Trinity what is your doctrine

King

Joined: 14-Jul-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6565

Quote

Posted: 16-Feb-2006 at 23:00

Originally posted by malizai_

Originally posted by Maju

As a Pantheist (and therefore Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist and whatever you want), I say it is a superstition...

... but God is a superstition as well.

I think antagonistic comments like the above are usefull in society because they create debate. But their usefullness is limited to just that. Pantheism is the belief that everything is god. ie a shoestring, used toilet paper, nitric acid, a golf player. A pantheist does not belong to any religion, let alone five/six different ones. He reduces GOD to E=mc2 and thats it.

Not actually...

... but of course you are not one, so you can't understand.

I think that it is important for any Pantheist (and that means anyone ultimately) to empathize and understand the multiplicity of beliefs, paranormal phenomena and whatever. This doesn't mean to accept their dogmas or rituals (it would be impossible to fulfill all them - and anyhow that's the trivial part of religions) but to accept that all them are forms of the Truth...

... true that Hitler and Satanic human sacrifices are also part of it... we are a very contradictory God.

Originally posted by Maju

I think that all Christians are idolatres because they take a book as if it was God, which is outmostly blaspheme.

WHAT UTTER NONSENSE!!! and U call them idolaters for all the wrong reason.

Christianity is most alike in belief to Hinduism.

For majority of Hindus believe that their many gods are a manifestation of the one supreme GOD. A bit like trinity. The pagan idolaters of Arabia were no different.

That's because, no matter how idolatrists, they know that God is all. While Abramanists don't, they think that God is alien to reality and that some things are divine while others aren't.

It's Abrahamanists who are actually most confused...

But that's also part of God...

The most succinct description of GOD that i have heard is one given by the aborigines. Adnatu, is the name of their supreme being and it means the one without an anus.

That's blasphemous for me: God is also the anus... how can you concieve a God without anus or whitout anything...

For all its bruteness is is a very developed concept. For what they r saying is that we don't know what he looks like but we do know that he is not an organic entity. He is free of tiredness and needs, he is not hungry, miserable, a god that sleeps, a god that fathers sons and daughters. So there is nothing like unto him.

The aborigines may be the first to a express a monotheistic belief. I am intrigued to know what the rig veda says, maybe in a different topic

I think that instead they miss the important part, they idealize God. And while God is ideal, it is also real and total... therefore they are only appreciating a sclice of God not the True Divinty in its plenitude.

NO GOD, NO MASTER!

Maju

King

Joined: 14-Jul-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6565

Quote

Posted: 16-Feb-2006 at 23:16

After reading Eaglecap's divagations I understood how Jesus is God and how the Holy Spirit is God... but I didn't understand how Yaveh, aka the Father, is God.

Can you explain that to me?

NO GOD, NO MASTER!

Omar al Hashim View Drop Down

King

Suspended

Joined: 05-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5697

Quote

Posted: 16-Feb-2006 at 23:23

Ok, now I have to ask, What is a pantheist? and Why do people become pantheists?

malizai_

Sultan

Alcinous

Joined: 05-Feb-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2252

Quote

Posted: 16-Feb-2006 at 23:29

Originally posted by Maju

I think that instead they miss the important part, they idealize God. And while God is ideal, it is also real and total... therefore they are only appreciating a sclice of God not the True Divinty in its plenitude.

Oh i think they realize that there is plenty of god alright. What they don't do is frame god. Just like u say what he is and where he is, they say we don't know what he is, for we know he exists but since we haven't seen him we cant describe him.

Maju would u say u r GOD? just interested...

Guests

Guest

Quote

Posted: 17-Feb-2006 at 01:17

If Jesus was God...what was he doing for the first 30+ years?

Theophos

Pretorian

Joined: 12-Feb-2006
Location: Vatican City State
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 154

Quote

Posted: 17-Feb-2006 at 11:22

Saving you

"I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me."
--John 14:6

eaglecap

Tsar

Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 15-Feb-2005
Location: ArizonaUSA
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3959

Quote

Posted: 17-Feb-2006 at 18:40

If Jesus was God...what was he doing for the first 30+ years?
The point of this is what is your doctrine today or at least the one you grew up with. If you are not in a Christian sect then I suppose you would not have a doctrine but at least tell us what you know about it instead of criticism please!!
I wonder what the JW view is on this topic?

Omar al Hashim View Drop Down

King

Suspended

Joined: 05-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5697

Quote

Posted: 17-Feb-2006 at 20:04

I don't think asking questions is criticism, because your asking something to find an answer.

Edited by Omar al Hashim

Maju

King

Joined: 14-Jul-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6565

Quote

Posted: 17-Feb-2006 at 22:54

Originally posted by malizai_

Maju would u say u r GOD? just interested...

Sure.

You are too.

I just don't like to put emphais in that because it seems like megalomaniathic... and that's not the idea. I, you and the trash in the bin: all is equally divine - and fool the one who can't see it.

I don't put the emphasis in being God (because I feel like I have already enough problems

) but in everything ebing equally Divine. In amoralizing and depersonalizing God - not because of any ideological prejudice, because it can't be other way. Else, I would have to blame God. This way can live in It.

NO GOD, NO MASTER!

hugoestr

Tsar

Suspended

Joined: 13-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3987

Quote

Posted: 18-Feb-2006 at 01:29

Originally posted by eaglecap

Originally posted by hugoestr

Let me say this again: people from all over the world and with all different kinds of faiths come here. Excluding people in most of your polls is rude.

Once in a while asking just a specific kind of people for their opinion is okay. Doing it most of the time it isn't.

If you start a thread in AE, you are in fact requesting people from all over the world and different faiths to participate in your thread.

If you want to ask JUST Christians, find a forum that fits your desired description and ask there. For this topic, you can go to the Christian forums at

http://www.beliefnet.com/

eaglecap

Tsar

Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 15-Feb-2005
Location: ArizonaUSA
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3959

Quote

Posted: 20-Feb-2006 at 19:58

Let me say this again: people from all over the world and with all different kinds of faiths come here. Excluding people in most of your polls is rude.
I do not think it is rude at all to ask someone what their doctrine is. If they are not in a Christian sect then I am not convinced they would fully understand any type of Christian doctrine, it is not part of their identity. I put up the other thread on non-christian view so they can have an outlet on this topic. I will ask the adminstrator if your stance is fair or too heavy handed.
Now Christians are made up of many sects so I do not think I was being too narrow.

Maju

King

Joined: 14-Jul-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6565

Quote

Posted: 21-Feb-2006 at 00:33

What's the point of asking to Christians or Muslims, if, you know, atheist-pantheist Maju will come and break your scheme.

Why a trinity? Why not a duality, a quintuplicity or an icosaedre.

Does the trinity explain where are the 6 or 7 dimensions we are lacking of?

Why the trinity is all guys? It seems a bunch of teen-agers drinking in a pub...

Why don't you venerate a female trinity like Nubians used to do?

I believe in the following trinity:

The lingam
The yoni
The om

NO GOD, NO MASTER!

Le Renard

Baron

Joined: 14-Jan-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 443

Quote

Posted: 21-Feb-2006 at 09:33

Originally posted by flyingzone

(1) the bible never directly mentions it - all the so-called quotes and references are indirect; one would think if it is such an important aspect of the Christian teaching, the bible should be very clear about it;

That is because it doesn't the trinity is man made

hugoestr

Tsar

Suspended

Joined: 13-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3987

Quote

Posted: 21-Feb-2006 at 16:06

Originally posted by eaglecap

Let me say this again: people from all over the world and with all different kinds of faiths come here. Excluding people in most of your polls is rude.
I do not think it is rude at all to ask someone what their doctrine is. If they are not in a Christian sect then I am not convinced they would fully understand any type of Christian doctrine, it is not part of their identity. I put up the other thread on non-christian view so they can have an outlet on this topic. I will ask the adminstrator if your stance is fair or too heavy handed.
Now Christians are made up of many sects so I do not think I was being too narrow.

Stop trying to weasle your way out of this one.

The problem is that you only want a certain category of people to answer you. That is the problem.

Maybe I should just post an annoucement saying that any of those exclusive polls are null under intellectual forums. That everyone is allowed--No, encouraged--to participate in any poll that excludes participation.

Komnenos

Tsar

Retired AE Administrator

Joined: 20-Dec-2004
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4361

Quote

Posted: 21-Feb-2006 at 20:06

As a non believer, I can't answer the original question, but as the issue of the exact nature of the trinity has also played an important role in the evolvement of the Christian religion and the nations it came to dominate, it's far more interesting anyway to investigate how the concept came to life.
The rise of the trinitarian concept be seen as the struggle of a self-declared monotheistic religion firstly with the problem that the proclamation of the founder of the faith, Jesus, to the son of its only god presented, and secondly as the struggle with the residues of polytheistic religions in its believers that made the very idea of Monotheism a difficult to understand concept.
Isn't the trinity something of an easy opt-out, a clever contrivance that should soften the sudden intellectual blow of Monotheism to a people that were used to a whole Olympus of gods and couldn't cope very well with just one.
After all, it took two centuries of theological speculations and heated debates to come up with an official model that explained that whilst having three distinctve deities they were actually only one. And the fact that there still are deviant views on the nature of trinity might explain why even the Nicaen creed wasn't still satisfying enough to clarify the whole concept.

[IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg">

pikeshot1600 View Drop Down

Tsar

Joined: 22-Jan-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4221

Quote

Posted: 21-Feb-2006 at 20:25

I don't know that polytheism was a mass religious phenomenon, but I think it was more strongly adhered to by Classical elites. The easier to understand concept of monotheism probably assisted in expanding both Judeo-Christian and Islamic faiths after a certain point in both their developments.

Judaism had some sense of a Messiah, who some saw in Christ, and who would have had to have been human in form to be accepted. I do not know what concept of "soul" Judaism has, but the Trinity seems to proceed from Judeo-Christian concepts of one omniscient God, a Messiah (or a prophet) and the soul or spirit that lives on after physical death. The Trinity is strong in Christian belief, and there may be certain analogies in Islam.

As a Catholic school kid, I know what I was taught.

Maju