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Topic: Seyyeds of Turkey Posted: 17-Feb-2006 at 20:49 |
I wonder are there still seyyids ( the decendants of the prophet Muhammad) exist in Turkey. I know they are still in good standing in Jordan but not so in Saudi. How about Turkey after Ataturk came to power? Did they just disappear or immigrate or what?
Does anyone knows?
Thanks
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Fizzil
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Posted: 18-Feb-2006 at 08:47 |
I don't believe in these decendants, i seen alot of seyyids in europe (london, germany, sweden) wherever i went there is this arab/turk/whathaveyou who says "Hey i'm a seyyid!"
Even Jordan, the Hashemites claim they descended from the prophet for legitimacy to rule reasons, but there is no solid evidence.
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Lmprs
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Posted: 18-Feb-2006 at 08:53 |
How a can Turk be descendant of Muhammed?
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DayI
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Posted: 18-Feb-2006 at 10:10 |
Originally posted by barish
How a can Turk be descendant of Muhammed? |
Turk as citizen of Turkey
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Maziar
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Posted: 18-Feb-2006 at 10:36 |
Originally posted by Fizzil
I don't believe in these decendants, i seen alot of seyyids in europe (london, germany, sweden) wherever i went there is this arab/turk/whathaveyou who says "Hey i'm a seyyid!"
Even Jordan, the Hashemites claim they descended from the prophet for legitimacy to rule reasons, but there is no solid evidence.
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I don't believe either, everyone knows Mohammad had no offsprings. His children died all in their childhood.
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Zagros
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Posted: 18-Feb-2006 at 11:29 |
it is pure BS, people who say it do so for prestige, we have so many seyyeds in Iran, it beggars belief. every other mullah thinks he is muhamad or the mahdi.
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Mira
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Posted: 18-Feb-2006 at 13:28 |
Lol, some of the statements made above are quite funny, coming from
people I thought would have some common sense, if not knowledge about
the matter.
Being a Hashemite does not necessarily mean one is a direct descendant
of the Prophet (peace be upon Him), but someone from the same tribe;
banu (bani) Hashim (sons of Hashim).
Fizzil, I thought you, at least, would know this much.
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erkut
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Posted: 18-Feb-2006 at 14:06 |
well i know there is a seyid in Menzil/Adiyaman Turkey. His name is Abdulhekim
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Maziar
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Posted: 18-Feb-2006 at 14:24 |
How could there be a Seyyed, if Mohammad had no offsprings?
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Mira
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Posted: 18-Feb-2006 at 14:26 |
Maziar,
Being a Seyyid does not mean a person is a descendant of Prophet
Mohammed (peace be upon Him). It means the person is a Hashemite,
only.
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Lmprs
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Posted: 18-Feb-2006 at 14:28 |
Originally posted by DayI
Originally posted by barish
How a can Turk be descendant of Muhammed? | Turk as citizen of Turkey |
I don't see that happening in that way either.
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Lmprs
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Posted: 18-Feb-2006 at 14:31 |
Not possible in Turkey, since nobody knows his/her relatives from even 150 years before.
Edited by barish
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Maziar
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Posted: 18-Feb-2006 at 14:53 |
Originally posted by Mira
Maziar,
Being a Seyyid does not mean a person is a descendant of Prophet Mohammed (peace be upon Him). It means the person is a Hashemite, only.
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Well i don't know, all seyyeds i know claim they are direct descandants of Mohammad.
And do you think hashemis had so much offsprings streched in the whole world? were the Hashemis supermen?
Edited by Maziar
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OSMANLI
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Posted: 18-Feb-2006 at 17:45 |
"I don't believe either, everyone knows Mohammad had no offsprings. His children died all in their childhood."
So who did the Caliph Ali marry?
"How a can Turk be descendant of Muhammed? "
Ones ancestors can be of diffrent nation, surely Turks of all races should know that.
Ofcourse there are Seyyids out there in various countries. However i do agree with the point that the can be many false claims out there.
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Maziar
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Posted: 18-Feb-2006 at 19:24 |
Originally posted by OSMANLI
"I don't believe either, everyone knows Mohammad had no offsprings. His children died all in their childhood."
So who did the Caliph Ali marry?
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Well i won't claim this, you muslims do: the blood of man won't be given by a woman.
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erkut
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Posted: 18-Feb-2006 at 19:27 |
why not?
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Posted: 18-Feb-2006 at 21:15 |
Guys you need to calm down. I was not asking your opinions about the Seyid class system. All I asked is how its condition in Turkey these days.
The Seyyids and espeically the Sherifs family class was huge in instabul during the Ottoman empire and they had high positions in the government.
Almost you can tell by the family last name if it ends with El din ..such as fahreldin or arsh eldin( ercetin), Cemaleddin, etc that they are a sharif or a seyyid family...or last names such as Abidin were reserved for seyyids. The celebi sufi orders family heads are mostly a family of seyids, as well as alot but not all whose name end with DeDe etc etc. Also, even turkish sounding names such as Doğan and many others do claim to be seyyids. Anyway , the list is huge but ever since the revolution they have become invisible. When Ataturk came to power lots of these priviliged families along with Imams, and ottoman empirial family it self lost their privilages.
I just wonder if they are still invisible in Turkey... Thats all i am asking.
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Maziar
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Posted: 18-Feb-2006 at 21:54 |
Originally posted by erkut
why not? |
ask the muslims i don't know. As i said i don't claim this, but muslims do.
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OSMANLI
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Posted: 19-Feb-2006 at 04:26 |
You should really show your sources. Could you please provide it.
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Mira
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Posted: 19-Feb-2006 at 07:18 |
No Osmanli. Maziar cannot provide any sources. In fact, he is even ignorant of his own parents' beliefs. According to Shia, a person who's mother is a Hashemite is given the title "Mirza".
As said earlier, you need not be a direct descendant of the Prophet, but only a descendant of the same tribe. The Hashemites - or Qureyshis, as they are more widely known - just like members of other tribes, were traders who migrated to different places. It is not at all surprising to find Qureyshis in different parts of the world. Bani Hashim was one of the biggest tribes in Arabia. Its members took pride in having so many children. As a matter of fact, the tribe of Hashim has many branches within it and they're all able to trace back their ancestors. The only so-called Hashemites who have not been able to prove their ancestry are the monarchs of Morocco.
It is wrong to assume that people link themselves to Bani Hashim for prestige or privilege. The only place I could think of where such a lineage could be used/abused for some sort of privilege or social status is Iran.
Having Hashemite Turks is not at all odd.
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