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Turkish Professor: Muslims Discovered Ame
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Turkish Professor: Muslims Discovered Ame
    Posted: 10-Dec-2006 at 15:39
Originally posted by explorer6

...
Hey, it's much more complex than that.  Most of the so-called defenders of indigenous cultures from hall of maat (bs) are not Native American activists.  Many of true NAs support or are open to Van Sertima! 
 
  
 
Ignorants exist everywhere I am afraid. And we should not forget many Black Americans PRETEND they are Amerindians, and they even have formed those ridiculous Black Tribes that the U.S. goverment don't want to recognize.
 
 
Originally posted by explorer6

...
Van Sertima probably has more NA blood than Montellano or Vierra. And he does not claim Olmecs were not NA.
 
 
Van Sertima is a mulatto and a very intelligent man. He found a way to become rich exploting the credibility of Black Americans.
 
Now if he really got a drop of Native blood, what a shame for theirs ancestors. He has declared Natives need masters from overseas. A racist concept of the same kind nazis used to have.
 
Now, in the academic world is another matter. Everyone known Van Sertima is a charlatan. Period.
 
Pinguin
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Dec-2006 at 15:50
Originally posted by Mixcoatl

If the Olmecs would have been influenced by Africans those African visitors would also have brought deseases with them. Which they clearly didn't, because Native Americans were not exposed to Old World deseases until the arrival of the Spanish after 1492. So any intensive precolumbian contact between America and the Old World is simply impossible.

The 'negroid' basalt faces are very easy to explain without the need for contact with Africans: try to make a head out of basalt with prehistoric tools only that does not look negroid. I bet that would be very difficult.

Furthermore craniology is a branch of science that has been completely debunked, so results drawn from measuring skulls are not to be taken seriously.

Finaly assuming Africans have influenced Native Americans because both built piramids is simply ridiculous. There are scores of ancient civilizations that built piramids. And the reason is very simple: if you want to build something big and tall, the best you can make with primitive tools is a piramid.
 
Completely agree. Besides, people forget the following:
 
Americans Indians, particulary those living in the regions from Mexico to Peru, were MORE ADVANCED technologically than West Africans almost all the history, up to the times of the Muslim Invasion of Western Subsaharian Africa (XII Century)
 
If anyone would have progress with a contact would have been the Africans, not the Olmecs, and the contact would have happened in Africa, simply because the Amerindians knew the sail and West Africans didn't, Amerindians have monumental works and Africans didn't, Amerindians knew writing and West Africans didn't have it!
 
There are no proof whatsoever of presence of Africans in pre-Contact Americas at all, not genetic or otherwise. Just an style of art is not enough a proof at all. Even more, most of the statues and arts of the Olmecs show people with  "oriental eyes", because they were Amerindians.
 
It is hard to believe there are adults who believe blindly in a charlatan like Van Sertima, but that don't realize his fantasies have no support at all outside his political movement.
 
Olmecs were Amerindians, period.
 
Penguin.
 
 
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Posts: 28 		  Quote explorer6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Dec-2006 at 06:41
Originally posted by Mixcoatl

If the Olmecs would have been influenced by Africans those African visitors would also have brought deseases with them. Which they clearly didn't, because Native Americans were not exposed to Old World deseases until the arrival of the Spanish after 1492. So any intensive precolumbian contact between America and the Old World is simply impossible.




Hehe, is that the best you have?  You must first learn about the phenomenon of genetic drift, vectors, etc.  For example, the Pacific Islanders did not carry Old World diseases into the Outer Pacific.

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Posts: 28 		  Quote explorer6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Dec-2006 at 06:46
Originally posted by pinguin

Originally posted by explorer6

...
Hey, it's much more complex than that.  Most of the so-called defenders of indigenous cultures from hall of maat (bs) are not Native American activists.  Many of true NAs support or are open to Van Sertima! 
 
  
 

 
Van Sertima is a mulatto and a very intelligent man. 


Van Sertima is half Macusi Indian (Carib).

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Dec-2006 at 06:56
Originally posted by explorer6

...
Van Sertima is half Macusi Indian (Carib).
 
Well, he is a very intelligent Sambo (Afro-Indigenous) individual then, who made his fortune saling fantasies to the right ethnic group.
 
I bet, he doesn't believe his hypothesis himself.
 
Penguin
 
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Dec-2006 at 07:02
Originally posted by explorer6

Originally posted by Mixcoatl

If the Olmecs would have been influenced by Africans those African visitors would also have brought deseases with them. Which they clearly didn't, because Native Americans were not exposed to Old World deseases until the arrival of the Spanish after 1492. So any intensive precolumbian contact between America and the Old World is simply impossible.


Hehe, is that the best you have?  You must first learn about the phenomenon of genetic drift, vectors, etc.  For example, the Pacific Islanders did not carry Old World diseases into the Outer Pacific.
....
 
There is no evidence of the presence of modern West Africans before the contact times in the Americas.
 
The idea is not prove they have not come. They idea is prove they have. And there is no proof of that at all.
 
Finally, you should know that Subsaharan Africa is one of the places that have most contagious disseases on the planet, and was always a region were disseases were widespread. To prove the point Europeans and Arabs could not invade and colonize those regions easily before the invention of vaccines!!
 
Now, if West Africans had arrived to the Americas, certainly that would changed the biology of Native Americans improving theirs inmune system. That didn't happened because Africans never came to the Americas!!!
 
Only a decade after slavery started in the Americas, yellow fever, carried by Africans, become permanent in tropical Americas. Why it didn't happened before?
 
Penguin
 
 
 
 


Edited by pinguin - 11-Dec-2006 at 07:06
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Posts: 28 		  Quote explorer6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Dec-2006 at 07:31
Originally posted by pinguin

Originally posted by explorer6

[QUOTE=Mixcoatl]

Hehe, is that the best you have?  You must first learn about the phenomenon of genetic drift, vectors, etc.  For example, the Pacific Islanders did not carry Old World diseases into the Outer Pacific.
....
 

 
 Why it didn't happened before?
 


Well if you understand genetic drift, vectors, etc.  then you will understand why it did not have to happen before. You don't even know that these diseases were a problem in West Africa at the specific times.  And Van Sertima does not only sugget contacts from West Africa.

Malaria and other diseases were also widespread in Southeast Asia at the time of European colonization but were not carried into the Pacific by Proto-Oceanic people.  Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence! A well-known corollary.

Please at least knowabout these topics before posting in ignorance! 

You call Van Sertima a sambo charlatan, but it is you who are an ignorant  mestizo (or claim to be a mestizo for the sake of argument).

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Posts: 1933 		  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Dec-2006 at 07:39
Originally posted by explorer6

You call Van Sertima a sambo charlatan, but it is you who are an ignorant mestizo (or claim to be a mestizo for the sake of argument). 
 
Shocked LOL 


Edited by Hellios - 11-Dec-2006 at 07:41
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Dec-2006 at 08:10
Originally posted by explorer6


Well if you understand genetic drift, vectors, etc.  then you will understand why it did not have to happen before. You don't even know that these diseases were a problem in West Africa at the specific times.  And Van Sertima does not only sugget contacts from West Africa.
 
Well, is great you understand genetic drift, vectors, etc. What you don't get though is that Van Sertima is a charlatan LOL
Originally posted by explorer6


Malaria and other diseases were also widespread in Southeast Asia at the time of European colonization but were not carried into the Pacific by Proto-Oceanic people.  Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence! A well-known corollary.
 
Yes, there is no evidence of absence, but that is not evidence of presence EITHER Wink
 
You don't have A SINGLE proof of presence of West Africans in the Americas in pre-contact times, because there were no Africans in the Americas at those times. They didn't have the technology at all!
 
How do you think they came to the Americas. Swimming?
 

Originally posted by explorer6


Please at least knowabout these topics before posting in ignorance! 
  
 
The same for you sir. I bet you have no idea of pre-columbian history and peoples at all, except for the science fiction novel of Van Sertima Wink

Originally posted by explorer6


You call Van Sertima a sambo charlatan, but it is you who are an ignorant  mestizo (or claim to be a mestizo for the sake of argument).
 
Yes, Van Sertima is a pretty smart fellow, indeed, he make money saling books.
 
And I am mestizo and proud of it. If you think I am an ignorant, please tell me what you want to learn. Perhaps some lessons on Pre-columbian past would be ok, don't you think? I think you need them LOL
 
Best regards,
 
Omar Vega (Allias Pingun(o), Penguin in Spanish Wink)
 
 
 


Edited by pinguin - 11-Dec-2006 at 08:12
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Posts: 28 		  Quote explorer6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Dec-2006 at 08:53
Originally posted by Hellios

Originally posted by explorer6

You call Van Sertima a sambo charlatan, but it is you who are an ignorant mestizo (or claim to be a mestizo for the sake of argument). 
 
Shocked LOL 


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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Dec-2006 at 10:26
Let's agree:
 
Ha Ha Ha Ha
 
 
Ha Ha Ha Ha. How swimming?
 
Ha Ha Ha Ha, WinkLOLLOLCry
 
Regards,
 
Pinguin


Edited by pinguin - 11-Dec-2006 at 10:28
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Posts: 373 		  Quote perikles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Dec-2006 at 04:27
they ride the sharks and the dolphins. I also think that monkeys were the first who discover america
lets be serious.
Samos national guard.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Dec-2006 at 04:57
Originally posted by perikles

they ride the sharks and the dolphins.
 
Great idea for a SF tale, Van Sertima style!
I will borrow it LOL
 
Originally posted by perikles

I also think that monkeys were the first who discover america
lets be serious.

This is serious. American monkeys separated from theirs Africans and Asian cousins long time ago, since the time the single continent splited. Tens of millions years ago.

American monkeys didn't evolved into man; that happened only in Africa. In one sense, all mankind is descendent of an African tribe living in Kenya some 60.000 years ago. The closest people to those ancient tribe (in genetic terms) that lives today is the Bushmen of South Africa.
 
Penguin
 


Edited by pinguin - 12-Dec-2006 at 05:15
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Posts: 373 		  Quote perikles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Dec-2006 at 23:32
Originally posted by pinguin

Originally posted by perikles

they ride the sharks and the dolphins.
 
Great idea for a SF tale, Van Sertima style!
I will borrow it LOL
 
Originally posted by perikles

I also think that monkeys were the first who discover america
lets be serious.

This is serious. American monkeys separated from theirs Africans and Asian cousins long time ago, since the time the single continent splited. Tens of millions years ago.

American monkeys didn't evolved into man; that happened only in Africa. In one sense, all mankind is descendent of an African tribe living in Kenya some 60.000 years ago. The closest people to those ancient tribe (in genetic terms) that lives today is the Bushmen of South Africa.
 
Penguin
 
 
In that area are any muslins?
If yes then the america was discovered by them. So the proffesor is right.
Samos national guard.

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Posts: 1933 		  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2006 at 07:47
I find Van Sertima a bit racist.  A white man would get crucified for a book called "whites in science".  I suppose it's more complex than that though.
 
 
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Posts: 1933 		  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2006 at 07:57
LOL LOL Pinguin,
 


Edited by Hellios - 13-Dec-2006 at 08:12
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2006 at 07:58
I bet not only Tales and Archimedes but also Isaac Newton and Einstein are included in Van Sertima's list of Black Scientists.
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2006 at 08:51
Originally posted by Hellios

LOL LOL Pinguin,
 
 
Don't you know these fellows also have a theory that say Vikings were Blacks? Amazing, isn't?
 
By the way, the "scientific" method they use is quite simple. Every prognate thick nosed and thick lips person represented in sculpures is (for them) by definition "African".
 
Pinguin
 
 
 
 
 
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Posts: 1378 		  Quote Ikki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2006 at 14:28
Originally posted by Hellios

 LOL Pinguin,
 



Hellios you are evil LOLLOLLOL
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2006 at 17:02

I found this information. I believe Van Sertima would be very happy LOL

It shows the way Africans reached the Americas to give theirs avanced knowledge Ermm to Olmecs: ridding dolphins. Well, the vase is Greek but that does not matter because the figures are painted Black. Therefore they were Africans Wink.
 
 
Penguin


Edited by pinguin - 13-Dec-2006 at 17:18
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