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Mediterranean Muslims: Bosniaks

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  Quote Mila Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Mediterranean Muslims: Bosniaks
    Posted: 17-Sep-2005 at 12:14
Bosniaks live primarily in Bosnia and Herzegovina and a region of Serbia known as the Sandzak. They are the descendants of members of the Bosnian Church; a distinct form of Christianity which was aligned neither with Rome nor Constantinople. The Bosniaks left tombstones throughout the country called stecci which are found nowhere else on earth.

Stecci tombstones in the village of Dejcici, near Sarajevo:


At the beginning of the Ottoman Empire in this part of the world, Bosniaks were being targetted for extermination by both the Catholic forces of the Vatican and Eastern Orthodox missionaries from Serbia. This is why, historians believe, Bosnians converted so enthusiastically to Islam after being conquered by the Ottoman Empire. A sort of 'hiding between big brother's legs' response.

The oldest mosque in the Bosnian city of Bihac is a unique example of this process. It was converted into a mosque when the people of what was then a town converted to Islam. What makes the Bihac mosque so unique is, firstly, the original church was a Bosnian Church. Secondly, the church was converted into a mosque within a single lifetime of being built so many of the same people who helped build it certainly helped convert it:


It's interesting to note, however, that the Bosniaks fought off the empire almost 100 years longer than their neighbors in the region.

The Queen of Bosnia at the time, Katarina Velika (Catherine the Great), refused to recognize the Ottoman Empire, screaming "This is Bosnia and I am her Queen!" from the belltower of St. Luke's Bosnian Church in Jajce, the Bosnian capital at the time. It became a famous battlecry. Her heretical beliefs were forgiven by the Vatican and she was allowed to flee to Rome, where she died.

Jajce, Bosnia's old capital. The yellow arrow points to the old St. Luke's Church, where Katarina's body now lies. The pink arrow points towards the new St. Luke's Church, which will feature a museum of Bosnia's Christian heritage. The green arrows point to the city's most famous mosques:


Bosniaks were, for centuries, among the Ottoman Empires most dedicated supporters. They were the only Muslims in the whole of the Ottoman Empire to insist their sons be taken and trained for the Sultan's armies as well.

At the end of the Ottoman Empire, Bosniaks led the collapse in this region. The city of Gradacac became the center of the Bosniak independence movement which speak to Serbia, Kosovo, and Albania at roughly the same time. The leader of the Bosniak rebellion,  Husein-kapetan Gradačević, cried: "God I fear slightly, the Sultan not at all, and the Grand Vizier no more than my own horse."

The Bosniak form of Islam was, and remains today, very secular, with strong Sufi and Hanafi traditions. It also has weak connections to the former Bosnian church, especially in terms of how Bosniaks bury their dead.


Bosniak's traditional burried their dead without any rhyme or reason. The separation of life and death was blurred, and bodies were placed on any patch of open earth - even in the middle of town:




However, it is also very spiritual. Surveys have shown that a large percentage of Bosniaks (78%) are "spiritually satisfied", the highest percentage of any people, of any faith, polled.

Here is a little look at Bosniaks, their fashion, their lifestyle, and their architecture...

The re-opening of the Sultan's Mosque in Plav-Gusinje, 2005:






Bosmal City Center, Sarajevo:


Marshall Tito Boulevard, Sarajevo:


Ferhadija Street, Sarajevo:


The red-tile suburbs of Sarajevo:


Graduation at the Tuzla Medresa, Tuzla:


Preparing a meal in Dejcici village, near Sarajevo:


Random shots of girls in Sarajevo by online nightlife sites:










Contestants in the Miss Bosnia 2005 pageant:




Selma Sejtanic:


Emina Jahovic:


Zvejzdana Sehovic:


Mariana Kvasina:




Irna Smaka, Miss Bosnia 2003:




More random shots from downtown Sarajevo:




























The village of Pocitelj:




Photo by Harun:


The Rimski Most, or 'Roman Bridge', Sarajevo:


The old East End of Sarajevo:























Edited by Mila
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  Quote ill_teknique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2005 at 18:49
now im not the only bosnian here anymore
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  Quote Mila Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2005 at 21:01
Originally posted by ill_teknique

now im not the only bosnian here anymore


And you're from Cazin, which is just gorgeous! I've stayed at the Hotel Una there. LOL
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Sep-2005 at 20:45

Selam raja... there is a 3id Bosnian here but she doesn't post much

 

yeah.. these photos are wonderful...  are you in this picture Mila

 

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  Quote ill_teknique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Sep-2005 at 21:39
merhaba akhi


cazin is good, i like stari grad in velika kladusa too.
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  Quote strategos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Sep-2005 at 21:46

Serb 37.1%, Bosniak 48%, Croat 14.3%, other 0.6% (2000)
note: Bosniak has replaced Muslim as an ethnic term in part to avoid confusion with the religious term Muslim - an adherent of Islam

What exactly is Republika Srpska, who controls this?

http://theforgotten.org/intro.html
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Sep-2005 at 18:58

Beautiful pics, especially the women.

Are the Bosniaks a mix of Serbs and Croatians that are muslim?

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  Quote Mila Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Sep-2005 at 21:14
Strategos: Republika Srpska is controlled by Bosnian Serbs, with very close ties to Serbia. It is the half of the country where all Muslims and Catholics were killed or driven away during the war.

DRAKON: No. In fact, it's only since the 1900s that Bosnian Catholics have called themselves Croats, and since the 1750s that Bosnian Orthodox Christians have called themselves Serbs. Before that, they were simply Bosnian.

Even today, Bosnian Croats and Bosnian Serbs speak Bosnian, as opposed to proper Croatian or Serbian. All the regional/religious differences that Muslims have, they have as well.
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  Quote Mila Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Sep-2005 at 21:19






Erna Bibuljica, Miss Novi Pazar.

Here's her hometown:








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  Quote Hak-Khan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Sep-2005 at 20:03
i have a bosnian friends who's family escaped from serbs in anakkale, they were always talking about themes like those shots above, but id never dreamed what a look like about scenes
im fascinated now

 
  
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Oct-2005 at 18:59

Originally posted by Mila

DRAKON: No. In fact, it's only since the 1900s that Bosnian Catholics have called themselves Croats, and since the 1750s that Bosnian Orthodox Christians have called themselves Serbs. Before that, they were simply Bosnian.

Do the Bosnians consider themselves descendants of the Illyrians?

Btw, which one of these beautiful ladies do you look like? I may have to visit Bosnia one day.

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  Quote ok ge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Oct-2005 at 19:24
I thought Bosninas are also southern slavs and Albanians are the descendants of the Illyirans.
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  Quote Mila Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Oct-2005 at 21:42
Originally posted by ok ge

I thought Bosninas are also southern slavs and Albanians are the descendants of the Illyirans.


Yes, you're right.

Whether or not Albanians are the descendants of Illyrians is still questioned, though mainly by Eastern Orthodox experts and historians, with whom there is some historical/political bias.

Likewise, it is mainly Catholic and Muslim experts and historians that point blank accept that Albanians are the descendants of Illyrians. In fact, Croatia commissioned the most widely respected historical, linguistic, genetic study that "proves" this.

Most world historians argue there is certainly a straight line between Albanians and Illyrians, but that all people of the Balkans absorbed the Illyrians in some form or another.

Bosniaks, like Croats and Serbs, are descendant from Slavs that settled here in the 6th and 7th centuries.
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  Quote TheodoreFelix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Oct-2005 at 22:47
Whether or not Albanians are the descendants of Illyrians is still questioned, though mainly by Eastern Orthodox experts and historians, with whom there is some historical/political bias.


Replace "Orthodox" with just Serbs. Thats for the reason of Kosovo however. I havnt met many others who support this. I havnt met any follower of the Orthodox faith in Albania who believed this. Your generilization is rather creepy. You definitely hint off at something, something offensive, since half my family is of Orthodox heritage and Albanian....

Likewise, it is mainly Catholic and Muslim experts and historians that point blank accept that Albanians are the descendants of Illyrians. In fact, Croatia commissioned the most widely respected historical, linguistic, genetic study that "proves" this.


Catholics and muslims have nothing to do with it. Alexander Stipcevic, was a scientist of Croat origin. No way does he constitute what "Catholics" say. And I dunno What muslims have to say nor what business they have in it. This is not the discussion of muslims, catholics and orthodox. But the discussion of linguisists, ethnologists, historians etc., people involved in the real world.

Edited by Iskender Bey ALBO
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Oct-2005 at 07:19

From what I gathered she said that eastern/orthodox NAMELY Serbs and Greeks will say that Albanians are not descended from Illyrians.

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  Quote vulkan02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2005 at 01:50


Wow... thats sizzling... Do you look like that too Mila, are these two your friends or something??... if yes we can meet im not going to hit on you that much just hook me up with one of them .
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  Quote malizlato Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Nov-2005 at 15:41
History of Bosnia is old,ancient and (unfortunately)unknown to most of the people. Bosnia as any other country had it's own king and queen, Bosnia as any other country had it's own money,Bosnia as any other country had it's own culture. Culture that is older than some worlds leading countries. The sadliest thing in history  of Bosnia is that We always too much believe people around us. That's our blessing,that's our cursedness.

Edited by malizlato
In ancient times there was a kingdom of Bosnia...and it will rise again
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  Quote malizlato Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Nov-2005 at 21:15

Well,let's start from the beginning.
Log time ago happened something known as Great movement of people, to people from these parts known as Velika seoba naroda, and Slavs as big European ethnic group took part in it as well. So once big group, homogen group, divided itself in 3 major groups.
Eastern Slavs:Russians,Belarussians and Ukrainians.
Western Slavs:  Polish,Czechs,Slovaks and Primorski & Luzichki Serbi.
Southern Slavs:  Slovenians,Croats,Serbs,Montenegroans,Macedonians and Bulgarians.

Southern Slavs as a group decided to go south from great Russian planes and so they have arrived to these places. All tribes took places where they are now (mainly). When they came to these territories they found people already living here, old Roman tribes of Ilirs.

Some members of  Slavic tribes decided to live in region that native people called Bosniae (name given from same named river).

As time passed natives alredy have melted with newcomers.

Soon enough first state was formed

(Bosnian land prior to year 1000.)


Naturally, because they belong to same ethnic group, Bosnians (not Bosniaks) started traffic and merchantry with neighbourhood.

As they found,upon their arrival, literated people, Bosnians soon started to use Roman letters and writting.

First patron or Bosnian leader was Ban Boric (1154-1167).

However he was under rule of Byzantium emperor Constantin Porfirogenet, emperor who in his book De administrando imperio describes lands that he owns. For the first time he anounces country called Horion Bosona/Bosniae, and that is considered as first foreign document of Bosnian existence. He also declares Bosnia by country of a brave warriors.

Together with literacy Bosnians have accepted a brand new religion of those times, Christianity.

Without  well developed own language and writing, people were in one way forced to serve the masses and all other religic ceremonials in Latin language and writing.

Soon enough (Bosnians are not stupid ), educated people, scolars started to develope own language and writing and that was beginning of Bosnian writing called Bosancica.

In the beginning Bosnian religious life was under patronate of Pope of Rome, but soon enough people started to serve masses in their native(Slavic) language.After that they have made kind of separation from Rome and fresh formed Catholic church. They called themselves Bogumils.

It's important to say that first well-known king, Ban Kulin (1180-1204) was also bogumil.

Naturally that was not wellcomed by Pope so he ordered war against bogumils and he forced Ban Kulin to reject bogumilism in favor of catholicism. As Kulin's army was not able to win the war Ban accepted terms of Pope.

.
Altar in Bogumils church ( Cerkva Bosanskih Krstjana)

To be continued.....



Edited by malizlato
In ancient times there was a kingdom of Bosnia...and it will rise again
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  Quote the Bulgarian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2005 at 09:23

You're absolutely right, except for the "Macedonian Slavs" part. Such a thing didn't exist. There were no recordings of a "Macedonian nation" in Byzantine, Serb or Bulgarian sources for more then 1300 years. Every time these sources state that the population of Macedonia is prodominantly Bulgarian + some Byzantines (Greeks) living around the Aegan coast.

The modern Macedonian nation was "invented" by Tito and the Comintern. Such an act of a forecuful creating of a nation is something not uncommon of the brutal Communist regimes - Moldavians are infact Romanians, Carelians are Finns (not so sure about this one), etc. The Serbs also tried to convinse the Bosnians that they were merely Muslim Serbs, by destorting the historical trueth + a hole lot of brutality. Luckily the heroic Bosnians withstood 70 years of Serb occupation and teror and didn't lose their identity, something most Macedonians failed to achieve. No matter, after the collapse of Yugoslavia Macedonia has slowely began to rediscover its true identity.



Edited by the Bulgarian
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  Quote erci Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Nov-2005 at 09:35
edited by request, sorry for disturbing


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