Paris riots

Originally posted by Exarchus They are the ones that made unemployment that high, growth that low and the weak economic context that made those surburbs devellop this way.

I guess that is a recognition of the government fault and the unhealthy growth of suburbs due to their policies.

Originally posted by Leonidas well its the case of the lesser of the two evils i guess. I just hope atleast his rhetoric is partly to blame for this shift and there is a line that french arent comfortible with. The strength of the right is worrisome, but these things come in cycles, when the right dont delever or stop delivering  then they get chucked out and  the otherside get a turn agian.

The strength of the Right is understandable due to the failures of the policies of the Left.

For many decades now, the immigration of those who have not assimilated, or who have not wanted to assimilate, into Franco-European culture has been setting the stage for what has recently transpired.  The Politically Correct mantra of "diversity" has been enunciated again and again.  Both the disinterest in assimilation, and the lack of encouragement for same have inevitably led to segregation, separatist identity and ill feeling on both sides.

What did the isolated French elites think was going to happen?  That their manifestos would make it all better?  France, great as she has been in her past, has been in denial.  Not admitting that large scale immigration from the Mahgreb could fatefully challenge France and French culture has been most ill-advised.  Now that there has been a substantial and widespread consequence to these immigration policies, those elites, with their Sorbonne educations and their $2,000 suits, need to think harder and to earn their salaries.  What is to happen next?

Does France think opposition to and disapproval of the war in Iraq holds her harmless from radical Islamist actions?  I don't think she is.

 

Edited by pikeshot1600

pikeshot1600 wrote:
"The strength of the Right is understandable due to the failures of the policies of the Left."
Failure of the left is much to do with the people as it does with the policies, so being Right doesnt mean that it naturally will succeed either. Im a proud swinging voter, I dont believe in dogmatic adhearance to any political theory. Sometimes you need a bit of left approach for some situations and a bit of the old right for others. At this moment, some real progressive thinking that has so far been lacking (from both sides from the looks of it) is what is really needed. This is situation that both sides could of fixed long ago. But definatly not this lock the doors where being overtaken by "scum" approach from the Right wingers.

BTW in Aus it was our version of the "left" that liberalised and opened up the economy so go figure on correct labelling.

"For many decades now, the immigration of those who have not assimilated, or who have not wanted to assimilate, into Franco-European culture has been setting the stage for what has recently transpired"
Assimilation goes both ways, accepting the immigrants for what they are helps them accept what is around them. Rascism either directly felt or implied is just as big a factor. This is a society either not able or atleast ready to accomidate more than one type of culture, and this is just as much their fault than the people they shut out.

Originally posted by pikeshot1600 Oh, which trash websites would you recommend?

I've been reading the BBC mostly, the oficial media of the best US ally.

The Politically Correct mantra of "diversity" has been enunciated again and again.

This comment alone shows you don't know anything about France. You are just another Yankee who thinks everywhere is like America. And you are trying to score some points for your side in America, by coming up with this neuron-free analysis of France.

Here's the news for you, the French have a different social integration model than the Anglo-Saxon one. They don't talk about 'diversity', but about French values, which are based on enlightenment, and say that everyone who has these values is French like any other. So on paper Ali is as French as Alain, but in reality, he gets discriminated against.

So, no 'diversity mantra' for France. UK, on the other hand, talks about diversity, and they have much better situation, ethnic relations wise.

Edited by Beylerbeyi

Wikipedia has this nice animation on the spread of the riots. I think it's a good update:



And also this graphic on their intensity:

yeah, you're right on that Maju. Integration works both ways. Also depends how you define integration.

More analysis on the rioters. THis is quite interesting take on its all.

The "Non-Political" Nature of the November Riots
"What is striking about today's French riots are their "non-political" nature. That does not mean, of course, that politics do not play a role. Instead, it means that those gangs performing the violent actions do not propose anything politically subversive, nor really anything political at all. In addition, it means that the rioters will get little or no support from other French people.

In fact, the rioters do not fight for civil or human rights. They know that the French government has already given them such rights. However, they perceive such rights as purely formal and institutional, but not actual. According to some interviewed youths, the very fact to be born in a suburban area and to keep a non-European cultural identity (Islam and Arab names) creates a specific representation of their relationship with France.

The rioters argue that they feel scorned upon, and therefore react with anger and rage. They are citizens of France without being part of the French national identity. On the basis of the available information, it is possible to exclude Islamism from the causes of the rioting. It is not religious extremism, but ethnic friction which has the great effect of exacerbating social differences.

Individually, or even taken as a group, the rioters seem to be revolting against their own condition and context. They destroy their own quarters, their neighbor's vehicle or small enterprise. Their actions look as a desperate attempt to signal their will to access the "wealthy society." Such a society may be just five underground train stops away. Still, they almost never go there. They act in their own environment, as if they were unable to move -- limiting their free movement inside their own country."

Unfortunalty the article predicts a right wing response

The Bottom Line

"The French government decided to adopt a hard line against rioters, and the last surveys indicate that three out of four French citizens support the introduction of curfews in the affected suburbs. The coming days will probably be decisive to assess the efficiency of such measures. Should the move fail, the revolt could spread further and even pave the way for foreign activists with plans of terrorism (as French Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy suggests).

As the 2007 general election approaches, look for immigration and integration issues to take central stage permanently in the French political debate. Depending on the chosen national policies in these fields, expect France to try to influence its European partners to introduce new European legislation on immigration issues, and, if such an attempt fails, to enhance its own national program even in opposition of Brussels.

Since the French right-wing is split among many factions, be prepared for a harsh battle inside the French Right. French Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin is probably the one who risks the most in the present phase for the simple reason of being the prime minister during this time. If the security issue does not get solved rapidly, his entire political agenda will be severely hampered and his ambitious industrial policy will be difficult to maintain.

Moreover, given the loss of momentum of Jean-Marie Le Pen's rightist National Front, an interesting competition will take place between the neo-liberal Nicolas Sarkozy and the Catholic sovereignist leader Philippe de Villiers."

the whole article


Edited by Leonidas