Vikings and the Sami (Lapps)

An adjacent question: Are the Sami any way realated to Suomi (Finnish)? I heard they were both originally from Asia.

Originally posted by Wrageowrapper The Sami are not a homogenous people. The finnish suomi are still regarded as Sami however. As with any indigenous peoples the Sami had different tribes and it was outsiders who just bundled them up with one name, originally the Lapps as in Lapland.

No, the s�mi - my ancestors  - were never organised in tribes (as often erroneously stated). The traditional s�mi hunting-community was the siida - a group of related extended-families - often not more than 50 or so people.

The s�mi and the finns/suomi are related, in fact the s�mi languages are closest related to finnish and estonian.

There are no evidence of military clashes between vikings and s�mi - since the latter never had any substantial military organisation to offer recistance. For example, the 9th century Ottar relation speaks of s�mi reindeer hunters forced to pay tribute to the norwegian chief Ottar. But there were some fighting - not with the norse people but against other finno-ugric peoples. Many s�mi legends speak of resistance against maurauding chuds - identified with karelians and ests. These fights were probably small guerilla operatons rather than real battles

 

/Mikael

Edited by Mangudai

Did the Finns and Estonians live similarly to the Sami before the Germans/Vikings conquered them?

Did Sami join the vikings, are Sami vikings.

Theres nothing to say sone Sami couldn't have been vikings. It was after all, an occupation
Wouldn't suprise me if a few of them did give up the life of the nomadic herder for a shot at looting the wealthy monestries of the British isles.

An adjacent question: Are the Sami any way realated to Suomi (Finnish)? I heard they were both originally from Asia.

All Europeans are technicly speaking, except the ones decendant from those who moved north through Iberia.
Theres a theory the Fenn-urgic speakers were in Europe before Indo-Europeans speakers showed up, 10,000, 12,000 or how ever many years ago that was.


Edited by Cywr

Originally posted by Wrageowrapper Did they get into a lot of conflict with Pagan Vikings and Christian Scandinavians from 1000ad till around 1600ad or not. Were there any major battle between Germanic Scandinavians and Sami. Did Sami join the vikings, are Sami vikings. I dont know...please tell me.

There is no detail historical records of the Viking Age in Sweden. Those
merely deals with Danes and Norwegians. Earlier, Icelandic sagas
(sometimes called 'Norse sagas') was cited very much without criticism.

It is a matter of opinion if you want to include Sami as "Vikings." It is,
however, possible that "viking ships" are of Uralic origin if it not is
Slavic... It was shared by all ethnic groups in Nordic during the Viking
Age. Most ships excavated are, however, found in North Scandinavia
(Svea- and Norrland/Finland) and North Polen (Pomerania).

The Norwegian Otthere, messenger to King Alfred the Great of England,
mention that Quens (Cwens), i.e. rulers over the far North, sometimes
attacked Norwegians, sometimes Norwegians attacked Quens. Sometimes
it was peace. Here is the Quen Sea believed to be Gulf of Bothnia, that's it,
northern Baltic Sea. It is possible that Otthere count Sami amongst
'Suedes' (Swedes), it is possible they are not mentioned at all. Some
considers his report about Fenni adheres to Laplanders, althought he
located Fenland the east of Gandvik (White Sea) which is non-Sami
territories. The Icelandic sagas mentions in one tale that the relation
between Fenni (Sami) and Norwegian (Vikings) was tight due to an earlier
coincident.

The Norwegian law from around 1150s forbidden Norwegian interaction
with Sami, due to the latter might had heathenry influence on them. It
state that the man who take medical treatment (blood-stagging, etc.) or
advice (supernational answers, etc.) from magicians (shamans) will get
punished.

When Sweden was founded, Laplanders was really adored by writers such
as Olaus Magnus (1550s). He concluded; the colder, the cruler peoples.
He even used this region in some kind of propaganda that stated it was
part of the paradise, i.e. the highest level of human civilisation
development, where e.g. no money was used, no wars, etc. In reality,
these groups were still heathenry, money was abscence due to un-trust,
etc.

When Sweden was a much larger country that it is now, some Germans
etablished rumours that Swedes used 'Sami magic' to raise their warfare
capability. This was the start of the great work done by Johannes
Schefferus in 17th century. Its aim was to meet these rumours and show
that Sami was not Swedes, but adapted and abridged editions quickly
appeared in Germany et al with more rumours about so-called 'Sami
magic'. [This is commented in the Swedish edition of Lapponia.]

Just a short summary :-)

P.S. Cwen is considered to be root for King, so if you want we can divide
Scandinavia into Kings and Vikings. :-). D.S.

Originally posted by Evildoer An adjacent question: Are the Sami any way realated to Suomi (Finnish)? I heard they were both originally from Asia.

Intrestingly, the adornment pattern on vessels in Northern Scandinavia
remiscents very much of Neolithic Jomon (rope pattern) from Jomon
Culture in Japan. The Scandinavian vessels dates from around 5000-1000
BP, thus some kind of pre-historic relation is likely. These vessels are
somewhat still mysterious; its usage is unknown.

Edited by Hrodger

Originally posted by Kuu-ukko The S�mi did not use <span style="font-weight: bold;">steel</span>spears, because that would require settling down and learning metalwork, both of which the S�mi don't master.

As far as I know the metal introducing is today rather considered to be
one of Laplanders ancestors (c.p. Ananjino Culture), besides Celtic
influence. (Some Celtic adornment is even still preserved in their
traditional clothing!)

Originally posted by kuu-ukko The S�mi did not use ships for sailing seas. They might have had canoe- resembling vehicles for rivers or streams, however

I strongly suggest you to read Christer Westerdahl et al papers for more
information on boat-builting in Northern Europe (Its more 'recent', i.e.
from 1980s.)

No. It consists of two parts: Maa and Rahvas. Maa is in the same form in Finnish and means in Finnish "earth/ soil". Rahvas is also in the same form in Finnish, in Finnish meaning "commoner". Someone Estonian can enlighten if I'm incorrect, but basically it translates as "(indigenous?) commoner", whereas Magyar comes from proto-Ugric  word *mańć- meaning "man,person".

I believe the Estonians called themselves that because from the 13th to the 16th the Germans ruled Baltia, and heavily influenced the Estonian language and culture. The Germans settled in as landlords and nobles,whereas the subjugated Estonians became farmers, thus the name "maarahvas".

Yes they are all from the same rootword as the Finnish tribe h�me, Latvian sem, samoyed samo and Russian semlja, all, like you said meaning "earth".

Point to make on why there aren't historical records for "Sweden" in the early Medieval era.  Sweden didn't exist.  Norway and the Dane Mark existed, therefore any documents from the era would refer to name places OTHER THAN Sweden, although local place names have remained the same/similar to our modern times.  People today really do need to realize just because there aren't any records dated to the 12th Century about the United States of America, doesn't mean that literate people didn't visit, hunt, settle along the coast under another name--say Vinland (the land of the vine).