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OSMANLI
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Topic: Who conquered who? Turk or Arab Posted: 21-Oct-2005 at 06:07 |
Yes, i know the Turks governed the Arabs thanks to Sultan Selim. although who had the most influence. It seems to me that Turkish culture has had a major impact thanks to the Arabs, although one finds it hard to find such influence on the Arabs by the Turks.
Your thoughts...
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Posted: 21-Oct-2005 at 06:49 |
Is it Important? Coz u guys are all the same...
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Posted: 21-Oct-2005 at 09:27 |
We are the same? In what ways I'm similar to an Arab I wonder? And how would a Malay know about these similarities, hmm?
As for the poll question... It is a comparative subject. Hmm, but I will vote for Arabs. I don't think Arabs have Turkish influence in their language or culture as we have some kind of Arabic influence in our life.
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Maju
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Posted: 21-Oct-2005 at 11:02 |
Both: Arabs conquered Turks and later Turks took over Arab states.
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OSMANLI
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Posted: 21-Oct-2005 at 11:32 |
I meant in relation to who had the most influence.
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Posted: 21-Oct-2005 at 11:52 |
Originally posted by OSMANLI
I meant in relation to who had the most influence. |
Why don't you tell your opinion?
Anyway, the answer is obvious. You just need to check your signature!
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DayI
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Posted: 21-Oct-2005 at 14:35 |
both.
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Zagros
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Posted: 21-Oct-2005 at 17:07 |
Originally posted by Bar
Originally posted by OSMANLI
I meant in relation to who had the most influence. | Why don't you tell your opinion?
Anyway, the answer is obvious. You just need to check your signature! |
Oh please.... Just because he advertises that he is a Muslim?
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Posted: 21-Oct-2005 at 17:32 |
Originally posted by Zagros
Oh please.... Just because he advertises that he is a Muslim? |
No, I was reffering to Arabic script. Is it necessary?
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ok ge
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Posted: 22-Oct-2005 at 00:20 |
Originally posted by Bar
No, I was reffering to Arabic script. Is it necessary? |
What is a necessary signature and an unncessary signature? Everyone's signature is up to him as long as it does not intend in bothering others.
Now, going to the question,
Originally posted by OSMANLI
Yes, i know the Turks governed the Arabs thanks to Sultan Selim. although who had the most influence. It seems to me that Turkish culture has had a major impact thanks to the Arabs, although one finds it hard to find such influence on the Arabs by the Turks.
Your thoughts...
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Your poll asked about who conquered who, but your post asks about influence. Conquering is not a sign of influencing. To answer the question per se, I have to ask the following question: Are the Abbassid an Arab empire, and are the Ottomans a Turkish empires? After answring that, we can answer the poll question about who conquered who.
However, your post question about who has the most influence, i guess Arab had more influence on Turks indirectly (language influence through the Persian borrowed words & embarassing Islam which its Quran being written in Arabic brings language influences, not necessary cultural ones). That is similar to the question of influence between the Latin Romans and many unconquered regions that absorbed Latin influence through adopting Christianity, including language influence through the Vulgate Latin bible.
Edited by ok ge
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D.J. Kaufman
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OSMANLI
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Posted: 22-Oct-2005 at 04:59 |
Every time i send a message, one will also get to see two Turkish Republic flags and two TRNC flags. And yet you do not seem to have a problem with 4 Turkish flags being displayed. The writting of Islams core belief is also displayed in both English and Arabic (its orginal form). Does this meen that i am an Arab? perhaps as there is also english writting that iam trying to be English? Islam is not an ethnicity
Does it in some way offend you? if it does then its time to get over it because i will not be wasting my time again on such comments.
Back to the topic, cok gec some good points and to be honest i did not think of it in that way. In order to clarify the matter shall we agree to say the Turkish and Arab populations and the mentioning of the Ottomans as Turks and the Abbasid as Arab.
Perhaps we could mention the populations as well as the governing systems separatly to see the influence on each of these
Edited by OSMANLI
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oTToMAn_TurK
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Posted: 22-Oct-2005 at 07:36 |
it really is hard to find turkish influence on the arabs even with the 1000 year rule of the seljuk and ottomans in the middle east. but i also dont think arabs had too much influence on the turks eathier.
i mean we still speak turkish dont we and even when we used the arabic alphabet, we introduced a few different letters to suit the turkish wordings.
the only influence the turks gained from the arabs was Islam. although the first muslim turk empire converted without arab influence and came from a dream that the sultan had, when he woke up he sed the shahadah. he then invited his people to accept as well in which they quickly accepted. thats what i herd anyway ill look into it a bit more.
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Or your a slave to what MAN-MADE
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Posted: 22-Oct-2005 at 09:14 |
Originally posted by OSMANLI
Does it in some way offend you? |
No, but I just find it strange, when a non-Arab person, whose signature includes Arabic script, asks "Are we influenced by Arabs?"
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Zagros
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Posted: 22-Oct-2005 at 09:50 |
Islam is a way of life if you are a fundamentalist.
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Posted: 22-Oct-2005 at 09:57 |
Originally posted by Zagros
Islam is a way of life if you are a fundamentalist. |
Agreed, but we have to point out that the same thing goes for all the religions.
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OSMANLI
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Posted: 22-Oct-2005 at 13:54 |
Ottoman Turk, how about words such as Merhaba, Dnya, Kalp, portakal etc. At the moment iam trying to learn Arabic in my spare time and am amazed by the amount of words that the Turkish language has accumalated from the Arabs. Are there any Turkish words in Arabic or any other influence? Any Arabs out there?
All i know is that i have met Algerians that know Turkish as well as northern Iraqis.
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erci
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Posted: 22-Oct-2005 at 14:05 |
Turkish influence was more in north Africa than Arabs but Algerians considered Arab?
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ok ge
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Posted: 22-Oct-2005 at 14:55 |
Turks and Arabs didn't influence each others directly. Culturally, I cannot speak of, but linguistically, Turks were heavily influenced with Arabic but not from their contact with Arabs. It is with their contact with Persians, which is by itself contains a lot of Arabic vocabularies. Words that Osmanli mentioned and others show an Arabic origin with a Persian pronounciation even after removing 10,000 Arabic original words, you will still notic words such as Zaman, Muhasebe, haber, ak, Helal sana, tarihi, millet, istiklal...etc
Originally posted by oTToMAn_TurK
it really is hard to find turkish influence on the arabs even with the 1000 year rule of the seljuk and ottomans in the middle east. |
We have to realize that the weak influence of Turkish on Arabic is due only because most of the Ottoman sultans gave the regions under their empire an autonomous status and usually appointed local governers, thus less contact with the central government, its culture, and its language. Also, there was no Turkish immigration to the deep of Arab speaking terretories such as deeper Syria and Egypt or north Africa.
Originally posted by OSMANLI
Are there any Turkish words in Arabic or any other influence? Any Arabs out there?
All i know is that i have met Algerians that know Turkish as well as northern Iraqis. |
Most people who speaks Turkish are intellectuals and educated old individuals at the time when learning the Turkish language was an advantage in taking high commanding positions in the terretories of Ottoman control, or if they were turkmen immigrant as the turkmen of Iraq.
Osmanli, you can still find a weaker but considerablly clear Turkish influence on Arab language on street dialects, but not the classical arabic. Thus, when many educated people rose up and TV programming such as News..etc was in Classical Arabic, people started using the classical terms to look educated which are again purely Arabic.
You still hear words like Odah (Oda in Turkish)=room, Kushuk (TR=kk)=a selling koisk, Dosh (TK=Du)= Shower Bath,Hanim (TK=Hanm), Bey, Afendem...etc. These are used in street, but when you want to speak in academic sense, TV interview, in a discussion, you want to look educated and so you will use Fus-ha, which is the Arabic Classical Language.
Edited by ok ge
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D.J. Kaufman
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Posted: 22-Oct-2005 at 15:14 |
Arab influence: islam, arabic letters (not anymore), being middle eastern i guess
turkish influence: cafe's, argila/shisha/huka watever u call it,
syrians wearing red tarbush (old school), and my grandma calling me
pasha when i try to act tough
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Posted: 22-Oct-2005 at 15:21 |
More or less, I agree. Anyway are we Middle-Eastern now? What do you think?
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