Are Islam and democracy compatible really

Originally posted by Seko The military is a big inlfuence due to having its position in the country's national security council. I would like the military to contnue this presence and influence in Turkey since it is a balance to various political parties that verge off the desired secularist path, Turkish style.

Do you really mean this?
If a moderator (supposed to be quiet moderate ) says that,
what can someone expect by fanatic nationalists ???

Do u excuse the political role of army,because its a way to balance political parties? I am afraid with such opinions Turkey is miles away from being a western democracy-and entering EU.
I hope there are people with different point of view within Turkey...

On the other side,maybe its meant that military is necessary for keeping extreme islamism under control.
If this exist ...what could be the solution ..?
Can Turkey reach real democracy ,following another way to control Islamic extremism ,than using the Army for this?

Simple speculations..

Edited by Seko - 26-May-2006 at 09:00

The role of the miitary in Turkish politics can be reivewed in the link below.

 

Although the army's composition changes over time, it is possible to discern patterns in the way Turkey's military functions. In general, the Turkish military can be characterized as moderately conservative, because it tends to retain the existing order, but at the same time it does not hesitate to remedy the state's malfunctions.....

Synoptically, it is clear that the Turkish Army has conformed to its guardian role for almost half a century. It has become over time increasingly reluctant to physically seize power, but is very determined to strike down real or perceived threats to the constitutional integrity. http://jspc.library.wisc.edu/issues/1998-1999/article5.html

 

The military is a political party of its own. It is part of the governmental structure.

 

 

 

 

After having firsthand experience of the chaos that was 1970's Turkey I have a fond affection for it's (military) ability to control and thwart threats to the state and the civilian population. Whether you understand my arbritary sentiments are irrelevant to this topic. For you to dig up an old quote and pidgeon hole me is inconsiderate, yet to compare my beliefs as being marginally better than some fanatic nationalists is bordering on naivete. However, on the other hand, if the fanatic nationalists are law abiding secular citizens then I do share many of the same ideologies. If you mean that such individuals do not respect the rule of law then I am not one of them. Perhaps this clarifies the differences. See it is not so bad afterall. The military as part of the state and is not so 'weird' if you were familiar with Turkey. It is something I have appreciated and respected.

Originally posted by Digenis Is full democratization possible,with military involved in politics? My opinion: certainally,not-And i think most of Europeans share this opinion too.

 

So what!

 

I take offense that you could automatically degrade the military institution and then say that I, as a moderator, am some type of fanatic. That is why I said this will be an interesting experience. Your questions seemed more like a put down than a sincere inquiry. I respect your opinion and I don't question your personal beliefs as a member. That is who you are. It amazes you that I could be a democrat and support the military institutions of Turkey even in politics at the same time. Now after understanding my views maybe you will appreciate my beliefs too.

Originally posted by Maziar I think the turkish army is the insurance for the democracy and stability in this country. Middle East is a highly instable region. I agree this is a bit wired the turkish army has a such extrem role, but it is highly necessary. If Iran's army had a same role 1978, so we wouldn,t have an extrem fundamentalist gov. like islamic gov of Iran today.

I have travelled a lot in Turkey, not just Istanbul, and i have discussed with many people. I don't think that extreme islamists are a big percentage of the turkish population. I would say it's practically the same with any europeans country christian fanatics. Especially, in western Turkey, young people concider themselves muslim-europeans and not middle-east exremist muslims. It's only my opinion but i don't think Turkey is in danger of an ''islamist coup'' like the one Iran had.

With these virginity and adultary laws proposed by islamists you really learn to appreciate the role played by the army. I mean if I were a Turkish citizen I would stand by my right to choose to have sex before marriage and outside marriage, and no Islamist party no matter how many votes it gets, can have the right to criminalize such acts. You really have to be a secular Turk to understand and appreciate the pressure islamists are exerting on your way of life and the Army not matter how imperfect and anti-democratic in some of its practices is at least relieving some of it.

I believe in the strict seperation of religion and state, and while I believe islamists should be free to do whatever they want in their private personal lives, I also think they should keep their islamic ways away from the secular and modern institutions of the Republic, and should stop trying to impose them on others.

1. No religion based on propaganda and trying to convert the people is really compatible with democracy. Christian faith seeks the baptising of still unconsious children, and Islam & Judaism has the circumcision. Since the begining of their religious life a muslim, a christian or a jew is abused from a non democratic culture. And when they grow, they abuse the others.

2. The army is not a democratic institution in theory, and it would not be necessary in a peaceful world, But since we live in the real world, and since not all the turkey's neighbours are "goodwilling" and "pacifists", then i guess that they need an army. And they are not a democracy (this is utopic, I dont know if we can really talk about democracy in modern states).

3. The army is an institution not compatible with modern religions!

I think military coup is as bad as Islamic government to say the least.

Originally posted by bg_turk Originally posted by barish There are better ways to protect secularism. For example?

Are you serious? Does your question need an answer?

Turkey is not a police state. Secular structure can be preserved through law.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that our current government is a threat to secularism.
    
    

Edited by barish - 05-Jun-2006 at 16:54