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Why should Turrkey join the EU?

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  Quote aknc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Why should Turrkey join the EU?
    Posted: 26-Apr-2005 at 14:19
why??
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  Quote iskenderani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Apr-2005 at 15:12

As probably anyone knows there is absolutely no reason ( for Europe ) ..... except the interest of USA.

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  Quote Feramez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Apr-2005 at 16:37
They should not join.  Their economy is not ready, even though it is improving.  The cultures are too different, and the people definetly are.  Also, it's very clear most of Europe doesn't want Turkey in and the Turkish government keeps crawling and bending over for them, I see no pride in that.  Turkey should go with Asia, build an alliance with other Turkish nations.  Turkey can really stregnthen the other nations in many ways and quickly.  Don't copy and beg to be somebodys bitch, go do your own thing and make them copy you and crawl to you.  That's how I feel.
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  Quote Exarchus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Apr-2005 at 16:55
Well, there are pro and con arguments.

The pro arguments are obviously economical. Even if Eastern Europe is growing fast, they'll face demographic problem in the near future. Western Europe is already facing those exepted for France and UK who have what it needs to maintain a democgraphic grow. The goal would be that Europe would get a demographic reservoir. Turkey is also interesting by its geographic position having some gaz access Europe can't deny. The sword also swing two way because then Turkey could access the world wealthiest free trade zone and it would bring important employment feedback to Turkey. Turkey would also have access to a strong currency once the settings would be in position. Turkey also had a massive influence over Europe and its culture.

The con are more cultural and historical than economic. If we want a political Europe, Turkey will be hard to assimilate as being mostly in Asia. Culturaly, it is very different of Europe. Even if both are more secular than anything else, the muslim cultural impact on Turkey is just too different of Europe. Some will argue Bosnia has a lot of muslims too, but Bosnia also has a lot of christian. And even if in a secular union it doesn't matter, it still has its impact. This alone, should be a problem, but there are others. Turkey has borderlines with Syria, Iran and Iraq. Those could be problem as the borderline at Greece and Bulgaria would be much easier to watch on. The economic side isn't bright either. Turkey still having a long way to go to reach the level of Western Europe, and so does Eastern Europe some will argue.

Overall, it's a very complicated issue. But I can't think of Turkey as a European country.
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  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Apr-2005 at 18:29
I'll never forget, when I walked into that travel office in Istanbul to book a coach trip down south and there was this poster on the wall: "Visit Europe's highest mountain, Mount Ararat!"
If the Turks are that desperate to belong to Europe, they should. The more, the merrier!
Seriously, if Turkey should decide that it wants to orientate itself westwards, I can't see any reason why Europe should deny that wish. As long as Turkey fulfills, just like any country that wants to join, all political and economical criteria for the entry, there is no valid reason against it. It's their choice!
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  Quote iskenderani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Apr-2005 at 18:51

Originally posted by Komnenos

I'll never forget, when I walked into that travel office in Istanbul to book a coach trip down south and there was this poster on the wall: "Visit Europe's highest mountain, Mount Ararat!"
If the Turks are that desperate to belong to Europe, they should. The more, the merrier!
Seriously, if Turkey should decide that it wants to orientate itself westwards, I can't see any reason why Europe should deny that wish. As long as Turkey fulfills, just like any country that wants to join, all political and economical criteria for the entry, there is no valid reason against it. It's their choice!

Yes , it may be their choise , but who is going to pay the bill ????

Only the monetary help that is needed for the agricultural problems of Turkey , exeeds the economies ot the 10 latest members of EU added to each other...Who will pay ??? France ? Germany ? Holland ? all of them ? And why should they pay ? because Turkey decided to join ??

And what will be EU's gain ? Turkey's market ? which is a black hole of itself ? Or the great bazaar in which Europe will sell her products ? Europe has already this market under control. There is nowhere near someplace where Turkey can buy all that she needs , starting from electrical power .... to parts for her industrial machinery. If she wants to import them from China or India , she has to pay double cost. 

So , joining Europe is only for Turkey's favor , not Europe's as a whole...( and USA's favor as well ...dont we forget this . )

Besides IF Turkey becomes a member ....why not Irak too ( later ).....and maybe China , after some years...

EU is wxactly what it means .An European Union which may become a United European States some day....Asiatic countries have nothing to do in this Union.They can have one of their own....

Isk



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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Apr-2005 at 19:33

Isk:  Yes , it may be their choise , but who is going to pay the bill ????

 

It seems as a historian that you know that Greece had financial toubles prior to joing the E.U. And it still does: 

The European Union continues to discipline Greece for running a budget deficit far above the maximum allowed under the rules of the Eurozone.

 

Personally, Turkey could do business as it is now. EU or not.  Turkish builders are the main foreign contractors in Russian housing and infrastructure. New investments from South Korea and India are in the works. Once the middle east calms down, Iraq will continue to be another major source of exports. The Turkish denim industry is the worlds largest source of denim goods.  Natural gas and oil will be a major source of profits from the eastern countries. Food exports and textiles are a strong business sector. Tourism is growing leaps and bounds. Microsoft has plans to build the middle east's next 'silicon valley' in Istanbul. I see no hurry to join the EU.



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  Quote ArmenianSurvival Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Apr-2005 at 21:59

For the near future, it would be good for Turkey to join the EU because it will get its economy up and running faster. But in the long run, their economy can sustain itself and has the potential to grow.

But Turkey will not and cannot join the EU in the near future, because of continued pressure by Europe to accept the Armenian Genocide, which Turkey will not do, not in the near future anyway. France and Greece are the main nations that are laying down this criteria for Turkey.

Also i always read on the news how the EU wants Turkey to change sets of laws that it has in place. Those reforms take time. Until that time Turkey's economy has the potential to improve on its own.

And, someone mentioned the culture difference. The culture difference goes a long way for a lot of people. Turkey can still prosper if it places its interests eastward, the only difference being, it will take more time.

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  Quote iskenderani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Apr-2005 at 01:13
Originally posted by Seko

Isk:  Yes , it may be their choise , but who is going to pay the bill ????

 

It seems as a historian that you know that Greece had financial toubles prior to joing the E.U. And it still does: 

The European Union continues to discipline Greece for running a budget deficit far above the maximum allowed under the rules of the Eurozone.

Sure...but from ur side u tend to forget that Greece is no larger than London....and Turkey , IF admited will be the largest country in EU ...2 comlpeletely different matters.

 

Personally, Turkey could do business as it is now. EU or not.  Turkish builders are the main foreign contractors in Russian housing and infrastructure. New investments from South Korea and India are in the works. Once the middle east calms down, Iraq will continue to be another major source of exports. The Turkish denim industry is the worlds largest source of denim goods.  Natural gas and oil will be a major source of profits from the eastern countries. Food exports and textiles are a strong business sector. Tourism is growing leaps and bounds. Microsoft has plans to build the middle east's next 'silicon valley' in Istanbul. I see no hurry to join the EU.

Personally , i agree with u ....and i am happy to see that there r people there with a cool logic.

Isk.

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  Quote Alparslan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Apr-2005 at 01:56

Originally posted by Komnenos

I'll never forget, when I walked into that travel office in Istanbul to book a coach trip down south and there was this poster on the wall: "Visit Europe's highest mountain, Mount Ararat!"
If the Turks are that desperate to belong to Europe, they should. The more, the merrier!
Seriously, if Turkey should decide that it wants to orientate itself westwards, I can't see any reason why Europe should deny that wish. As long as Turkey fulfills, just like any country that wants to join, all political and economical criteria for the entry, there is no valid reason against it. It's their choice!

Do you know the borders of Europe not European Union? Just look at the map of Europe.

Armenia and Georgia is in Europe. Turkey is member of every European instutitions from sports to culture. The mount Agri (Ararat) is on the border of Armenia.

Secondly if you came to Istanbul you may see that when you cross the bosphorus over the bridge you will see that WELCOME TO ASIA text next to road.

In tourism the concept of "Europe" is used as a marketing tool. It would be better to take into consideration this fact if you want to interpret properly the sentence of  "Europe's biggest mountain Agri (Ararat)".    

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  Quote iskenderani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Apr-2005 at 02:54
Originally posted by Alparslan

Do you know the borders of Europe not European Union?

Yes...the geographical borders of Europe , are the Ural mountains in the East and Cyprus , Greece , Italy , Malta , Spain in South...

Any other question ?

Isk.



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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Apr-2005 at 12:16

I think Anatolia cannot be considered as part of Europe, but it is a bridge btw Europe and Asia.

The EU has also lots of reasons to want Turkey to join the union. For example, the great bazaar that Turkey will provide, the enormous manpower, the young population need in Europe for endustry, etc. Turkey will also provide a new trading adventage to Europe, and European Union's borders would reach until Iran in the East, with a geographical adventage. Turkey has also one of the richest underground resources amount in the world, but it cannot reach and use them, because of the lack of enough budget and opportunities to establish them.

But the membership of Turkey has also lots of disadvantages and hardness for both Turkey and E.U. Turkey's economy's development level cannot be even compared with the E.U. members'. But the other possible members of those past years, which are current members of E.U., also didnt have better economies than Turkey, even worse.

Turkey has a huge population and most of us are Muslims, so this will cause a contradiction too. We also dont have a common history and cultural structure with European nations, altough after the Lale Period in later Ottoman times and all those westernization movements, until the republican period, Turkey's governmental system and culture begin to be influenced with Europeans', and these influences spread all over the higher levels of social community.

One of the biggest worries of Europeans is the Turks moving to Europe with mas migrations after our membership. So they dont want to see some Asian Muslim Turks running in Paris streets freely, and having at least five children, like some of the immigrants of Turkey who once moved to Germany with an agreement of economical and endustry cooperations, in 60s, 70s and until today. I heard that today, there is a "dolmush" line in Berlin, and there are 3,5 million Turks in Germany.

E.U. wants lots of concessions from Turkey, and in a small time period. All of those new laws, the culturel contradictions bt us, and the issues of Cyprus, Armenians, etc. avoid Turkey's membership, and it seems impossible to just accept them. I heard that they even tried to want from us to stop animal sacrificing in the festivals, and stop eating Kokorech. In the later step, they will want us to end the religious announcements of "Azan" because public religious encouragement isnt allowed by E.U. So the membership of Turkey seems like only a game of international politics and benefits.

I also hated the signing procedure of European Constitution under the statue of Pope 5th Sixtus, whose main purpose was to erase Turks from the eath face. I couldnt believe how our current government could accept this, and I wondered how would the world react to this, but when I heard about the news, I heard that people all over Turkey heavily reacted this. I think that was a shame for our dignity.

I think Turkey shouldnt join the E.U., both for the sake of us and Europeans. We can search for more conformable and benefical unifications such as the possible unification of the Eastern powersi such as Russia, China and Iran. And the Turkic republics can provide a fine petrolium source and geographical adventages to this union with Turkey. Because history cannot be denied. European nations and civilizations are all bounded to each other with ancient origins, but our origins are Eastern and our civilization is. Everyone should realize which side they belong to...

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  Quote aknc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Apr-2005 at 13:11
we should definatly join
"I am the scourage of god appointed to chastise you,since no one knows the remedy for your iniquity exept me.You are wicked,but I am more wicked than you,so be silent!"
              
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Apr-2005 at 13:23

Originally posted by aknc

we should definatly join

I have to say that I dont agree with you.

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  Quote Feramez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Apr-2005 at 13:50
I don't agree also.  Oguzoglu, they want us to stop eating Kokorec?  Why the hell would they care what we eat?  That's another reason why I don't want Turkey to join.  The E.U. wants to control and change everything about Turkey.
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  Quote aknc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Apr-2005 at 13:50

 also hated the signing procedure of European Constitution under the statue of Pope 5th Sixtus, whose main purpose was to erase Turks from the eath face. I couldnt believe how our current government could accept this, and I wondered how would the world react to this, but when I heard about the news, I heard that people all over Turkey heavily reacted this. I think that was a shame for our dignity.

It's like a joke.People should not belive this stuff.Impossible

If the Eu demands much yes,we need not join for we will lose more that we take

Therefore it depends.

 

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  Quote aknc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Apr-2005 at 13:51

Originally posted by Feramez

They should not join.  Their economy is not ready, even though it is improving.  The cultures are too different, and the people definetly are.  Also, it's very clear most of Europe doesn't want Turkey in and the Turkish government keeps crawling and bending over for them, I see no pride in that.  Turkey should go with Asia, build an alliance with other Turkish nations.  Turkey can really stregnthen the other nations in many ways and quickly.  Don't copy and beg to be somebodys bitch, go do your own thing and make them copy you and crawl to you.  That's how I feel.

true.But culture is not an obstacle,our people is not educated very well,that's the problem

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  Quote aknc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Apr-2005 at 15:04
kokore?
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  Quote Exarchus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Apr-2005 at 16:42
What's Kokorec? Never heared of this.

The best option, is definitivly a free trade zone IMO. But not a political union.
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  Quote Feramez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Apr-2005 at 18:57

Originally posted by aknc

kokore?

Yes, I don't have the Turkish alphabet on my computer so I couldn't write it right.  Oguzoglu mentioned that the E.U. doesn't want the people of Turkey eating it.

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