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Greek presence in Iran since 2nd millenium B.C.

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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Greek presence in Iran since 2nd millenium B.C.
    Posted: 18-Jul-2008 at 14:00
Could it be an ancient Greek village:
 

A pic: http://www.sjsu.edu/depts/PoliSci/faculty/danopoul/danopoul.htm


>>"The house in Kandalos (Jelli), Arcadia, Greece where my great grand-father was born almost two centuries ago"<<

The Lost Villages of Arcadia: http://arcadia.ceid.upatras.gr/arkadia/engversion/history/lostvillages.html


What were the criteria of choosing a new name for a village? First of all the ancient Greek history of the place , IF it existed any. For Arcadia, the "Guide to Greece" of Pausanias was the only (but great) help. >> Zeli turned to Kandalos <<

Therefore Kandalos, the god of war (it has been mentioned in this thread) was an ancient Greek village, wasn't it?

Ancient Kandelos village in Iran, a unique village in the whole Iran!

http://fz-az.fotopages.com/?entry=1342857

http://fz-az.fotopages.com/?entry=1342178

 

This is a mosque!!!


Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 21-Jul-2008 at 11:25
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  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jul-2008 at 14:35
where in Iran is this?


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  Quote Suren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jul-2008 at 17:57
In northern Iran near Caspian Sea. It is famous for candelous company.
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jul-2008 at 18:53

As Suren said, Kandalos is located in the north of Iran at the slopes of Alborz’s range of mountains ending in the Zanos valley.

This is a Persian website about Kandalos: http://www.kandelous.blogfa.com/8701.aspx

A pic from that website:

Artemis, the Greek goddess of war:

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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jul-2008 at 20:37

This statue relates to the old story of Mina and Panther (مینا و پلنگ) in Kandalos: http://www.kandelous.blogfa.com/post-75.aspx
 
Mina could be the Persian version of Greek Minos.
 
 
Ariadne and Panther
 
Ariadne was the one-time wife of Dionysus and the daughter of King Minos and Queen Pasiphae. By some accounts King Minos was a son of Zeus. The famous Minotaur of the Labyrinth of Crete was born of Pasiphae's relation with a sacred bull. After Ariadne helped the hero Theseus escape the Labyrinth, they escaped together, but soon Theseus abandoned her, some say pregnant, on the island of Naxos. Dionysus found her abandoned on the island and married her there.


Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 18-Jul-2008 at 20:40
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  Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2008 at 09:21
if you ask me that village looks like a typical Epirotan village in the Pindus mountains...

So, what is your theory about this Kyros? Smile I mean, how, when, what? It is a good observation i have to say.






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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2008 at 09:45


Iran Provinces

Kandalos is in the west of Mazandaran province but lets see what Herodotus says about Gilaki people of Gilan province:

http://www.allempires.com/EBooks/Default.asp?BookID=41&ChapterID=675

They have all deep blue eyes, and bright red hair. There is a city in their territory, called Gelonus, which is surrounded with a lofty wall, thirty furlongs each way, built entirely of wood. All the houses in the place and all the temples are of the same material. Here are temples built in honour of the Grecian gods, and adorned after the Greek fashion with images, altars, and shrines, all in wood. There is even a festival, held every third year in honour of Bacchus, at which the natives fall into the Bacchic fury. For the fact is that the Geloni were anciently Greeks, who, being driven out of the factories along the coast, fled to the Budini and took up their abode with them. They still speak a language half Greek, half Scythian.

1. Gilaki language: (also is known as Glaiki, Greek comes from "Graikoi", doesn't it?) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilaki_language

I know almost nothing about Greek language but for example doesn't "Kore" also means "Girl" in Greek?
As you read Si or Sisi mean "stone and mountain" in Gilaki language, I think it can be related to "Sisyphus" in Greek mythology, who was condemned to the eternal task of rolling a large stone to the top of a mountain, from which it always rolled down again.

2. deep blue eyes, and bright red hair

Search for Gilan girl: http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=Gilan%20girl&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

Ali Larijani,  the chairman of the Iranian parliament, is also from this region:

In fact Gilaki people are famous for their blue eyes, for example about Mirza Kouchak Khan of Gilan, an Iranian national hero of World War I, we read: http://www.mehrnews.com/en/NewsDetail.aspx?NewsID=10942 The contemporary poet Karim Rajabzadeh is to publish a collection of poetry on Mirza Kouchak Kahn Jangali under the title of “Blue Eyes of Love”.

3. Wooden houses

Search for Gilan houses: http://images.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&q=Gilan+houses

Could you find a non-wooden house?

A mosque:



Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 20-Jul-2008 at 08:09
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2008 at 10:16

Statue of Nika in phoman, Gilan province:

Nike, Greek goddess of victory:



Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 19-Jul-2008 at 11:10
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  Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2008 at 10:17
Thank you very much again Cyrus.
Very interresting! I was unaware of the report of Herodotus. However, the blonde elements are probably not from Greece. Ancient Greeks had in majority dark brown hair.

Kore means daughter, so yes it is a good observation again.


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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2008 at 11:53

Cyrus (Kurosh means "boy" in Gilaki) was certainly not a Persian king, you read here: http://www.sacred-texts.com/afr/we/we20.htm that some Greek historians such as Ctesias called him an Amardian.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amard The Amard people, or Amardis (also Amardians, Amui in Pahlavi) were a tribe living along the southern shore of the Caspian, including current day Amol, Iran. The name is also seen as Mardi, Mardian, Mardae, etc.
 
http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=929&PID=63722 : My Persian encyclopaedia says about Amards (Mards) as the ancestors of modern Gilakis that they were non-Aryan people of Greek Origin who in the second and first millennium BC lived in the city of Amol (Amoi) and Tonekabon in Mazandaran.
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2008 at 08:18

This is really interesting that Herodotus says Gilanis are half Greek, half Scythian.

One of the most ancient sites in Gilan is Marlik: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marlik


Golden Cup depicting Griffin on top band. Excavated at Marlik, Gilan, Iran. First half of first millennium BC.

Scythian Griffin on top band:

And Greek Pegasus below:

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  Quote Suren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2008 at 10:00
WinkCheersWinkCheersWink
WinkCheersWinkWink
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  Quote Suren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2008 at 10:06
Cyrus, the wooden mosque is in Nishabur (khurasan Province) some thousand kilometers far from gilan province.Viking
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2008 at 12:16
You are right but it is not a Khorasani building, is it? Of course it is just a modern building which could be inspired from Old Mosque of Rasht: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rasht (look at the painting)
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2008 at 17:00

There are some unique words in Gilaki language that you can hardly find a word for them in other languages, for exmple:

http://www.chn.ir/news/?section=4&id=935

"از يك واژه گيلكي استفاده كردم به اسم (بيلگاس) و توضيح دادم كه يعني كسي كه دندان‌هايش شبيه دندان‌هاي اسب باشد"

It says the word "Bilogas" in Gilaki language means "One who has teeth similar to a horse‘s", now lets find this word has a Greek or Scythian origin?

Could it be related to this word: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruxism
 
Bruxism (from the Greek βρυγμός (brugmós), gnashing of teeth) is grinding of the teeth, typically accompanied by clenching of the jaw.


Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 20-Jul-2008 at 17:23
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2008 at 21:23
Do you know where Marlik objects were found? in the largest Olive Garden in Iran.
 
 
Roodbar is also called "Roodbar Zeitoun (olive)" for the olive gardens in the area. Marlik bowl, a famous archeological artifact and one of the oldest gold bowls in the world from 1st millennium BC was found in Roodbar [1], [2]. Despite the olive gardens that may suggest presence of a Mediterranean climate, the winters are very cold in the area. Roodbar was near the epicenter of an earthquake of magnitude 7.3 Richter (MS=7.7, MW=7.3, mb=6.4) at 12:31am on June 21, 1990 local time that killed at least 6,000 and injured 10,000 city residents. [ Abbas Kiarostami (an Iranian film director) made his famous film "Through the Olive Trees" based upon this event. -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Through_the_Olive_Trees ]
 
More info about Marlik: http://i-cias.com/e.o/marlik.htm (a large rocky mound surrounded by olive groves)
 
I think those are olive trees beside the winged-horses (Pegasus) on that Marlik Golden Cup, anyway it is obvious that Gilakis loved this region because it resembled their mother land (Greece).
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2008 at 07:05

About Traditional Gilaki Costumes:

http://cyberfaith.blogspot.com/2008/04/rural-heritage-of-guilan-green-smile-of.html
Their local wearing models are absolutely harmonious with the peaceful and wholesome Islamic rules of clothing, though they strongly show an ideological independence from the common dressing types used in the other parts of Iran. For example, the women dressing of Rudsar city in the eastern Guilan have been used in the opening ceremony of Athens 2004 Olympics.

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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2008 at 08:08

It seems to be a good research for me! Smile

The region in the east of Gilan and the west of Mazandaran provinces is known as Halan or Halestan (land of Hales).

Search for Halestan: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Halestan

Map of Halestan in the east of Gilan province: http://www.traveljournals.net/explore/iran/map/m5031763/halestan.html

Map of Halestan in the west of Mazandarn province: http://www.traveljournals.net/explore/iran/map/m5080658/halestan.html

The longest river of this region: Chalus (the word is similar to "Chios", an island in Greece)
 
http://www.pars-iran.tripod.com/chalus.htm : Chalus River with 80km long comes from Kandovan Mountain then it graft to Caspian Sea on Chalus city (small city on east of Mazandaran province).
 
Xenophon has mentioned a Chalus river: http://www.allempires.com/EBooks/Default.asp?BookID=60&ChapterID=974
"After this Cyrus marched onwards four stages--twenty parasangs--to the river Chalus." (ANABASIS, by Xenophon: Book 1)
 
The highest mount of this region: Samamos (the word is similar to Samos, an island in Greece)
 
 
http://hezarbareshgh.blogfa.com/post-668.aspx : The peak Soomamoos is part of the Alborz mountain range in the North of Iran. The peak of the Soomamoos extend through the  provinces of Gilan and Mazandaran. Soomamoos Peak,  has an elevation of 3720 m  and it is the tallest summit in Gilan province.


Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 21-Jul-2008 at 09:13
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2008 at 10:07

This Persian website: http://www.aftab.ir/travel/iran/gilan/geography/human.php says anicient Gilakis believed in multiple gods (Polytheism), one of their known gods was "Gil-Agames", a hero which is known by Sumerians as "Gilgamesh" and Greeks "Agamedes/Agamemnon". Wink ultra-Gilaki nationalism!!

http://www.cais-soas.com/News/2005/December2005/15-12.htm (CIAS: The Circle of Ancient Iranian Studies):

The civilization thrived along the banks of Mardi (or Amardi) River (Sepid Roud) and the nearby plains.
The tribe itself was called ’Mard’ and the adjective of Amardi, meaning ’fighter’ was attributed to them.
Historical objects unearthed from Gohar Roud (Marlik) in 1961 indicate that the territory was once a center of art which influenced the entire Middle East.
Mousavi said that the same tribesmen called Gil Mard are living in Gilan province. Nowadays, in Gilan province, the ships are called ’Gil Mardi’ and the men and women living in the province are known as Gilmard.
The language of Gilmardi is spoken in the eastern part of the province and is somewhat different from Taleshi, Lahijani and Rashti dialects.
The title of Gil Gamesh was given to heroes who were as strong as oxen.
The greatest of Iranian poet Master Ferdowsi spoke highly of the bravery of the Gilmards warriors in his epic Shahnameh several times, Mousavi said.

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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2008 at 10:48
It is true that "Gile" means Ship in Gilaki language, of course I don't know their name relates to this word or not.
 
There is also a similar Greek word: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galley
 
A galley (from Greek γαλέα - galea) is an ancient ship which can be propelled entirely by human oarsmen, used for warfare and trade.
Galleys fought in the wars of ancient Persia, Greece, Carthage and Rome until the 4th century.
Galleys traversed the Mediterranean from around 3000 BC. The Phoenicians and the Greeks built and operated the first known ships to navigate the Mediterranean: merchant vessels with square-rigged sails.
The development of the ram in about 800 BC changed the nature of naval warfare, which had until that point involved boarding and hand-to-hand fighting. Now a more maneuverable ship could render a slower ship useless by staving in its sides. We do not know for sure if the winners of naval battles usually actually sank their opponents; the same Greek word can mean "sunk" or "waterlogged", and reports survive of victorious galleys towing the defeated ship away after a battle.
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