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Vikings and the Sami (Lapps)

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  Quote Inah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Vikings and the Sami (Lapps)
    Posted: 27-Feb-2009 at 06:19

Hrodger

Quote:

"Are Finns and Estonians ashamed to be related to Sami?"

Had always felt that Saami and Karelians must have mixed once upon a time at least and had also always suspected some Saami 'bloodlines' in the family.

Now that relatives DNA-tests are coming in with lines that can be traced back to my g-g-grandmothers (on both sides), my suspicions have been validated.

Am I ashamed to be related to Saami ? No way ! If anything, I am so very proud of this connection. (Hence revitalized this old thread).

Shouldn't go calling myself Saami though, as "Saami" is very much a cultural-identity thing, but nevertheless this has helped me understand the psycho-spiritual connection which did become apparent with the Saami I have known.

I don't think that "our" (Saami-Karelian) ancestors discriminated between "races".  People were given names according to their lifestyles, according to their livelihoods. Have read that the term "Lapp" originally didn't mean Saami as such, the term was given to anyone who preferred to remain living the hunting and gathering lifestyle. (One side of my family was also given a name, and this was because they practiced agriculture supplemented by hunting and because of the particular Nature Deity they worshipped).

I also did read somewhere that with the arrival of more Germanic peoples later; - onto the scene, people became more "racially categorized".

Don't know, could be.

Sounds somewhat familiar anyway.

 

 

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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Aug-2005 at 02:34
On Sami genetics, a very interesting topic, Cavalli-Sforza (1996) says:

Lapps are genetically Europeans, but they are the ones that have the more differentiated genes from the rest of Europeans, almost for sure due to their partial trans-Uralian origin. Their genetic simmilitude with Europeans suggests that they were Uralic in origin and got very mixed with Northern Europeans (or vice versa: in any case the European element predominates in them). The other peoples that speak Uralic tongues in Northern Europe have almost no genetic mark of Uralic origin, but Finns, and even more Hungarians, show a very diffuse one (about 12% of Uralic genes among Hungarians).

Map of the 2nd Principal Component of the European Genome (vaguely attributed to Uralic origins and most concentrated in Lappland):


Genetic separation tree of Humankind. Notice how Sami (Lapones, sorry about the names in Spanish) are the most separated of all Caucasian groups, due precisely to their strong Nord-Asian mixture:
(Note: the Caucasic branch itself is considered to be the less purely Asian of all, due to early admixture with members of the African branch, probably in their original homeland of the Near East).

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  Quote the_ancient_lunatic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Aug-2005 at 01:15

I remember reading somehwere that a few Sami traveled around telling telling stories, or sagas....like traveling mintrel types.

...but now I can't find that reference....

Does anyone know if this is true?

...jag lskar mina svrd...
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  Quote Menippos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jul-2005 at 20:11
Originally posted by Kuu-ukko


The Estonians call themselves "eestlane(plural eestlased)", sometimes "maarahvas".


"Maarahvas" meaning "people of the land"
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jul-2005 at 10:08

Hi all. I am a nebie. Now I know I should lurk first, but I have some serious work to do. I am in need of info. I am a psychic reader and over a year ago, I predicted something and this week it came to pass. It was only one of many things to follow. This is not the adverage prediction. I have these visions with images and the funny thing is, they come and stay on my bathroom wall or floor. Considering the attack the other day in London, this was the beginning of my prediction. I had a vision of the 5 Olympic rings and a man skiing in motion. The same day this attack occured, London won the bid for the next place for the Olymics. I found that a bid baffling. Yes, I know this is a weird post, but since I see this first piece falling into place, I need help with the other. I know they say history repeats itself. So, I stumbled across you group. The following things are what were in my vision next. I would appreciate any information on the history of Japan and the Vikings please. I did find that the Vikings were from England in the beginning. I think. London maybe?

Ok, on to the vision and symbols in my bathroom. I know it's weird, but please help me if you can with info.

The 5 Olympic rings and a man skiing in motion on my bathroom floor. The stickman with a stick through his head/globe? Looks like a globe more than a stickman. A Japenese soldier man with the wound and bandage over his right eye and across his nose, and a heavy Viking man in the back ground shaking his fists up in the air. An Eagle flying in motion with his wings spread. Blue dophins and Mother Teresa. A man with White glowing Angels coming out of his clothes. I know somehow all of these connect. Could this have been a prediction of a world attack? Using the Olympics as a battleground? There are so many more symbols and faces in my bathroom. And I wonder if these are the people eho are innocent bystanders or if they are the Angels and Guides of the innocent bystanders? This has me baffled and amazed! Never did I ever dream my Olympic rings and the Skiier would be so profound!

 

Any help would be fantastic please. Thank you.

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  Quote Tiera Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Mar-2005 at 11:07
Finns and Sami are NOT very different from a genetic perspective. They are somewhat different (overall, Scandinavians and the Sami are closer to each other than Finns and Scandinavians, which is EXACTLY what one would expect from peoples of close proximity. The Gulf of Bothnia being more of a barrier). There IS of course the Sami motive which makes the Sami distinctive of both Scands and Finns. Everything is relative of course. Depends on which genetic marker you choose to study. The world of the genome is wild. Check out www.oxfordancestors.com/papers/mtDNA04%Saami.pdf (Am. J. Hum. Genet. 74:661-682, 2004) if you like.
I was surprised by the Y-chromosomal marker R1a frequencies: Altaians 47%, Maris 48%, Poles and Ukranians 55%, Danes-Norwegians-Swedes 16-24%, Saami 18%, Finns 8%. Also this: "Second, the much higher diversity of N3 in eastern Europe than in Siberia suggests that eastern Europe, rather than Siberia, is a possible origin of the earliest expansion of this haplogroup in northern Eurasia."
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  Quote wilpuri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Mar-2005 at 17:23

Genetically, Finns and Smi are 'very' different. Finns are much closer to Swedes than Smi. The languages are distant relatives.

During the viking age, the Smis were mostly taxed by Norwegians, vikings if you will, Kvens (Fin. Tribe on both sides of Bothnia) and Karelians. I doubt the Smi waged war on a large scale against anyone ever.

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  Quote Hrodger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Feb-2005 at 05:22
Originally posted by Styrbiorn

Why would they be that?

It sounded like that in the discussion above.


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  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jan-2005 at 05:01
Originally posted by Hrodger

Are Finns and Estonians ashamed to be related to Sami?

Why would they be that?
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  Quote Kuu-ukko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2005 at 08:56

I can say for myself, that I'm certainly NOT. I think their language is beautiful, but yet again reflecting the cold homeland of the Smi. I also admire their way to preserve their culture and way of life until the 21st century and beyond. I shouldn't think that Finns on the whole are ashamed of the Smi either. I can't say for sure about Estonians, but I'd think they're not ashamed either.

Thanks and bye for now  

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  Quote Hrodger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jan-2005 at 12:18
Are Finns and Estonians ashamed to be related to Sami?
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  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2004 at 09:06

Originally posted by pytheas

Point to make on why there aren't historical records for "Sweden" in the early Medieval era.  Sweden didn't exist.  Norway and the Dane Mark existed, therefore any documents from the era would refer to name places OTHER THAN Sweden, although local place names have remained the same/similar to our modern times.  People today really do need to realize just because there aren't any records dated to the 12th Century about the United States of America, doesn't mean that literate people didn't visit, hunt, settle along the coast under another name--say Vinland (the land of the vine).

As pointed out, Sweden existed. The earliest reference of the Swedes is probably Tacitus, and if I am not recalling erroneously, Beowulf contains the first physical mention of the kingdom itself (Swiorice in Old Saxon, Svariki Old Norse).

 

Yes, but much later - 1815-1905 

And also in a brief period in the 14th century - Magnus Eriksson was king of Sweden and Norway 1319-50 (and sole king of Sweden to -64, and king of Skne 1332-60).

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  Quote Kuu-ukko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Dec-2004 at 11:14
Originally posted by Mangudai


Not caucasians you say? I'm 50 % smi - why then am I white-skinned (in fact I'm really pale ), blu-eyed and blond?



Thats just splitting hairs! What I meant was, that originally the Smi were/are not genetically part of Caucausians, being shorter and having a flatter forehead for example. I was talking about the 100% smi. Besides, your 50% smi, which means you also could have inherited your smi side. Its just a matter of chance.

Thank you and goodbye.
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  Quote Mangudai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Dec-2004 at 04:34

Originally posted by pytheas

I might be wrong here, but Norway and Sweden were ruled jointly, no?

Yes, but much later - 1815-1905 

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  Quote pytheas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Dec-2004 at 01:52
I might be wrong here, but Norway and Sweden were ruled jointly, no?
Truth is a variant based upon perception. Ignorance is derived from a lack of insight into others' perspectives.
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  Quote Mangudai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2004 at 16:00

Originally posted by pytheas

Point to make on why there aren't historical records for "Sweden" in the early Medieval era.  Sweden didn't exist.  Norway and the Dane Mark existed, therefore any documents from the era would refer to name places OTHER THAN Sweden, although local place names have remained the same/similar to our modern times.  People today really do need to realize just because there aren't any records dated to the 12th Century about the United States of America, doesn't mean that literate people didn't visit, hunt, settle along the coast under another name--say Vinland (the land of the vine).

Sure it did exist, from the early 11th century and onwards. But then, it depends on what you mean with early medieval era 

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  Quote pytheas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2004 at 11:51
Point to make on why there aren't historical records for "Sweden" in the early Medieval era.  Sweden didn't exist.  Norway and the Dane Mark existed, therefore any documents from the era would refer to name places OTHER THAN Sweden, although local place names have remained the same/similar to our modern times.  People today really do need to realize just because there aren't any records dated to the 12th Century about the United States of America, doesn't mean that literate people didn't visit, hunt, settle along the coast under another name--say Vinland (the land of the vine).
Truth is a variant based upon perception. Ignorance is derived from a lack of insight into others' perspectives.
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  Quote Mangudai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2004 at 05:52

Originally posted by Kuu-ukko



Mangudai:
The Smi did not use steel spears, because that would require settling down and learning metalwork, both of which the Smi don't master. 

You're right, they perhaps didn't use steel, but they did used iron spears - traded from norse and baltic peoples

Do you seriously question that smi have the ability settle down? What about my smi acestors then, who were farmers for generations?

Originally posted by Kuu-ukko

The Smi are, however, genetically unique, since they are not part of the Caucasian race.

Not caucasians you say? I'm 50 % smi - why then am I white-skinned (in fact I'm really pale ), blu-eyed and blond?



Edited by Mangudai
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  Quote Kuu-ukko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Dec-2004 at 02:34
Yes they are all from the same rootword as the Finnish tribe hme, Latvian sem, samoyed samo and Russian semlja, all, like you said meaning "earth".
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  Quote Hrodger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Dec-2004 at 17:34
That's intresting. I remiscent there is a scholar claiming Saami, Suomi
equal to 'earth'.
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