Kirghiz, Sary Uigurs (Yellow Uigurs) and other Uigurs.

So, in the Turkic fold were peoples who called themselves Fair Haired, White. Further we shall see that these were Kipchaks. That ethnonim Kipchak designates white, light (Turk.: sary chechle ‘yellow haired’), the Turkological scientists noticed long ago. Thus, the Hungarian scientist Yu. Nemet came to this conclusion at the end of 30-es. He wrote, that “pale yellow” names of Kumans (Russ. Polovets) are a copy of their Turkic (self?) names Kuman and Kun, which ascend to Turkic adjective ku (from older kub) ‘pale’, ‘yellow’ [Dobrodomov I.G., 1978, 116; Nemet Yu., 1941, 99].

In Turkic languages the blond man also frequently is referred to as sary chechle ‘yellow haired’. Therefore it is no wonder that Kipchaks had also another ethnonim from a word sary ‘yellow’. The Western Kipchaks (Russ. Polovets) in ancient Russian sources were called Sorochinets, in that name was reflected the name of the Sary people, which was used prior to the name of the Kun people.

Since the Kipchaks mixed with other steppe tribes they picked up various eastern features. Cultural norms and views regarding ethnic features have had a part to play. For a Mongols, the Kipchaks were fair looking. For a westerner perhaps their doesn't exist much difference.

In another article different authors point that high frequency of this HbO-Arab mutation might be a result of inbreeding due to isolation of Pomaks for obvious resons.