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Heraclius
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Topic: Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy Posted: 01-Jan-2006 at 00:56 |
Random point, but wasnt Constantine the Great born in Nis/Naissus in modern day Serbia? stones throw from Bosnia.
Sorry its 5:53am and i'm still awake for some reason, I tend to throw in random things this late
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A tomb now suffices him for whom the world was not enough.
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Constantine XI
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Posted: 01-Jan-2006 at 01:36 |
Originally posted by Heraclius
Random point, but wasnt Constantine the Great born in Nis/Naissus in modern day Serbia? stones throw from Bosnia.
Sorry its 5:53am and i'm still awake for some reason, I tend to throw in random things this late |
How dare you be on the computer at this time on this day! You are 18,
get out there like any respectable Englishman, get riotously drunk and
chase some wenches. DO IT!
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Mila
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Posted: 01-Jan-2006 at 01:38 |
Don't you mean chase some Lebanese-looking wenches?
Sorry God.
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Constantine XI
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Posted: 01-Jan-2006 at 01:43 |
Originally posted by Mila
Don't you mean chase some Lebanese-looking wenches?
Sorry God.
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Sorry, I don't quite understand......
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Heraclius
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Posted: 01-Jan-2006 at 01:44 |
Originally posted by Constantine XI
Originally posted by Heraclius
Random point, but wasnt Constantine the Great born in Nis/Naissus in modern day Serbia? stones throw from Bosnia.
Sorry its 5:53am and i'm still awake for some reason, I tend to throw in random things this late
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How dare you be on the computer at this time on this day! You are 18, get out there like any respectable Englishman, get riotously drunk and chase some wenches. DO IT!
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*clear throat* I'll have you know i'm 19 now my aussie matey w00t me! Happy belated birthday me!
Why oh why am i still awake?!??! anybody know the answer? I dont. Bahahaha. Oh bloody hell im talking total crap now.
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A tomb now suffices him for whom the world was not enough.
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Mila
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Posted: 01-Jan-2006 at 01:45 |
Congratulations, it means you're a normal person with a politically correct sense of humor.
I raise my glass to you!
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Mila
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Posted: 01-Jan-2006 at 01:45 |
Originally posted by Heraclius
Originally posted by Constantine XI
Originally posted by Heraclius
Random point, but wasnt Constantine the Great born in Nis/Naissus in modern day Serbia? stones throw from Bosnia.
Sorry its 5:53am and i'm still awake for some reason, I tend to throw in random things this late
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How dare you be on the computer at this time on this
day! You are 18, get out there like any respectable Englishman, get
riotously drunk and chase some wenches. DO IT!
|
*clear throat* I'll have you know i'm 19 now my aussie matey w00t me! Happy belated birthday me!
Why oh why am i still awake?!??! anybody know the answer? I dont. Bahahaha. Oh bloody hell im talking total crap now. |
Happy belated birthday!
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Constantine XI
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Posted: 01-Jan-2006 at 01:48 |
Originally posted by Mila
Congratulations, it means you're a normal person with a politically correct sense of humor.
I raise my glass to you!
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Cheers! *raises own glass to Mila and makes clinking sound*
Drink up!
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Constantine XI
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Posted: 01-Jan-2006 at 01:52 |
Originally posted by Heraclius
Originally posted by Constantine XI
Originally posted by Heraclius
Random point, but wasnt Constantine the Great born in Nis/Naissus in modern day Serbia? stones throw from Bosnia.
Sorry its 5:53am and i'm still awake for some reason, I tend to throw in random things this late
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How dare you be on the computer at this time on this
day! You are 18, get out there like any respectable Englishman, get
riotously drunk and chase some wenches. DO IT!
|
*clear throat* I'll have you know i'm 19 now my aussie matey w00t me! Happy belated birthday me!
Why oh why am i still awake?!??! anybody know the answer? I dont. Bahahaha. Oh bloody hell im talking total crap now. |
LOL, I'm sorry mate I'm still scatterbrained from partying from 10PM
til 8AM this morning. It's incredible, I can write a detailed
description of ANZAC jungle warfare and my RTW BI campaigns and yet my
simple arithmetic is failing me hehe. Phew, I'm off to another party in
just 4 hours, my body is going to be punishing me later I just know it.
Oh and before I forget, cheers to you also my fellow Byzantine Emperor and Happy birthday for November! *raises glass*.
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Heraclius
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Posted: 01-Jan-2006 at 01:59 |
Sounds like were all going to be drunk with all these raised glasses, shame I don't drink eh?
...............
*raises cup of tea* to my fellow Basileus, I'm sorry but thats just my thing, tea
Thanks to both of you, much appreciated
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A tomb now suffices him for whom the world was not enough.
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Constantine XI
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Posted: 01-Jan-2006 at 02:19 |
Originally posted by Mila
Okay, a question for you all...
I've read many times in history books that Bosnian Muslims practice
such a relaxed, western interpretation of Islam because they've lived
among Christians for centuries.
I disagree.
Bosnians were largely indifferent to formal religion long before the
Ottoman Empire arrived and the Christians who we lived among were far
from "relaxed and Western".
If anything - given the situation in the centuries leading to Bosnians
en masse conversion to Islam and the centuries immediately following it
- I'd expect their influence would have been one to radicalize the
Bosnian population (as we've seen following the 1992-1995 war).
I believe Bosniaks are largely as relaxed and tolerant as most regions
of the Ottoman Empire were; the only difference is that we've managed
to maintain it - and other areas, like Turkey, have maintained it
almost as much, and still others, like Albania, are even more relaxed
and western in their practice.
Because we're white and European, Eurocentric historians are more open
to noticing here what existed far beyond Europe for many centuries.
So I disagree with this sentement of this affect of Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy, what do you think?
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Well now that we are all liberally drunk (I slipped some vodka into Heraclius's tea while he wasn't looking ) it's time to answer Mila's question.
I agree that is was not the influence of Christianity but most likely
the socio-political factors which were more important in the religious
attitude of Bosnian Muslims.
The area has been unusually subject to a number of different religions
to choose from. But more important is probably the history of the
region. Let us not forget the area was under Communist rule from the
end of WWII until only a decade ago, which would have helped supress
fundamentalism while giving Bosnians an appreciation of everyone's right to worship inspite of the yoke of atheist supression.
The geography is also important. Bosnia has always existed on the
periphery of main power centres. Influenced by Rome, but never very
close to it. Influenced by Byzantium, but never very close to it.
Influenced by the Ottomans, but again a distant province. The area has
a great deal of rugged country which makes it difficult to access from
these power centres. Therefore, it seems to me more likely that
fundamentalism and extremism promoted by the central governments would
have extreme difficulty influencing the area all that much.
Bosnia was never that much affected by the Byzantine war with Islam,
with the Crusades or other long drawn out conflicts which leaves whole
nations embittered and on edge for generations. Inspite of the recent
conflict, which has had some effects of traumatising the population and
leaving people uneasy, the longer term history has not been so
especially bad.
Well from my limited knowledge, that's as much as I can understand of the situation.
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Mila
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Posted: 01-Jan-2006 at 02:36 |
I'd agree - but the influence thing is a bit misleading. You couldn't use the same word for all three empires.
Rome virtually destroyed pre-Roman Bosnia and Herzegovina, not that
there was much to destroy. But they did beat down all the pagan
Slavic and (adopted from the) Illyrian ways of life Bosnians practiced.
Permanant settlements were established, roads built, bridges built,
Roman Catholicism introduced. For a while Rome's rule here was very
strong, through local satellite leaders. But eventually Bosnians took
what Rome gave and made it their own. Like the family who's given a
nice, new home and tears up the patio for firewood and parks their cars
on the manicured front lawn.
Medieval Bosnia and Herzegovina developed, the independent Bosnian
church. And Bosnia evolved from this Roman base until the Ottoman
invasion. The Ottomans then all but erased Roman Bosnia and
Herzegovina. While sustinence and defense were the main purposes of
life during the Roman era, trade and fortification became the main
purposes of life during the Ottoman time. Farming villages were built
up with Carsijas, or marketplaces. The culture changed, became more
Eastern, more relaxed. An urban culture developed, something Bosnia and
Herzegovina had never really known. Islam was introduced, and became
dominant, accounting for more than 80% of Bosnians at several points
during the Empire's reign here.
During the Ottoman Empire we evolved and made it our own - so much so
that we rebelled against Ottoman rule. We had weird influences from
Sufi Islam and - oddly - Buddhism. Then we had our Roman Catholic base
and the greater immigration of Eastern Orthodox Christians (which
began, slowly, during the later years of the Bosnian kingdom), bringing
Byzantine influence.
Then the Austro-Hungarians came, another Roman Catholic empire. Roman
Catholicism in Bosnia and Herzegovina exploded in a revival of its
roots. Churches went up and even though the Austrians were very
respectful of Bosnia's Islamic character, the Roman Catholic
population, through re-conversion, more than doubled.
The Austrians imposed a European sternness on the haphazard Ottoman look and lifestyle of Bosnia and Herzegovina.
We broke away from that and ended up communist. And communism is the best way to really f--k a country up.
Then we tore the s--t out of each other and today - whether Muslim,
Roman Catholic, or Eastern Orthodox - we all sit in cafes drinking
Turkish coffee, in Ottoman-style carsijas, in cities with Austrian
buildings and Roman ruins, and call it all either Serbian, Bosnian, or
Croatian.
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