Author |
Share Topic Topic Search Topic Options
|
Maju
King
Joined: 14-Jul-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6565
|
Quote Reply
Topic: Paris riots Posted: 04-Nov-2005 at 13:25 |
Yes, most of the cars burned obviously belong to locals, I guess that some of the buildings/stores are too.
Anyhow, the deportation attitude makes no sense: these people are all
French (and EU citizens) like any other. Unless people like Cattus want
to repeat the "feats" of Hitler and co., there's no legal alternative.
Of course you can put some of the rioters in jail but that should be
according to legal procedures.
When these kind of riots happened in the 90s, 80s or the 60s the
ethnical issue wasn't present (though in the 90s it played a role), and
nobody was so nazi as to call for the deportation of the French youth
involved. These people speak French with Parisian accent, they have
studied in French public schools and they have French and European
passports.
Here there are some BBC articles on how France, despite the legal
inexistence of racism, has still a deep racist attitude that hinders
the progress (and integration) of French of African ascendance:
And HERE you can find an update: politicians (including Sarkozy) think that the current conflict will need some time to be solved.
And an impressive image of a carpet store burning:
Btw, the riots are still extending to other cities: new inccidents have been reported in Dijon, Marseilles and Rouen.
Edited by Maju
|
NO GOD, NO MASTER!
|
|
hugoestr
Tsar
Suspended
Joined: 13-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3987
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 04-Nov-2005 at 13:07 |
Seriously, I feel deeply for the people living in the riot zones. Riots like this normally hurt the most the same communities where they happen.
At the end of the day it is not rioters hurting the government, but it is rioters hurting their own people.
|
|
hugoestr
Tsar
Suspended
Joined: 13-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3987
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 04-Nov-2005 at 13:03 |
Maybe Bush can lend some cells in Guantanamo Bay for the rioters. That will teach them...
|
|
pikeshot1600
Tsar
Joined: 22-Jan-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4221
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 04-Nov-2005 at 12:56 |
Originally posted by Cywr
Its pretty funny, following the response to this on some other forums.
People who are otherwise conservative (right across the spectrum),
instead of arguing for economic reform in France to make the economy
more flexible, and thus lower unemployment and improve the lot of the
most deprived by magical supplyside economics, call for deportation of
French citizens (to where? France?) and the need to 'show those scum,
bla bla'.
I guess inside most neo-liberals theres a closet protectionist waiting to come out.
|
People are people. They often favor "doing the right thing" until that starts to affect their interests negatively.
|
|
cattus
Arch Duke
Retired AE Moderator
Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1803
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 04-Nov-2005 at 12:32 |
How about jail or North Africa for the ones from there.
How would you feel if it was your company or truck they were destroying, would you be asking for more tolerance?
Have they not made their point yet, what is the solution now, do nothing, tough police or an intallation of Sharia?
|
|
Cywr
King
Retired AE Moderator
Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6003
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 04-Nov-2005 at 06:59 |
Its pretty funny, following the response to this on some other forums.
People who are otherwise conservative (right across the spectrum),
instead of arguing for economic reform in France to make the economy
more flexible, and thus lower unemployment and improve the lot of the
most deprived by magical supplyside economics, call for deportation of
French citizens (to where? France?) and the need to 'show those scum,
bla bla'.
I guess inside most neo-liberals theres a closet protectionist waiting to come out.
|
Arrrgh!!"
|
|
Maju
King
Joined: 14-Jul-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6565
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 03-Nov-2005 at 23:41 |
Update: riots continue after a week. The department of Seine-St. Denis
and (in more sporadic manner) other suburban districts of Paris keep
suffering riots with buildings and vehicles set ablaze and even
shotings against the police. In thursday there were some riots also in
the city of Dijon (Burgundy).
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4405620.stm
58238A873.htm">http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/10EF12 51-D5F3-4C99-B62E-E58238A873.htm
According to basque newspaper GARA, the
police station of Antony (Hauts-de-Seine) was attacked yesterday with
molotov cocktails (hand-made incendiary bombs). In Aulnay, three
journalist of France 2 TV channel were forced to get out their vehicle
that was then set ablaze. Shots have been fired against the police in
some places without causing any injuried so far.
Fascist leader Le Pen accuses the government of doing nothing "while
France is being attacked by foreign hordes" (sic). Foreign hordes that
include kids as young as 10, born all in Ille-de-France. The rebel
youngsters seem to be ready to continue with the fight, an informal
speaker declared that "this is going to continue until Sarkozy
(Minister of the Interior) renounces".
The terms "war" and "urban guerrilla" have now become widespread in
European media when informing of this conflict. Even Beijing News opens
with the Parisian revolt and alerts against inmigration.
Tariq Ramadan, member of a special comitee of the British Government to
deal with the background of the London attacks denounces that "we send
police and not social services. We are confronting ghettos". He said to
Sarkozy that "you can't insult people. They are French citizens. We
must talk with them. They want to be part of the solution, not to be
percieved just as the problem".
On the ground mediators insist that police must retire to avoid provocations. How will this end?
Some images (from BBC):
|
NO GOD, NO MASTER!
|
|
Cywr
King
Retired AE Moderator
Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6003
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 03-Nov-2005 at 03:17 |
Damn, having a discussion with some boneheads on another forum, people
can't seem to understand that maybe people might be angry over the fact
taht they have higher unemployment rates, generaly have a harder time
finding jobs and have zero represntation in parliamanet (in sharp
contrast to some other European countries that have smaller migrant
populations).
No, its, "well they shouldn't riot" or "maybe if they got good
educations" or even "why should they be allowed in parliament".
Nananana i can't hear you.
Theres a reason France has more severe problems with immigrants than
other European countries, and thats because they are relativly worse
off there in many areas. But i guess we should ignore that.
We need an Emporer Nero smilie.
|
Arrrgh!!"
|
|
Constantine XI
Suspended
Suspended
Joined: 01-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5711
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 03-Nov-2005 at 00:29 |
Originally posted by Leonidas
We had a similar situation in sydney, (being australian on much a
smaller scale 1 nite), when a aborigine kid impaled himself on a fence
while being chased by police (which also denied they were chasing him)
|
He actually managed to impale himself on a SAFETY FENCE, how I don't
know. In any case it opened up a flood of violence against police,
vandalism and consequent sympathy for the aboriginal community from
some groups. So are the police responsible for his death?
Well I pose this: if the police were not chasing him, obviously they
were not. If the police were chasing him, why was he running (or riding
his bike as the case actually was)? It isn't like they actually pushed
him onto a fence (a safety fence at that). So if one rally car driver
was killed in the lead after he crashed because the other rally car
drivers were "chasing" him, does that mean the other rally car drivers
should be charged with his murder?
POST 1000!
|
|
Maju
King
Joined: 14-Jul-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6565
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 02-Nov-2005 at 11:14 |
Update: president Chirac intervenes to calm down the situation.
Originally posted by BBC
"The law must be applied in a spirit of dialogue and respect," Mr Chirac said.
"A lack of dialogue and an escalation of disrespectful
behaviour will lead to a dangerous situation," he told a cabinet
meeting, according to a spokesman.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4399510.stm
|
At the following link, you can see some pictures of the clashes, in sort of a timeline of the events: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/4399456.stm
And this is a background article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4399748.stm
|
NO GOD, NO MASTER!
|
|
Leonidas
Tsar
Joined: 01-Oct-2005
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4613
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 02-Nov-2005 at 07:59 |
Nup, it was never proven. I dont remember anyone getting into trouble
in the end. while the indigenous community in that part of the
city (and others) feel short changed by it all.
|
|
Cywr
King
Retired AE Moderator
Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6003
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 02-Nov-2005 at 07:50 |
Was it ever verified whether or not they were chasing him? The Aussie police that is.
|
Arrrgh!!"
|
|
Leonidas
Tsar
Joined: 01-Oct-2005
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4613
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 02-Nov-2005 at 07:45 |
We had a similar situation in sydney, (being australian on much a
smaller scale 1 nite), when a aborigine kid impaled himself on a fence
while being chased by police (which also denied they were chasing him)
|
|
Cywr
King
Retired AE Moderator
Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6003
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 02-Nov-2005 at 07:20 |
All things considered, its pretty stuoid to hide in an electricity
substation, i mean, don't they have TV adds warning kids how dangerous
this is in France?
|
Arrrgh!!"
|
|
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 02-Nov-2005 at 07:14 |
again a Revolution in Paris?
it is about time, the last one was already 37 years ago
|
|
Maju
King
Joined: 14-Jul-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6565
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 02-Nov-2005 at 06:52 |
I don't know if our French members can add some useful info to this
matter but I fear that it is becoming something than a punctual
conflict: for 6 days many areas of Paris have been scenario of violent
clashes between youths and the police. Declarions of right-wing
interior minister Nicolas Sarkozy that the rioters are "scum" (or
"rabble" depending on the translation) have only fueled the imprecise
conflict that started when three people got electrocuted when
(apparently) hiding in an electric substation from a police chase.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4395294.stm
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/257461EE-4259-42A7-AB 98-B712ACE87615.htm
Ethnic and economic tensions are behind the explosion of anger. See this background article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4375910.stm
According to Basque newspaper Gara,
Socialist opposition has strongly critizied the government and
particularly Mr. Sarkozy for falling into the "war dialectics" with his
comments and attitude.
Spanish alternative news site La Haine
comments that the causes behind are high unemployement rates among the
Parisian youth of inmigrant origins and that the violent attitude of
Parisian police is not doing but to fuel the conflict.
|
NO GOD, NO MASTER!
|
|