Author |
Share Topic Topic Search Topic Options
|
Mila
Tsar
Retired AE Moderator
Joined: 17-Sep-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4030
|
Quote Reply
Topic: Rapist sentenced to 20 years Posted: 13-Dec-2005 at 21:32 |
I still think it's a good thing, ill_teknique.
The people that were killed by our side deserve it, and especially their surviving loved ones need it.
I just hope it doesn't overshadow the nature of the conflict. If we get
10,000 Bosniaks and Croats convicted of murder, rape, torture...and one
Serb convicted of genocide, it still weighs differently to me. And the
same would be true in reverse.
Take WWII, for example. Bosniaks were Partizans, Bosniaks were Ustase,
Bosniaks were on every side you can think of. We were massacred as
well, especially along the Serbian border. On and on... but some of our
people were part of an organized campaign with the extention to
erradicate Jews, Serbs, and Gypsies. That's genocide, whether they used
the term back then or not, and that is worse.
|
[IMG]http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/9259/1xw2.jpg">
|
|
Cezar
Chieftain
Joined: 09-Nov-2005
Location: Romania
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1211
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 16-Dec-2005 at 09:20 |
The punishment for those individuals will never compensate their deeds. If it were about me, only a forced labour camp (for life!) would be a proper punishment. Keep them working till death. Something like communist labour camps we had here in Romania or Stalin in USSR. It might look unhuman but I think that such individuals are not to be considered human. No need for torture, just let them face a life of hard work (10-12h/day) with no chance of getting out of it. They might even be brought to work for the people who they hate most.
Mila said something about a half of Sarajevo being still in ruins (I don't exectly remember the topic). Bring the criminals back to rebulid it, or at least a part of it!
|
|
Mila
Tsar
Retired AE Moderator
Joined: 17-Sep-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4030
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 16-Dec-2005 at 11:30 |
Well, not really half, Cezar. Sarajevo's population dropped by roughly
200,000 between 1992 and 1995. In a census in 1996, only two buildings
were not damaged.
Remaining citizens fixed up their homes, the government fixed up
religious buildings and the downtown core. But you still have enough
infrastructure for 200,000 people which was not rebuilt because there's
no one to rebuild it for.
So refugees moved into these areas. Bosniaks, Bosnian Croats, Bosnian
Serbs, Gypsies, and later Kosovar Albanians. These areas all have
nicknames. Dobrinja district, for example, is Little Hiroshima.
Nedzarici is Stalingrad, etc. There are of course groupings in this
district where homes have been rebuilt (Anything facing main highways,
the airport, international hotels, etc.) but for the most part they
remain in ruins and are, officially, not populated. A Kosovar ALbanian
woman who took refuge in a ruin in Dobrinja, fixed it up with her own
sweat and blood, has been living there for half a 7 years now, can lose
it tomorrow if the pre-war owners decide to reclaim it.
That's what is tying the government's hands, from a legal standpoint,
of helping them in these homes. INstead they're trying to force them
into tent cities, etc.
Having the criminals work in these areas would only help illegal settlement, they'll never do it.
But they can't just sit on their asses either.
|
[IMG]http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/9259/1xw2.jpg">
|
|
Mila
Tsar
Retired AE Moderator
Joined: 17-Sep-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4030
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 16-Dec-2005 at 11:38 |
|
[IMG]http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/9259/1xw2.jpg">
|
|
Cezar
Chieftain
Joined: 09-Nov-2005
Location: Romania
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1211
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 16-Dec-2005 at 12:10 |
Sorry to ask but what's the difference between a Bosnian Serb/Croat and a Serb/Croat? Who are the Gypsies, or better said which Gypsies?
Who are these refugees? What were they fleeing of? Why did they came to Sarajevo?
Why are Albanians seeking refuge in Sarajevo?
|
|
Mila
Tsar
Retired AE Moderator
Joined: 17-Sep-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4030
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 16-Dec-2005 at 14:57 |
The short answer is most of them are neither Croats nor Serbs, but that
doesn't hold up today. If they want to be, they are - no one can deny
another people's right to national self-determination.
The differences between Bosnian Croats and Croatians has lessened since
the war because of introduced changes in linguistics, cultural
practices, and so on. Stereotypically speaking, Bosnian Croats would be
like Mexicans in the United States - twice
as Croatian simply to maintain their culture in a different nation.
They're thought to be more provincial, more rural in lifestyle, less
educated, less refined, and so on. These stereotypes were even stronger
before Bosnian Croats started enforcing the Croatian accent. If
Serbian, Bosnian, and Croatian were variations of English - Serbian
would be Australian, Croatian would be proper British, and Bosnian
would be African-American slang.
The differences between Bosnian Serbs and Serbs are largely the same.
Catholics and Orthodox Christians in Bosnia and Herzegovina were
overwhelmingly rural, while Bosniaks were well more than half urban.
You have "hick" stereotypes then against Bosnian Croats and Bosnian
Serbs that have nothing to do with nationality but more to do with
lifestyle. Those 30-something per cent of Bosniaks who lived in
villages are viewed in the same ways as well. Again, since the war
changes have been made to introduce proper Serbian - which is a more
drastic change than Croatian because Bosnian Serbs spoke with the
western dialect, as opposed to the eastern on dominant in Serbia and
Montenegro.
The Gypsies are Roma settlers who have been here for centuries. They
are predominantly Muslim - but like Bosniak highlanders, there is so
much influence from other belief systems than even Bosniaks in Sarajevo
would say it's too deviated to be considered Islam.
The Bosniak, Bosnian Croat, and Bosnian Serb refugees who have fled to
Sarajevo (and this is very important, each city attracted different
sorts of refugees for different reasons) are an interesting mix.
Bosniak refugees from across the country came simply because Sarajevo
is the capital and a safe place for Bosniaks to seek refuge. Bosnian
Croats who came to Sarajevo largely came from the surrounding villages
in the immediate vicinity. We also have many from Banja Luka. Most of
these Bosnian Croat refugees seem to consider Sarajevo a temporary stop
on their way to Banja Luka, Prijedor, or other cities where Bosnian
Croats were driven away. Bosnian Serbs who chose Sarajevo are largely
Yugoslavia-minded, left-wing idealists who never supported the war and
are horrified at the possibility of living anywhere near the Republika
Srpska. They have a Civic Union here which caters to the community, and
they're constantly in conflict with Serbia proper. For example, the
Serbian Orthodox Church has announced plans to close all churches
outside the Republika Srpska because Serbs in Sarajevo banned political
sermons.
Kosovo Albanians fled Kosovo and poured into every country around the
border. Many thousands crossed through the Sandzak and into Bosnia and
Herzegovina.
|
[IMG]http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/9259/1xw2.jpg">
|
|
Cezar
Chieftain
Joined: 09-Nov-2005
Location: Romania
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1211
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 16-Dec-2005 at 16:46 |
Only for Mila.
First of all, Thank you very much for answering my questions.
As for the answers, I can only state this: seems like nobody knows what is the best thing to declare regarding ethnicity. I'm sorry if that would offend you but to me there are no differences between Bosnian muslims/catholic christians/orthodox chritians/ serbs/ croats/ bosniaks / albanians, gypsies (or Roma, if you like). They seem to me like just some people who do not agree if there is something like light grey or dark grey.
I'm not where you are, I've never been there, so what I think may be wrong. I hope I never would have to face the horrors you/yours have dealed with!
I only think that for a matter so close to my country I'm not entitled to say something.
As for the topic , I stick to what I stated about the punishment.
|
|
Mila
Tsar
Retired AE Moderator
Joined: 17-Sep-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4030
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 16-Dec-2005 at 17:10 |
I just find that point of view so strange. Even if we spoke exactly the
same language and were all the same faith, our histories are more
different than most European neighbors. The Roman, Ottoman, and
Byzantine Empires were more different than France and Germany ever were.
We have only nominally more in common with each other than we do with all Slavs everywhere.
Croatians and Slovenians are more like Germans than they are like
Bosnians. Bosnians are more like Greeks and Turks than like Serbs.
Serbs are more like Russians than they are like Macedonians.
It's just something people from outside put on us. We're more than different enough to be considered separate nations.
Likewise, we have enough in common that we should be the closest of national friends.
|
[IMG]http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/9259/1xw2.jpg">
|
|
ill_teknique
Colonel
Joined: 28-Jun-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 636
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 17-Dec-2005 at 01:41 |
Originally posted by Mila
I just find that point of view so strange. Even if we spoke exactly the
same language and were all the same faith, our histories are more
different than most European neighbors. The Roman, Ottoman, and
Byzantine Empires were more different than France and Germany ever were.
We have only nominally more in common with each other than we do with all Slavs everywhere.
Croatians and Slovenians are more like Germans than they are like
Bosnians. Bosnians are more like Greeks and Turks than like Serbs.
Serbs are more like Russians than they are like Macedonians.
It's just something people from outside put on us. We're more than different enough to be considered separate nations.
Likewise, we have enough in common that we should be the closest of national friends.
|
so true. its just its kinda hard for people not familiar with it to
understand that. its amazing to some when you tell them you can
differntiate between a bosnian a croat and a serb. but to most from
bivsa jugoslavija thats not.lol.
|
|
ill_teknique
Colonel
Joined: 28-Jun-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 636
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 17-Dec-2005 at 01:47 |
My mom was in Velika Kladusa two years ago she says changed a lot but
still same crappy tensions. I havent been since like 97/98. so
close to 8 years.
|
|
Jay.
Chieftain
Joined: 24-Nov-2005
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1207
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 20-Dec-2005 at 15:27 |
What the hell?! 20 years, and that's it? That's insane. He should be sent to the front of the line for execution.
|
|
BMC21113
Consul
Joined: 17-Dec-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 357
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 20-Dec-2005 at 16:08 |
Here in the United States, we have a serious problem with light sentencing for rapists and child molestors. Personally, I feel as though rape is just as bad as murder. These people are extremely sick, and rehabilitation is extremely ineffective. Twenty years is not a just punishment for the lives that he has ruined. Rapists and child molestors are the most dispicable products of human society and deserve absolutely no sympathy. They could all receive life in prison or execution, makes no difference to me. Life in prison might be worse than death, as rapists and/or child predators do not rank very well on the prison hierarchy. They usually get what they deserve either way, and for very good reason.
Edited by BMC21113
|
"To be prepared for war is one of the most effective means of preserving peace"-George Washington
"The art of war is, in the last result, the art of keeping one's freedom of action."-Xenophon
|
|
BMC21113
Consul
Joined: 17-Dec-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 357
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 20-Dec-2005 at 16:25 |
Originally posted by jiangweibaoye
Originally posted by Genghis
What a sick son of a bitch, I don't think death is harsh enough for this bastard. Send him to an American prison where he can be raped and forced to feel the physical, emotional, and psychological pain he forced on all those people.
To hell with his human rights, this guy isn't a human being, he's a disgusting little worm.
|
Genghis,
Totally agree. All countries should observe Human Rights, but in the situation of genocide and rape, all bets are off. This man and his "men" deserves death and anything short of that is a great injustice to mankind.
It also angers me that the American media has not made this well known.
Jiangwei |
The American media lets alot of things slip....... If it doesn't further their own agenda......they do not care! Sadly, this is just another example of what weak sentencing does to people and their countries. They should of made an example out of this guy and his associates, as their are many people just like him. This grossly light sentencing sends the wrong message that you can commit the most disgusting acts of violence and degradation and get away with a "slap on the wrist." Granted, twenty years is a long time, but NOT for this case! Their are only several punishments fitting for this piece of trash..... 1. Send him to the USA for execution. 2. Give him to the families of his victims, as I am sure that they know what to do with him. or 3. Send him to Maximum lockup here in the States and he can be a girlfriend to "Big Tyrone" and his prison gang.
Edited by BMC21113
|
"To be prepared for war is one of the most effective means of preserving peace"-George Washington
"The art of war is, in the last result, the art of keeping one's freedom of action."-Xenophon
|
|