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pekau
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Topic: Something that may be new to Muslims Posted: 08-Feb-2007 at 19:15 |
Originally posted by xi_tujue
Originally posted by TheDiplomat
Originally posted by pekau
I was wondering, how could there be so many Muslims in China? I thought they were either Communists, Buddist, or other Chinese religions. How did Islam got into China? |
Actually, Turkic people adopted Islam as their religion beginning from Talas war of 757 which took place between Arabs and Chinese. Turkic people sided with The Arabs an got to know about Islam. So Islam gained a place in the Central Asian World.
Also There are millions of Turkic Uigur people residing in China. Their region is also called East Turkestan.
Check the link.. There are also some good material on Islam in China
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uigur |
there are also ethiv chinese who are muslim like the HUI
According to the 2000 census, the largest of the ten traditionally Muslim ethnic groups in China are the Hui (9.8 million in year 2000 census, or 48% of the officially tabulated number of Muslims). The other nine, in descending order of size, are Uyghurs (8.4 million, 41%), Kazakhs (1.25 million , 6.1%), Dongxiang (514 thousand, 2.5%), Kirghiz (161 thousand), Salar (105 thousand), Tajiks (41 thousand), Bonan (17 thousand), Uzbek (12 thousand), and Tatar (5 thousand). However, individual members of traditionally Muslim ethnic groups may profess other religions or none at all, while Muslim believers may also be found among traditionally non-Muslim groups (one example being the Kache, who are ethnically Tibetan).Muslims are predominatly in the areas thatborder Central Asia, Tibet and Mongolia, i.e Xinjiang, Ningxia, Gansu and Qinghai which is know as the Quran Belt
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What I don't get is this. Due to the Cultural Revolution under Communist regime in China... all the religions were banned. And that ended when Mao died, right? That's about 20 - 30 years, give or take. Within that time period, over tens of millions of Chinese were converted to Islam? It makes no sense.
Of course, one could always justify the answer by saying, "Witness the power of Allah", but I'd like some logical explainations.
Edited by pekau - 08-Feb-2007 at 19:16
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Wrageowrapper
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Posted: 08-Feb-2007 at 19:22 |
Just because the government says something doesn't mean the people automatically become atheists. Religion had been an important part of China for the past 3k years or so, alot of the customs were hard to estinguish. Sort of like Odinism in Scandinavia after Christianisation.
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Nuenonne Palawa-kani wrageowrapper.
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Omar al Hashim
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Posted: 08-Feb-2007 at 19:51 |
Yeah, Mao banning religion didn't turn people atheist. Same as in the Soviet Union, people can enforce atheist (or any other ideology) but that doesn't mean people will convert. The 20 million figure is after 1300 years of trade, not 20-30 years of conversion.
Originally posted by Zagros
How many more actually call themselves Muslim and live more like
heathens? lol. Iran has 300,000 prostitutes from a population of
70,000,000 - now they have customers too! |
The Irani government allows prostitutes?
Edited by Omar al Hashim - 08-Feb-2007 at 19:52
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pekau
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Posted: 08-Feb-2007 at 20:05 |
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
Yeah, Mao banning religion didn't turn people atheist. Same as in the Soviet Union, people can enforce atheist (or any other ideology) but that doesn't mean people will convert. The 20 million figure is after 1300 years of trade, not 20-30 years of conversion.
Originally posted by Zagros
How many more actually call themselves Muslim and live more like heathens? lol. Iran has 300,000 prostitutes from a population of 70,000,000 - now they have customers too! |
The Irani government allows prostitutes?
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Possibily a corruption, black market... you know what I am talking about.
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Dan Carkner
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Posted: 08-Feb-2007 at 22:07 |
Supposedly the government of Iran arranges "temporary marriages" of pleasure for men, which is essentially prostitution.
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malizai_
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Posted: 08-Feb-2007 at 23:02 |
Originally posted by Aelfgifu
But being a prostitute does not exclude being a muslima, neither does visiting a prostitute exclude being muslim. These might not be very 'good' muslims perhaps, but when they believe they are still muslims. |
Agreed.
The number of prostitutes is not surprising for the reasons cited by Zagros. There are many hypocrites in Iran that are circumstantial or incidental Muslims, some out of convenience I guess. A significant section of Iranian populace is actually irreligious. It may be a reaction to the stern control of the regime. A lot prostitutes working in the UAE and gulf states are Iranian also. I don't think it is because of poverty though. Funnily enough Iran is also the nose-job capital of the world.
Temporary marriages are a Shiite peculiarity and from what i have heard are quite common in Iran.
Edited by malizai_ - 08-Feb-2007 at 23:15
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Lmprs
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Posted: 09-Feb-2007 at 00:48 |
This is my own subjective estimate for Turkey:
Muslims - 90 %
Atheists, Agnostics, Nontheists - more than 9 %
Christians, Jews, Others - less than 1 %
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Among Muslims...
Muslims, living by the Quran - less than 1 %
Muslims, who comsume alcohol and do other 'prohibited' stuff - more than 99 %
Edited by Feanor - 09-Feb-2007 at 00:49
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Suren
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Posted: 09-Feb-2007 at 03:00 |
Originally posted by Feanor
This is my own subjective estimate for Turkey:
Muslims - 90 %
Atheists, Agnostics, Nontheists - more than 9 %
Christians, Jews, Others - less than 1 %
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Among Muslims...
Muslims, living by the Quran - less than 1 %
Muslims, who comsume alcohol and do other 'prohibited' stuff - more than 99 %
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TheDiplomat
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Posted: 10-Feb-2007 at 06:09 |
Originally posted by pekau
Against popular misconception, majority of the Muslims around the world do not live in Middle East. (I found it not too long ago...) I was somewhat stunned, but I thought that some of the people interested in Muslim might know this. (I am sure. After all, it's their religion)
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In the meantime, where do you end the borders of Middle East is also a question to be considered. Because some books include also Turkey and Pakistan within Middle East concept . That adds at least 215 million people as well
Edited by TheDiplomat - 10-Feb-2007 at 06:10
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ARDA:The best Turkish diplomat ever!
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Jagatai Khan
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Posted: 10-Feb-2007 at 14:55 |
Originally posted by Feanor
Atheists, Agnostics, Nontheists - more than 9 %
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This looks like too many
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pekau
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Posted: 10-Feb-2007 at 17:33 |
Originally posted by Jagatai Khan
Originally posted by Feanor
Atheists, Agnostics, Nontheists - more than 9 %
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This looks like too many
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Well, they are becoming a really popular belief these days... what is that percentage based on?
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Lmprs
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Posted: 11-Feb-2007 at 09:25 |
Originally posted by Jagatai Khan
This looks like too many. |
As I said before, those percentages are based on none other than my own observations. And it includes nontheists too. One doesn't have to say "I don't believe in the existence of god." like a negative atheist or "I believe in the nonexistence of god." like a positive atheist. If a person doesn't think about god, doesn't speak about god, doesn't care about god, then he is in that '9%'.
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Denis
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Posted: 11-Feb-2007 at 09:29 |
Originally posted by pekau
I was wondering, how could there be so many Muslims in China? I thought they were either Communists, Buddist, or other Chinese religions. How did Islam got into China? |
They are probably the Uighurs, going way back to the mighty Persian, Uzbek and Mongol civilisations.
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Zagros
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Posted: 11-Feb-2007 at 10:58 |
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
Yeah, Mao banning religion didn't turn people atheist. Same as in the Soviet Union, people can enforce atheist (or any other ideology) but that doesn't mean people will convert. The 20 million figure is after 1300 years of trade, not 20-30 years of conversion.
Originally posted by Zagros
How many more actually call themselves Muslim and live more like
heathens? lol. Iran has 300,000 prostitutes from a population of
70,000,000 - now they have customers too! | The Irani government allows prostitutes?
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Since when does a government have to allow prostitution for it to exist? lol. But ye, there is this tmporary marriage (sighe) which can last a few hours where, most often, dirty Mullahs and Imams marry prostitutes and have sex with them legally and pay them. Makes them think they not commiting moral misconduct.
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Zagros
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Posted: 11-Feb-2007 at 11:09 |
Originally posted by malizai_
Originally posted by Aelfgifu
But being a prostitute does not exclude being a muslima, neither does visiting a prostitute exclude being muslim.These might not bevery 'good' muslims perhaps, but when they believe they are still muslims. |
Agreed.
The number of prostitutes is not surprising for the reasons cited by Zagros. There are many hypocrites in Iran that are circumstantial or incidental Muslims, someout of convenience I guess. Asignificant section of Iranian populace is actually irreligious. It may be areaction to the stern control of the regime.A lot prostitutes working in the UAE and gulf states are Iranian also. I don't think it is because of poverty though. Funnily enough Iran is also the nose-job capital of the world.
Temporary marriages are a Shiite peculiarity and from what i have heard are quite common in Iran. |
What does nose job capital of the world have to do with anything!? Are nose jobs against Islam? And are you trying to claim Iranians are perverse by saying that it isn't because these women are poor that they are prostitues? Do you mean to say that so many people become prostitutes as a recreation? Are you kidding me?
What I said is that they also call themselves Muslim, despite their immorality.
Iranian Muslims are no worse than Pakistani Muslims or any other Muslims, least of all Arabs. All of them are hypocritical, alcohol drinking, promiscuous scoundrels save the devout poor and a few honourable others. Just look at the Arab sheikhs or, the so called, Muslim men in the West who think they can do wahtever they want because when they fast, all will be forgiven...
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malizai_
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Posted: 13-Feb-2007 at 00:37 |
Originally posted by Zagros
Originally posted by malizai_
Originally posted by Aelfgifu
But being a prostitute does not exclude being a muslima, neither does visiting a prostitute exclude being muslim. These might not be very 'good' muslims perhaps, but when they believe they are still muslims. |
Agreed.
The number of prostitutes is not surprising for the reasons cited by Zagros. There are many hypocrites in Iran that are circumstantial or incidental Muslims, some out of convenience I guess. A significant section of Iranian populace is actually irreligious. It may be a reaction to the stern control of the regime. A lot prostitutes working in the UAE and gulf states are Iranian also. I don't think it is because of poverty though. Funnily enough Iran is also the nose-job capital of the world.
Temporary marriages are a Shiite peculiarity and from what i have heard are quite common in Iran. |
What does nose job capital of the world have to do with anything!? Are nose jobs against Islam? And are you trying to claim Iranians are perverse by saying that it isn't because these women are poor that they are prostitues? Do you mean to say that so many people become prostitutes as a recreation? Are you kidding me?
What I said is that they also call themselves Muslim, despite their immorality.
Iranian Muslims are no worse than Pakistani Muslims or any other Muslims, least of all Arabs. All of them are hypocritical, alcohol drinking, promiscuous scoundrels save the devout poor and a few honourable others. Just look at the Arab sheikhs or, the so called, Muslim men in the West who think they can do wahtever they want because when they fast, all will be forgiven...
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Is there great wealth disparity in Iranian society? What percentage lives below the poverty line?
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Cryptic
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Posted: 13-Feb-2007 at 13:05 |
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
There are something like 200 million Indonesians 150 million Indians (although even up to 300 is quoted sometimes, 150 is the census) 150+ million Pakistanis 200ish million Bengalis (less than Indonesia) + Malaysia, the Phillipines and Thailand Thats a minimum 700 million in South - South East asia alone
20 million Chinese (including Uyghur) 30 million Europeans (don't know how Europe is defined) 70 million Turks 60 million Iranis 10 million Americans ------ 900 million
+ Central Asia, Russia, Africa, of which I have no idea what the population is. Isn't Nigeria's population about 100 million and 60% muslim?
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Several of the figures (or implied figures) seem too high.
10 Million Americans? Is that North America, only the USA, or does that count the Carribean as well. I think the number counting USA, Canada and the Carribean, the actual number is closer to 5-6 million.
-Indonesia is about 10% Christian
-The Christian / Molsem ratio in Nigeria is probably far closer to to 50-50. There has not been a census in decades for fear of inciting religous / ethnic violence.
-The Phillipines is only about 10% Moslem and Thailand is less than 5%.
-Malaysia includes significant numbers of Christians, Buddhists and Hindus
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Omar al Hashim
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Posted: 13-Feb-2007 at 17:41 |
You might be right about America, they are only guesstamates.
Indonesia may well be 10% christian, there are still over 200 million muslims in it though. Malaysia doesn't have that many Christians, its mainly a muslim - chinese religions split, with a hindu minority.
PS.
Indonesia has a population of 245 million, which is 88% muslim, 5% Protestant, 3% Catholic, 2% Hindu, 1% buddhist and 1% other
Thats 215 million muslims, 20 million christians.
Edited by Omar al Hashim - 13-Feb-2007 at 18:03
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