Paris riots

They don't follow Islam. They just have (most) an Islamic cultural background but the rioters don't go to the mosque, at least most of them. They are as agnostic and irreligious as any other French or European. In this sense I think that they are well integrated. 

Originally posted by Exarchus People who were expecting a revolution will be disapointed, and proven wrong.

I don't think anyone here expected a revolution more than just a social riot.

Also, the LCI poll is not a quiet great measurement to be taken seriously. I still recall LCI showing 52% for Yes to EU constitution on April 30th 2005, which proved wrong later.  Anyhow, I don't think the social riot will go beyod its current situation. Though the riot was unorganized and not clear in its demands, it defnitely woke up France to a painful reality whcih caused the establishment of anti-racism agencies, promises of social reform, and employment plan correction. A more honest approach to the public than pre-riot France

Originally posted by Maju They don't follow Islam. They just have (most) an Islamic cultural background but the rioters don't go to the mosque, at least most of them. They are as agnostic and irreligious as any other French or European. In this sense I think that they are well integrated.

If only, I know one, who doesn't eat pork because of his religion. I say fair enough, it doesn't matter to me. But I had him at my gates completly drunk one night. So much for islam.

They are religious, but they twist islam in their own way.
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Originally posted by Exarchus They are religious, but they twist islam in their own way.

Same thing with people who call themselves "Christian" and go to church when they have had plenty of pre-marital sex and drunken episodes. Every group has people like this.

Originally posted by Exarchus As much as telling them to move out is out of proportion, I would say living in a rich and develloped country like France, with a strong social protection and so on is no birthright.

Actually it is birthright.

Put the blame on the Kurds, like if they are living in Turkey because if it's their wish. 

Update: riots in the center of Lyon despite the many police and the announced curfew.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4430540.stm

The trouble in Lyon began at about 1700 (1600 GMT) on Place Bellecour where a large number of riot police were on duty as a preventative measure.

About 50 youths attacked stalls and damaged vehicles, witnesses were quoted as saying by Reuters news agency.

The strongest unrest yesterday night was reported in Lyon and Tolouse, while Paris is under a ban of any kind of meetings for all the weekend. 

Modern democracy is 18th/19th century BC.

BC?

Has anyone got any link with what other ethnic or religious groups beside the N.African Blacks and Arabs Muslims are taking part in the riots??

Theres been mention of regular French kids taking part. bare in mind that much of the 'rioting' is just teenagers ziping around on scooters, torching stuff, and then zipping away again. Theres a lot of people joining in for kicks inevitably. Some of the 'rioiting' that apparently 'splled over' into Belgium, was actualy some extreme leftists throwing a molotov cocktail at some Flams Blok (extreme rightists) place, which isn't especialy related, but got swept in the whole' riots all over Europe' reporting vibe.

They are religious, but they twist islam in their own way.

It is my understanding that in France, just like in the Netherlands, Mosque attendance has been falling for a decade. The younger generation may identify with the religion as an identity within their society, but they aren't intrested in hanging around in mosques listening to older farts. Which is why stuff like that council issuing a fatwa is worthless, more intended for those groups to appear important and influencial as self-appointed community leaders in the eyes of the press and politicians than anything else.

Some other comments/updates from local Basque press (http://gara.euskalherria.com/idatzia/20051114/art138631.php):

The EU tries to avoid the debate on the excluded ones despite the French explossion.

Fights increase in in Lyon, while Belgian police arrests half a hundred youngsters in Brussels.

The European Union looks cautiously to the uprising that started already more than two weeks but doesn't want to treat in depth a phenomenon that is common to many member states: the increasing social and economic exclusion and marginalization of wide layers of society. The uprising meanwhile has expanded from Paris, taken by the police, to neighbour states, particularly Belgium, with massive police interventions.

So far the header, now let's see some most interesting remarks:

...

Greek diary "Ta Nea" confirmed this weekend that "France is the capital of European failure in inmigration matters".

...

Jos� Saramago, Nobel Prize of Literature, advses on the urgency of dealing with the situation of the excluded of Europe before uprisings of this sort extend to other countries of the Union.

The Prime Minister of the Republic of Ireland, Bertie Ahern, made an appeal to watch to prevent the creation of inmigrant ghettoes that can exlode as in the French case.

...

Confronted to the image of France as "the country of art, fashion, culture and gastronomy", Japanese [media] can't hide their surprise. [Russian] sociologst Lev Godukov points out that "France is for Russians an ideal country, kind of a utopy of civilized country (...) We are in a state of shock". The press of the USA attacks without compassion "a country willing to give lessons to everyone".

Originally posted by Leonidas AS the smoke clears those that talked along the lines of Mr "scum" Sarkozy will see their knee jerk comments and overall attitudes are just narrow calls that ignore the bigger issues. Update: Opinion polls are starting to favour the softer line (of the two) Villepin (52% vs 44%) source

Obviously the nice cop is always the favorite of the two... but they work in a team.

Anyhow, while I don't have right now any source, I recall yesterday reading that the opinion polls also showed a major increase of Le Pen and the sinking of Socialists, who inmersed in their own inner disputes have been as invisible as Chirac or more.

While obviously this is a major challenge for France and all Europe and I hope we have heard the alarm and will react constructively, the fact is that for many people of native background, whose xenophobic tendencies were already strong, this conflict seems only to mean an obscure danger that they may want to deal with in a fascist way.

Europe (and France specially) has already strong neo-fascist xenophobic political currents and this may even reinforce them, I fear. Meanwhile the class war component (dominant, no doubt) may remain hidden behind the curtain of ethnic conflict.