http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/AJHG/journal/issues/v73n2/35013/35013.html?erFrom=-1567037138684050134Guest - http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/AJHG/journal/issues/v73n2/3 5013/35013.html?erFrom=-1567037138684050134Guest

DNA was extracted from the skeletal remains of 62 specimens excavated from the Egyin Gol necropolis, in northern Mongolia. This burial site is linked to the Xiongnu period and was used from the 3rd century B.C. to the 2nd century A.D. Three types of genetic markers were used to determine the genetic relationships between individuals buried in the Egyin Gol necropolis. Results from analyses of autosomal and Y chromosome short tandem repeats, as well as mitochondrial DNA, showed close relationships between several specimens and provided additional background information on the social organization within the necropolis as well as the funeral practices of the Xiongnu people. To the best of our knowledge, this is the first study using biparental, paternal, and maternal genetic systems to reconstruct partial genealogies in a protohistoric necropolis.

Ok guys! so what?! I no longer will continue this bullsh*t!

That sentence at the end was unnecessary.

Whether you like it or not Turks fought for and won the land they live on just like everyone else. Enough of this bullsh*t.

Thanks for this post, i dont want a flame-war between Iranians and Turks. Dont try to lock out Ardashir, youll be the one who's gonna be flamed.

Originally posted by [ARM Paul]

Wow, servant in the second plan supports his master. Loser...

As time goes on people get displaced and people move. Thats what happens, thats what will and has happened throughout history. The only different between the migration of the iranians into Iran and Turks into Turkey is that the Turks was rather recent, while that happend a damn long time ago...

Infact I dont understand why Iranians dont like from us. Because If USA attack Iran, It would be Turkey People( Your enemy?) Who will be saddest.(I think so)

Ramin You are  right.I am sorry. I made a  big mistake

Yeah! But Iranians migrated to Iran in ~4000 years ago! when there was no been a big population in it!

Originally posted by Rava Give back Europe to the Neanderthals

Neanderthals are extinct now,but what about greeks,armenians and kurds?

Originally posted by Ardashir Originally posted by Rava Give back Europe to the Neanderthals Neanderthals are extinct now,but what about greeks,armenians and kurds?

Damn, why do you keep on trying to ignore the fact? All nations have immigrated to their current locations, from other places, by fighting and mixing with the locals. For example look at the IndoEuropeans, possibly they were one single ethhnicity from southern Siberia once, just like Turks. And look at today's Indo Europeans, they immigrated to very different parts of the world, mixed with the locals, fought with the locals and seperated. Today, even Iranians are from Russian steppes. And believe me, when they immigrated to Iran, the region wasnt empty at all.

You cant judge history with current norms of today. Migrations happened, and people had fought since the beginning of history. And we were just one of the conquerers, immigrants like all other nation in the world.

But if you have a problem with us coming from Central Asian steppes, you should solve it with your guns, not with your cowardish statements. Look at your countrymates here, learn some respect and logic, be a man.

And another fact, there isnt such thing as an original Anatolian native, all the current nations of Anatolia have immigrated to Anatolia once from different regions. But to consider as the most ancient inhabitants, we should say "Hatti"s were, not Greeks neither Kurds. Greeks became to colonise far western Anatolia long time after that, and they werent the locals. During the Byzanthine reign, most of the Anatolian population was all about Hellenified locals. Also Kurds are from Iranic origin, and they have immigrated to northwestern Iran and southwestern Turkey (not Anatolia, because it is considered as a part of Mesopotamia) once. So we are as native Anatolians as all those other inhabitants of Anatolia. All of us are Anatolians, its sons, its natives...

Originally posted by Oguzoglu Originally posted by Ardashir Originally posted by Rava Give back Europe to the Neanderthals Neanderthals are extinct now,but what about greeks,armenians and kurds? Damn, why do you keep on trying to ignore the fact? All nations have immigrated to their current locations, from other places, by fighting and mixing with the locals. For example look at the IndoEuropeans, possibly they were one single ethhnicity from southern Siberia once, just like Turks. And look at today's Indo Europeans, they immigrated to very different parts of the world, mixed with the locals, fought with the locals and seperated. Today, even Iranians are from Russian steppes. And believe me, when they immigrated to Iran, the region wasnt empty at all. You cant judge history with current norms of today. Migrations happened, and people had fought since the beginning of history. And we were just one of the conquerers, immigrants like all other nation in the world. But if you have a problem with us coming from Central Asian steppes, you should solve it with your guns, not with your cowardish statements. Look at your countrymates here, learn some respect and logic, be a man. And another fact, there isnt such thing as an original Anatolian native, all the current nations of Anatolia have immigrated to Anatolia once from different regions. But to consider as the most ancient inhabitants, we should say "Hatti"s were, not Greeks neither Kurds. Greeks became to colonise far western Anatolia long time after that, and they werent the locals. During the Byzanthine reign, most of the Anatolian population was all about Hellenified locals. Also Kurds are from Iranic origin, and they have immigrated to northwestern Iran and southwestern Turkey (not Anatolia, because it is considered as a part of Mesopotamia) once. So we are as native Anatolians as all those other inhabitants of Anatolia. All of us are Anatolians, its sons, its natives...

Ok man! forget it! excuse me! that post now have been edited!

Some times,I became angry and post some shamefull posts like that bulllsh*t!

Anyway,forget it!

I didnt say, mean, claim anything like that. You create bullshi* out of your mind and try to blame me with that. I heard that IE origins were fro Russian steppes, that is all I said.

Immature? It is funny that a small kid is blaming me with it. Please Phallanx, I've more important jobs than being your babysitter in AE. Go and find yourself targets from your mental age...

Well you didn't say exactly that but it was quite close. Read your last post again:

>>For example look at the IndoEuropeans, possibly they were one single ethhnicity from southern Siberia once, just like Turks.

Today, even Iranians are from Russian steppes. <<

The way I see it, this is an attempt to make the connection I mentioned.

Why not present the scholars that support some Iranian origin from the Steppes, explain why there is NO connection in language, explain genetics.,,,, give us some of that secret knowledge.

quote:
"But if you have a problem with us coming from Central Asian steppes, you should solve it with your guns, not with your cowardish statements."

To be honest I see nothing wrong in his posts. Is telling him to solve it with guns mature. Well if that is your view of maturity, hell I accept being the child of AE and feel damn proud of it.
Show us your supreme intelect by addressing the questions I made, then and only then can you speak of "mental age". But that is the known tactic of all ignorant wanna-be's, cover up their ignorance with insults.
If you had at least given some answers, I could accept it but you instead of giving us a name, source, hell something to work on (just in case you're right and I'm wrong) you attempt to insult.
Great job and an excellent example of maturity by Oguz

Oguzoglu, first, well dated (c.a. 1200 - 900 B.C.) items of so called Scythian Animal Style (deer and boar) were found in Arzhan kurghan (Altaj).

Phallanx,

Unfortunately, life is too short for even to consider reading all your unnecessary posts and replying them. I dont take your words seriously. Go and do regular Greek jobs, just like breaking plates, eating gyros or insulting Turks, but just dont damn bother me. Understood?

Originally posted by Phallanx As for breaking plates, yeah might be doing some of that tonight, but you obviously have better things to do, like visit the Ornekkoy shelter http://www.hurriyetim.com.tr/haber/0,,sid~2@tarih~2002-09- mailto:%2011-m@nvid~172761,00.asp - %2011-m@nvid~172761,00.asp

Wow, you follow Turkish newspaper, so you understand Turkish. Doesnt matter, once all Greeks used to, so another regular Greek job I suppouse...

Well, you got us from our weakest point, what can I say? But the interesting thing is, that event has a historical background, Turks used to do it since thousands of years, especially tens of times in the last thousand years. Have a look at its historical background with a chronology, and our first glorious relations with historical dogs http://www.allaboutturkey.com/conquest.htm - here ...

Phallanx

Homos? A Greek talk about homos?  Even  your heroes(achil,alexander) are homo.

Are you sure you are greek? I mean what you  did is  mostly belittle  greeks.

Phallanx

I didnt read  your  question,Mostly I didnt read your post  too.

You have not good-will. You mostly provocative. But This time your post is even absurd  for me . So I replied. Sorry wont make this mistake much.

Who ever said that the people of Iran have their origins in the Steppes, which was my question.

I dont know.Infact I dont interested  with 4324234 years ago much.

They are just tales.

I  didnt call you provocative for  this question. By The way, Have fun.

I am  out.

Think again before you start talking about homos, if my mentioning the dogs hurt, you can't begin to imagine how this will feel if I get started.

Homos? It is interesting that you, a Greek can dislike them. It isnt my history that is full of homos, but yours...

I didnt start talking about homos, you started it, by showing that past news of someday. But if you want to discuss about them, open a topic in the AE Tavern forum, I see you have lots of memories to share...

You turned it into a flame war, with your first provocative post in that topic, no us. I said they are from Russian steppes, because I heard that was the origin of all IEs. And historians tell this, not me. Did I claim or create anything from my mind? No...

Oh, poor peaceful Phallanx, all his want is a friendly answer to his simple, logical questions. So ok Phallanx, go on, ask your question and I will answer it briefly. And then this flame war ends...

Homos? It is interesting that you, a Greek can dislike them. It isnt my history that is full of homos, but yours... I didnt start talking about homos, you started it, by showing that past news of someday. But if you want to discuss about them, open a topic in the AE Tavern forum, I see you have lots of memories to share...

Where is anything provocative???????
Here is what I said:

Unless you considered the rest of my post provocative, where I mention your childish behavior of mentioning " you should solve it with your guns, not with your cowardish statements."

Do you honestly believe you were right to say this and I am wrong???
If so, I honestly apologise and leave you to be judged by the fellow members of AE.
Hell, yes, please DO speak with guns, instead of arguments that is the mature way to go, that is the MEANING of civilization.
Yet according to you, I'm just a child.
Thanks.

No Phallanx, you turned it into a flame war by suddenly entering to the topic, quoting my statement about the origins of IEs and blaming me with calling them Turks. So you did your regular anti Turkish job here, again.

This flame war have been very long and like in everytime, I am bored to reply your self lyings. You said you just wanted answers to your questions, but you still continue with your nonsense. Just ask your question if you have one.

Yes, I wrote that, but as you know, it wasnt for you, but for the poster of the new topic. It is called sarcasm, something we and you use oftenly in our posts, if you dont know it, then dont try to teach me English. He said "lets send them to Mongolia", and as you know, that isnt something to solve with a civilized discussion, but with a psychiatrist. So I was just making fun of it. I see you are still trying to look as the "innocent oppressed guy" here. Go on, continue with trying to show yourself as the holy victim again, noone is that stupid to believe you here.

NO, I didnt. If I said anything about IEs having Turkic origins, quote it little liar, so we can see how trustworthy your claims are. I said their origins were from the Russian steppes, according to an IE theory. That theory isnt proTurkish, isnt nationalist and even isnt created by Turks, and has nothing to do with us. Turks arent the only people whose origins are from Siberia. Lots of IE tribes that have nothing to do with Turks or Altaics have lived in Siberia, also Mongolians, Tunguz tribes, Siberian tiger, Siberian wolves, Siberian eagle, and millions of other types of organisms, animals etc. originate from Siberia. And in fact, Turks dont originate from Siberia, but from Altay region in C.A.

I know you understand and know I didnt claim anything about them having anything to do with Turks, but as another regular idiotic Greek job, you change my words into your "anti Turkish blaming tradition". So go on, quote any of my sentences claiming any Turkic relationship btw IEs if you can. But you cant boy, that is the main point that makes you look as a little clown.

>>For example look at the IndoEuropeans, possibly they were one single ethhnicity from southern Siberia once, just like Turks.

I didnt mean they were Turks. I meant they were just a single ethnicity once, just like Turks, Latins, Semites etc. But I gave the example of Turks.

And Phallanx, according to your idea about IEs originating from Balkans, you meant they were protoGreeks, didnt you? Yeah, you exactly meant that.

So I didnt claim any of these things you suddenly and offensively blamed me with:

Dont worry Phallanx, today noone believes and even consideres the past historical mistakes of "Sun Language Theory" and the others today, except some antiTurks who can sacrifice their lives for every single antiTurkish effort, what I called regular Greek job...

And it wasnt my idea that IEs were originated from Siberian steppes. It is a nonTurkish theory.

Yes, I quoted him, but just about the Northern American natives issue, not in his other works. It doesnt have anything to do with Turkish Sun Language Theory, it is a widely accepted fact that the Northern American natives were from Siberian/Altaic origins. But the topic isnt about that issue, so I wont discuss it here.

The Aryan invasion theory is a historical theory first put forth by the German Indologist Friedrich Max M�ller and others in the mid nineteenth century in order to provide a historical explanation for the existence of Indo-European languages in India. According to the most common version of the Aryan Invasion Theory (AIT), the Aryans originated in South Russia, Ukraine and western Siberia, from where they invaded or migrated to Iran, India, Central Asia, and Europe.

"As if that isn't bad enough, this isn't even an exact copy and paste. You intentionally manipulated the original source and added western Siberia which isn't mentioned, just to support your version."

Yes, I did it, but not only to support my idea. I did it because I didnt want to copy paste the whole article and find the statements about possible Siberian origins. I am bored you know. And wikipedi is a fine site, it has nearly the same information with all other sites about IE theory. That western Siberia theory is real, but it wasnt mentioned in that first paragraph, so I needed to add it. But if it bothers you, I can simply delete it, since I have a couple of more sites to support those theories.

And dont come and tell me you have never copy pasted information and synthesized information from a couple of sources. That would be low...

That wasnt all my answer. Try the Asiatic origin theory, that is enlighting...

Yeah, sure. You begin, you are the professional one here...

Please do, if you have the time, that was interesting.

Kermit,

There is no obvious thing such as original Turks. We cant be sure that even their original homeland was Altay mountains, western Mongolia. That was just the origin of G�kt�rk dynasty, and they were blacksmiths, they possibly immigrated there from another region.

Turks, Turkic people were nomads. That is why it is so hard to describe a specific homeland, a specific ethnicity, or a specific civilization for them. They immigrated to Mongolia, they mixed with Mongoloids. They immigrated to Russian steppes, they mixed with Slavic blondes. They immigrated to India, they mixed with Indians, and they immigrated to middle East and Europe, intermixed with the locals. Today, the theory of native Americans being Central Siberian nomads once is internationally accepted, and they belong to a totally different race. They cant grow facial hair for example.

Being Turk, or inheriting Turkic culture is not about your look, or your race. If you know the exact versions of Turkic myths of creation or common ancestry, you would realize that it is all about a common ancestry from a common father. And that makes you a Turk, your common ancestry, your common cultural elements and your self identity. Turks dont have a defiate original race, we, most of the nations in the world didnt care about such things before the nationalism age.

Being racist is disgusting. Today, the last person in the world who would be racist is a Turk. Turks didnt care about such nonsense, racial purity etc. Today, all people from a common Turkic ancestry who could keep his cultural values alive are Turks, no matter their race or looks.

And btw, today, if we are to show a pure prototype for Turkic racial structure, that would be Turkmens. They are the purest Turks on earth in terms of intermixing. Yakut (Sakha) Turks arent such original Turks at all, they are mostly consisted of Tunguzic tribes, and their admixture with Turks. Their language is assimilated in Turkic culture.

Is it possible that the European theories of racial orgin could be wrong, and instead of caucasians and mongoloids being separate races, they are really sub-races of the proto-turk where proto-turkic tribes branched off due to isolation during the ice ages. Meaning instead of turkic peoples being a mix of whites and asian(like hispanics today in the americas), whites and east asians originated from proto-turks? East Asians branching off from proto-turks in Mongolia, with Nordics branching off from proto-turks around Kalmykia region? 

Yea that's what happened.

you are just arguing semantics. besides i believe more then half of asia is in fact mongoloid

what does africa have to do with turkic people.

the idea of proto-turkic race was just something i threw out there to see what turks think to get a feel where they believe turks originated. since some turks on this board think caucasian turks are the "purest"

If you ask me, Polynesia is quite a long way from Siberia, add that to genetics and BINGO, we have their most probable origin.

point taken, i will look into this hypothetical Nostratic language famly

when a thread talks about origins of turks in mongolia, one must wonder what these turks in monoglia looked like back then

DNA evidence backs that up as well, i posted this in another thread also.

http://cita.chattanooga.org/mtdna.html - http://cita.chattanooga.org/mtdna.html

Polynesian Links?

To their surprise, however, the researchers found that native Siberians lack one peculiar mutation that appeared in the Amerinds 6,000 to 10,000 years ago. This raises the question of where, if not from Siberia, this mtDNA originated.

It turns out, Dr. Wallace says, that this particular mutation pattern is also found in aboriginal populations in Southeast Asia and in the islands of Melanesia and Polynesia. This hints at what may have been "one of the most astounding migrations in human experience," he says. A group of ancient peoples moved out of China into Malaysia where they became sailors and populated the islands of the South Pacific.

Then some 6,000 to 12,000 years ago these ancient mariners made it to the Americas. "I don't know how they came," Dr. Wallace says. "They either came across the Pacific to Central and South America or they went up the east coast of Asia and across the northern Pacific to Alaska and Canada," he says. He already is examining mtDNA samples from natives of the Kamchatka Peninsula north of Japan to see if there is any mtDNA trace of these ancient sailors.