Turks in the Mongol Horde

19th century Russian historian Ivan Berezin, British scientist Colonel Yule, famous Soviet historian L.L.Viktorova, French Academician Rene Grousset, Australian professor de Rachewiltz, German professor Paul Ratchnevsky, Chinese professor Tu Ji (or Tu Chi), Dutch historian Leo de Hartog, US historians R.P.Lister, J.J.Saunders,  and many others think that Naimans, Kereits, Merkits, Onguts, Qongyrats, etc. were TURKIC speaking steppe peoples.   

Today they are parts of modern Kazakhs, and they still speak the same Turkic language .

Edited by Akskl

Sorry, you are wrong. I did read many of publications of the above-mentioned authors. They wrote about so-called "Turko-Mongols" (sounds like "Arabo-Negroes" when speaking about Sudanese or Mauritanian Arabs) - i.e. Turkic speaking peoples or tribes. Even when the authors write "Mongols" that does not mean that the "Mongols" are somehow related to the modern Khalkha-Mongols. They are more related to Great Moghuls and to Moghulistan - Turkic speaking nomads.  

Why the continuation "doesn't exist"? They still  live practically at the same territories, keep speaking the same language, having the same traditional culture  and food - horse meat, kurt - dried cheese, drinks - kumyss, traditional religion - Tengri, Umai, and even having the same tribal names! 

Modern Kazakhs never had ancestors, they probably arrived from Moon!

Why nobody says something like that about, say, Greeks, Italians,  Chinese, Celts, Slavs, etc.? 

 

Edited by Akskl

OK, then let's use a term of "Franco-Germans" to describe the various German, Roman, Slavic, Celtic, Finno-Ugric, Letto-Lithuanian, Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Indian, Persian, Armenian, Georgian etc. peoples who shared a common sedentary  lifestyle and culture. 

Kazakhs are a mix of Turkified Mongols and Turkic tribes already living there. Timur the Lame was also such a Turkified Mongol.

Yes,We(Turks) have been in Mongol Hordes.And Mongols have been in our hordes.As Temujin's said,Timur was a Turkified Mongol.Gengis Khan was a Mongolified Turk.

Today,there is no Mongol.All of them have been Turk...

Originally posted by tadamson [QUOTE=Alone_Wolf] Actually, Timur was a Turk and Temuljin (the Chingiss Khan) was a Mongol.

 

You're right.Feeling are the most important.I can be a Mongol but if I feel myself as a Turk,Im a Turk

Err,I didn't understand your last sentence.My english isnt good.As I understood you're saying racist about my sentence(They have been Turk at all).If reals are racist,It doesn't interest me

Originally posted by Temujin Kazakhs are a mix of Turkified Mongols and Turkic tribes already living there. Timur the Lame was also such a Turkified Mongol.

Falsehood!!! Kazakhs always were turki�. Mongols of Chingishan also were turki�. All niruns were turkic. Chingishan and Timur were niruns and turkic!

You can repeat that Naimans, Kereits, Jalairs, Merkits, Qongyrats, Onguts etc. were Mongols, but this isn't true. 100%. They were and they are Turkic tribes - today they are parts of modern Kazakhs.  

Originally posted by Akskl You can repeat that Naimans, Kereits, Jalairs, Merkits, Qongyrats, Onguts etc. were Mongols, but this isn't true. 100%. They were and they are Turkic tribes - today they are parts of modern Kazakhs.

The Naimen I've already talked about.  In the 13th C the rest were Mongol.

There is no source or authority that calls Keraits Turkic,  why do you repeat this?

ps the Modern Kazakhs only trace the sub tribes back to the 18th C.

IGOR DE RACHEWILTZ, Turks in China under the Mongols: A Preliminary Investigation of Turco-Mongol Relations in the 13th and 14th Century, in: CHINA AMONG EQUALS - THE MIDDLE KINGDOM AND ITS NEIGHBORS, 10th - 14th CENTURIES, EDITED BY MORRIS ROSSABI, Chapter 10, University of California Press - Berkeley - Los Angeles � London, pp.281-310.

The Turkish peoples that I have surveyed for the present investigation are the following: Uighur, Kharlukh, Khangli, Kipchak, Ongut, Kereyid, Naiman

We must not forget also that, as a young man and for many years, Chinggis Khan had been a client and an ally of the Kereyid court, and that he must inevitably have been exposed to Turkish culture through this close association. It is perhaps not fortuitous that the very title he assumed, Chinggis Khan, is of Turkish origin [8].

To-lo-chu (died before 1260), also from Khocho, who taught the Uighur script to Mongol nobles and also to Khubilai [23].

Of the 5 Naimans, 1 was Batu�s teacher Pai Pu hua (Beg Bukha) [35],

As was mentioned earlier, Khubilai was instructed in Uighur script by To-lo-chu. While still a prince he had as senior secretary Shiban, and among the people who, in one capacity or another, served him in these formative years were Uighurs like Lien Hsi-hsien, Esen Nai, Arigh Khaya, and Meng-su-ssu (Mungsuz).

http://www.kyrgyz.ru/forum/index.php?showtopic=263




Edited by Akskl