Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Turkish origins in Mongolia!

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 234
Author
TheodoreFelix View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 01-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 694
  Quote TheodoreFelix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Turkish origins in Mongolia!
    Posted: 27-Jun-2005 at 12:44
Yes however they show that somehow all these people in Europe have some kind of ties.

I mean look at this. Picture of Turks;


Cmon Cywr!http://www.nato.int/pictures/2004/040626b/b040626n.jpg

Edited by Iskender Bey ALBO
Back to Top
Cywr View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6003
  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jun-2005 at 12:59
Those ties go well beyond Europe. Europe is after all a convient socio-cultural invention.
Arrrgh!!"
Back to Top
kermit_criminal View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 27-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 72
  Quote kermit_criminal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2005 at 01:46

Originally posted by Cywr

Not all 'Asians' are mongoloid, in fact most aren't. Likewise most Caucasoids aren't 'white', your mixing Americanised popular labels with outdated anthropology ones. There are numerous ways of classifying humans into groups and subgroups.
And again, your are conviently avoiding the point that Turkic/Altaic isn't a race anymore than Afro-Asatic or Sino-Tibetian is. Hell, while where at it, why don't we pretend that all Caucasian Indo-European speakers are infact part of the Germanic Race, so clearly all those people are sub races of the proto-Germanic one, naturaly modern day Germans are the most pure.

you are just arguing semantics. besides i believe more then half of asia is in fact mongoloid

 

Back to Top
Cywr View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6003
  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2005 at 05:33
Kind of relevant when dealing with the notion of a 'Turkic race'.
If this proto-Turkic race is the ancestor of all modern Eurasians, shouldn't we be looking in Africa for racialy Turkoid skeletons?
Arrrgh!!"
Back to Top
kermit_criminal View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 27-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 72
  Quote kermit_criminal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2005 at 06:06

what does africa have to do with turkic people.

the idea of proto-turkic race was just something i threw out there to see what turks think to get a feel where they believe turks originated. since some turks on this board think caucasian turks are the "purest"

Back to Top
Phallanx View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 07-Feb-2005
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1283
  Quote Phallanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2005 at 06:21
Today, the theory of native Americans being Central Siberian nomads once is internationally accepted, and they belong to a totally different race. They cant grow facial hair for example.


Hmmm, internationally accepted?
If anyone thinks that Turkish 'scholars' represent the international scientific society, then OK, but it seems like the whole topic looks quite different under the international perspective, since theories vary.


Did ancient Polynesians visit California?
Maybe so.

Scholars revive idea using linguistic ties, Indian headdress

Scientists are taking a new look at an old and controversial idea: that ancient Polynesians sailed to Southern California a millennium before Christopher Columbus landed on the East Coast.

Key new evidence comes from two directions. The first involves revised carbon-dating of an ancient ceremonial headdress used by Southern California's Chumash Indians. The second involves research by two California scientists who suggest that a Chumash word for "sewn-plank canoe" is derived from a Polynesian word for the wood used to construct the same boat.

LINK


If you ask me, Polynesia is quite a long way from Siberia, add that to genetics and BINGO, we have their most probable origin.




Edited by Phallanx
To the gods we mortals are all ignorant.Those old traditions from our ancestors, the ones we've had as long as time itself, no argument will ever overthrow, in spite of subtleties sharp minds invent.
Back to Top
Cywr View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6003
  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2005 at 06:23
This:

and instead of caucasians and mongoloids being separate races, they are really sub-races of the proto-turk where proto-turkic tribes branched off due to isolation during the ice ages. Meaning instead of turkic peoples being a mix of whites and asian(like hispanics today in the americas), whites and east asians originated from proto-turks? East Asians branching off from proto-turks in Mongolia, with Nordics branching off from proto-turks around Kalmykia region?


Humans originated in Africa, so if non-Turkic Eurasians branched off from these Proto-Turks, then we must be able to trace this race of Proto-Turks moving out of Africa and then branching off.
Also, Turkic is but one member of the Altaic family, Tngustic and Mongolian being the other two main ones, so if anything you should be looking for a proto-Altaic race.

Personaly i think trying to understand Turkicness in terms of a Caucasoid vs Mongloid dichotomy is relativly useless, as it seems to be that Turkic peoples were born out of the genetic melting pot of Central Asia.
And of course, understanding the the spread of Turkic culture coems from just that, studying the culture and language.

If it intrests you, there is a hypothetical language super family called Nostratic, that is a theorised mother of many Eurasian languages, including the Indo-European, Uralic, Altiac (includes Turkic languages), Caucasian, Afro-Asiatic and then some. Its basicly an idea to understand the spraed of languages into much of Eurasia and how they then brole up into their seperate families. Theres still alot of skepticsm over the idea, but its an interesting one none the less.

Arrrgh!!"
Back to Top
kermit_criminal View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 27-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 72
  Quote kermit_criminal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2005 at 06:45

Originally posted by Cywr

This:

and instead of caucasians and mongoloids being separate races, they are really sub-races of the proto-turk where proto-turkic tribes branched off due to isolation during the ice ages. Meaning instead of turkic peoples being a mix of whites and asian(like hispanics today in the americas), whites and east asians originated from proto-turks? East Asians branching off from proto-turks in Mongolia, with Nordics branching off from proto-turks around Kalmykia region?


Humans originated in Africa, so if non-Turkic Eurasians branched off from these Proto-Turks, then we must be able to trace this race of Proto-Turks moving out of Africa and then branching off.
Also, Turkic is but one member of the Altaic family, Tngustic and Mongolian being the other two main ones, so if anything you should be looking for a proto-Altaic race.

Personaly i think trying to understand Turkicness in terms of a Caucasoid vs Mongloid dichotomy is relativly useless, as it seems to be that Turkic peoples were born out of the genetic melting pot of Central Asia.
And of course, understanding the the spread of Turkic culture coems from just that, studying the culture and language.

If it intrests you, there is a hypothetical language super family called Nostratic, that is a theorised mother of many Eurasian languages, including the Indo-European, Uralic, Altiac (includes Turkic languages), Caucasian, Afro-Asiatic and then some. Its basicly an idea to understand the spraed of languages into much of Eurasia and how they then brole up into their seperate families. Theres still alot of skepticsm over the idea, but its an interesting one none the less.

point taken, i will look into this hypothetical Nostratic language famly

when a thread talks about origins of turks in mongolia, one must wonder what these turks in monoglia looked like back then



Edited by kermit_criminal
Back to Top
kermit_criminal View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 27-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 72
  Quote kermit_criminal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jun-2005 at 06:50
Originally posted by Phallanx

Today, the theory of native Americans being Central Siberian nomads once is internationally accepted, and they belong to a totally different race. They cant grow facial hair for example.


Hmmm, internationally accepted?
If anyone thinks that Turkish 'scholars' represent the international scientific society, then OK, but it seems like the whole topic looks quite different under the international perspective, since theories vary.


Did ancient Polynesians visit California?
Maybe so.

Scholars revive idea using linguistic ties, Indian headdress

Scientists are taking a new look at an old and controversial idea: that ancient Polynesians sailed to Southern California a millennium before Christopher Columbus landed on the East Coast.

Key new evidence comes from two directions. The first involves revised carbon-dating of an ancient ceremonial headdress used by Southern California's Chumash Indians. The second involves research by two California scientists who suggest that a Chumash word for "sewn-plank canoe" is derived from a Polynesian word for the wood used to construct the same boat.

LINK


If you ask me, Polynesia is quite a long way from Siberia, add that to genetics and BINGO, we have their most probable origin.


 

DNA evidence backs that up as well, i posted this in another thread also.

http://cita.chattanooga.org/mtdna.html

Polynesian Links?

To their surprise, however, the researchers found that native Siberians lack one peculiar mutation that appeared in the Amerinds 6,000 to 10,000 years ago. This raises the question of where, if not from Siberia, this mtDNA originated.

It turns out, Dr. Wallace says, that this particular mutation pattern is also found in aboriginal populations in Southeast Asia and in the islands of Melanesia and Polynesia. This hints at what may have been "one of the most astounding migrations in human experience," he says. A group of ancient peoples moved out of China into Malaysia where they became sailors and populated the islands of the South Pacific.

Then some 6,000 to 12,000 years ago these ancient mariners made it to the Americas. "I don't know how they came," Dr. Wallace says. "They either came across the Pacific to Central and South America or they went up the east coast of Asia and across the northern Pacific to Alaska and Canada," he says. He already is examining mtDNA samples from natives of the Kamchatka Peninsula north of Japan to see if there is any mtDNA trace of these ancient sailors.

 



Edited by kermit_criminal
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 234

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.