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Dosanes, a pre-Alexander western conqueror?!
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Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
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Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Dosanes, a pre-Alexander western conqueror?!
    Posted: 30-Jul-2013 at 17:36
I had talked about it in this thread: Greek presence in Iran since 2nd millenium B.C., as I said there, according to ancient Assyrian sources a king of Saparda/Sparta named Dusanni had conquered the northern and eastern lands of Assyria and had become a serious rival of the Assyrian empire.
 
As you read here about Dosanes/Dorsanes: The later Greeks believed that he was their own hero, who had visited India, and related that in India he became the father of many sons and daughters by Pandaea, and the ancestral hero of the Indian kings (Arrian, Ind. 8, 9; Diod. ii. 39, xvii. 85, 96; Philostr. Vit. Apoll. iii. 46)
 
But today I read from a book that the actual name of this king could be Ardusanni and he was probably the same Ardysus II of Lydia who conquered some Greek cities in the seventh century BC, according to ancient Greek sources. It is important to mention that Lydia was called Sparda in the Old Persian texts.
 
Anyway the presence of Greeks or Lydians in the west and north of Iran can show that there were more cultural relations between western and eastern Indo-European peoples.
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Posts: 869 		  Quote Baal Melqart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jul-2013 at 18:37

It would definitely make more sense if the Lydians were the ones in question rather than the Spartans (What?!). But still, it is interesting to read about this because Lydia was still relatively far from Assyria, considering what close and far were like back in the 7th century BCE. Do the sources say what other lands they conquered other than the northern territories of the Assyrians?
Timidi mater non flet
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Posts: 1130 		  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jul-2013 at 19:47
what do you mean with western and eastern IE? I couldn't find any certain defination and also I see northern IE. Is it like that? Blue is west one and red is east, but Lydians are Anatolians as their language, so Anatolian branch of IE is in which side? 


Originally posted by Baal Melqart


It would definitely make more sense if the Lydians were the ones in question rather than the Spartans (What?!). But still, it is interesting to read about this because Lydia was still relatively far from Assyria, considering what close and far were like back in the 7th century BCE. Do the sources say what other lands they conquered other than the northern territories of the Assyrians?

Assyrians and Lydians are not too far. They were neighbour

but  "taking eastern lands of Assyria", this seems impossible. North is ok but east???  What about Urartu. They are quite suitable for taking Assyrians north&east land. Region is full of mountains like native Urartu homeland.
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Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jul-2013 at 02:10
Originally posted by Baal Melqart


It would definitely make more sense if the Lydians were the ones in question rather than the Spartans (What?!). But still, it is interesting to read about this because Lydia was still relatively far from Assyria, considering what close and far were like back in the 7th century BCE. Do the sources say what other lands they conquered other than the northern territories of the Assyrians?


 
They mostly talk about the eastern lands of Assyria rather than the northern ones, in fact cities, like Karibtu and Kilman, which were threatened by Dusanni of Saparda were located at the east of the Assyrian empire.
 
It is interesting to mention that a land named "Sepharad" has been also once mentioned in the Bible: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sepharad
 
Sepharad, or Sefarad, or Sfard, is a biblical place name of uncertain location. It is mentioned only once in the Bible, in the Book of Obadiah Obadiah 1:20. There are, however, Old Persian inscriptions that refer to two places called Saparda (alternative reading: Sparda): one area in Media and another in Asia Minor. It is speculated that Sepharad could have been Sardis, whose native Lydian name is Sfard.

Since the period of Roman Antiquity, after the Peshitta of the 2nd century, Spanish Jews gave the name "Sepharad" to the Iberian peninsula.[1] The descendants of Iberian Jews refer to themselves as Sephardi Jews (Hebrew, plural: Sephardim) and identify Spain as "Sepharad" in modern Hebrew.
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Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jul-2013 at 02:29
Originally posted by Ollios

what do you mean with western and eastern IE? I couldn't find any certain defination and also I see northern IE. Is it like that? Blue is west one and red is east, but Lydians are Anatolians as their language, so Anatolian branch of IE is in which side? 

 
There is a Centum/Satem division of the Indo-European Languages, your map partly shows it, of course Tocharian is also a Centum language, like Celtic, Italic and Greek langauges.
 
By western and eastern Indo-European peoples I meant the people who lived geographically in the east and the west, from the ancient times these two peoples had been separated by some non-Indo-Europeans, such as Semitic, Hurro-Urartian and Caucasian peoples.
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Posts: 1130 		  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jul-2013 at 03:45
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

 
There is a Centum/Satem division of the Indo-European Languages, your map partly shows it, of course Tocharian is also a Centum language, like Celtic, Italic and Greek langauges.
 
By western and eastern Indo-European peoples I meant the people who lived geographically in the east and the west, from the ancient times these two peoples had been separated by some non-Indo-Europeans, such as Semitic, Hurro-Urartian and Caucasian peoples.

But Heredotus put all Asian in one side so Lydians should be in Eastern group for him Big smile 
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