As probably anyone knows there is absolutely no reason ( for Europe ) ..... except the interest of USA.

Isk.

Yes , it may be their choise , but who is going to pay the bill ????

Only the monetary help that is needed for the agricultural problems of Turkey , exeeds the economies ot the 10 latest members of EU added to each other...Who will pay ??? France ? Germany ? Holland ? all of them ? And why should they pay ? because Turkey decided to join ??

And what will be EU's gain ? Turkey's market ? which is a black hole of itself ? Or the great bazaar in which Europe will sell her products ? Europe has already this market under control. There is nowhere near someplace where Turkey can buy all that she needs , starting from electrical power .... to parts for her industrial machinery. If she wants to import them from China or India , she has to pay double cost. 

So , joining Europe is only for Turkey's favor , not Europe's as a whole...( and USA's favor as well ...dont we forget this . )

Besides IF Turkey becomes a member ....why not Irak too ( later ).....and maybe China , after some years...

EU is wxactly what it means .An European Union which may become a United European States some day....Asiatic countries have nothing to do in this Union.They can have one of their own....

Isk

Isk:  Yes , it may be their choise , but who is going to pay the bill ????

It seems as a historian that you know that Greece had financial toubles prior to joing the E.U. And it still does: 

The European Union continues to discipline Greece for running a budget deficit far above the maximum allowed under the rules of the Eurozone.

Personally, Turkey could do business as it is now. EU or not.  Turkish builders are the main foreign contractors in Russian housing and infrastructure. New investments from South Korea and India are in the works. Once the middle east calms down, Iraq will continue to be another major source of exports. The Turkish denim industry is the worlds largest source of denim goods.  Natural gas and oil will be a major source of profits from the eastern countries. Food exports and textiles are a strong business sector. Tourism is growing leaps and bounds. Microsoft has plans to build the middle east's next 'silicon valley' in Istanbul. I see no hurry to join the EU.

For the near future, it would be good for Turkey to join the EU because it will get its economy up and running faster. But in the long run, their economy can sustain itself and has the potential to grow.

But Turkey will not and cannot join the EU in the near future, because of continued pressure by Europe to accept the Armenian Genocide, which Turkey will not do, not in the near future anyway. France and Greece are the main nations that are laying down this criteria for Turkey.

Also i always read on the news how the EU wants Turkey to change sets of laws that it has in place. Those reforms take time. Until that time Turkey's economy has the potential to improve on its own.

And, someone mentioned the culture difference. The culture difference goes a long way for a lot of people. Turkey can still prosper if it places its interests eastward, the only difference being, it will take more time.

Isk.

Do you know the borders of Europe not European Union? Just look at the map of Europe.

Armenia and Georgia is in Europe. Turkey is member of every European instutitions from sports to culture. The mount Agri (Ararat) is on the border of Armenia.

Secondly if you came to Istanbul you may see that when you cross the bosphorus over the bridge you will see that WELCOME TO ASIA text next to road.

In tourism the concept of "Europe" is used as a marketing tool. It would be better to take into consideration this fact if you want to interpret properly the sentence of  "Europe's biggest mountain Agri (Ararat)".    

Yes...the geographical borders of Europe , are the Ural mountains in the East and Cyprus , Greece , Italy , Malta , Spain in South...

Any other question ?

Isk.

I think Anatolia cannot be considered as part of Europe, but it is a bridge btw Europe and Asia.

The EU has also lots of reasons to want Turkey to join the union. For example, the great bazaar that Turkey will provide, the enormous manpower, the young population need in Europe for endustry, etc. Turkey will also provide a new trading adventage to Europe, and European Union's borders would reach until Iran in the East, with a geographical adventage. Turkey has also one of the richest underground resources amount in the world, but it cannot reach and use them, because of the lack of enough budget and opportunities to establish them.

But the membership of Turkey has also lots of disadvantages and hardness for both Turkey and E.U. Turkey's economy's development level cannot be even compared with the E.U. members'. But the other possible members of those past years, which are current members of E.U., also didnt have better economies than Turkey, even worse.

Turkey has a huge population and most of us are Muslims, so this will cause a contradiction too. We also dont have a common history and cultural structure with European nations, altough after the Lale Period in later Ottoman times and all those westernization movements, until the republican period, Turkey's governmental system and culture begin to be influenced with Europeans', and these influences spread all over the higher levels of social community.

One of the biggest worries of Europeans is the Turks moving to Europe with mas migrations after our membership. So they dont want to see some Asian Muslim Turks running in Paris streets freely, and having at least five children, like some of the immigrants of Turkey who once moved to Germany with an agreement of economical and endustry cooperations, in 60s, 70s and until today. I heard that today, there is a "dolmush" line in Berlin, and there are 3,5 million Turks in Germany.

E.U. wants lots of concessions from Turkey, and in a small time period. All of those new laws, the culturel contradictions bt us, and the issues of Cyprus, Armenians, etc. avoid Turkey's membership, and it seems impossible to just accept them. I heard that they even tried to want from us to stop animal sacrificing in the festivals, and stop eating Kokorech. In the later step, they will want us to end the religious announcements of "Azan" because public religious encouragement isnt allowed by E.U. So the membership of Turkey seems like only a game of international politics and benefits.

I also hated the signing procedure of European Constitution under the statue of Pope 5th Sixtus, whose main purpose was to erase Turks from the eath face. I couldnt believe how our current government could accept this, and I wondered how would the world react to this, but when I heard about the news, I heard that people all over Turkey heavily reacted this. I think that was a shame for our dignity.

I think Turkey shouldnt join the E.U., both for the sake of us and Europeans. We can search for more conformable and benefical unifications such as the possible unification of the Eastern powersi such as Russia, China and Iran. And the Turkic republics can provide a fine petrolium source and geographical adventages to this union with Turkey. Because history cannot be denied. European nations and civilizations are all bounded to each other with ancient origins, but our origins are Eastern and our civilization is. Everyone should realize which side they belong to...

I have to say that I dont agree with you.

 also hated the signing procedure of European Constitution under the statue of Pope 5th Sixtus, whose main purpose was to erase Turks from the eath face. I couldnt believe how our current government could accept this, and I wondered how would the world react to this, but when I heard about the news, I heard that people all over Turkey heavily reacted this. I think that was a shame for our dignity.

It's like a joke.People should not belive this stuff.Impossible

If the Eu demands much yes,we need not join for we will lose more that we take

Therefore it depends.

true.But culture is not an obstacle,our people is not educated very well,that's the problem

Yes, I don't have the Turkish alphabet on my computer so I couldn't write it right.  Oguzoglu mentioned that the E.U. doesn't want the people of Turkey eating it.

http://www.sabah.com.tr/2004/10/30/siy103.html - http://www.sabah.com.tr/2004/10/30/siy103.html

Have a look at this link and see if this is a joke or not. If you watched the news, you could know this. This photo is memorable in every Turk's mind. I couldnt find a bigger version of this photo, if I can, I'll post it here.

I think if we could just get our economy better (some dream) then we woulnt need to join the EU.

On Kokore� ;I could easily do without eating sheeps guts.(so long as they dont bother my sucuk, past�rma or Kavurma)

Originally posted by eaglecap kokorec???? what is Kkorec? Am I missing out??

Kokorech is a Turkish food, made from the guts of sheeps, but you should eat it only when it is prepared clearly. I have eaten the most delicious kokorech in front of a small portative street restaurant (it is funny to call these even restaurants) in Kizilay, Ankara.

Originally posted by Phallanx Kokorech is a Turkish food, made from the guts of sheeps, but you should eat it only when it is prepared clearly. I have eaten the most delicious kokorech in front of a small portative street restaurant (it is funny to call these even restaurants) in Kizilay, Ankara. Actually the kokoretsi name derives from the Hellinic "adrachti"= spindle, that in the Arvanitic dialect (a mixture of Albanic-Slavic and Hellinic language) was named "koukouretzou". From that, we find the Slavs borrow it and name corn="koukourouza" due to its shape that is very similar to a spindle. So today we name kokoretsi parts of lamb lungs, heart, liver, kidney all "passed" on a stake and rapped(weaved) with the lamb's guts, barbecude over a calm fire untill it's all crispy. Damn delicious. eaglecap you should know this stuff.

do you recommend it to others?I might as well try it and not pass it saying "guts!wheh....."

Hmmm we have the same, but we call it Kurban.  According to EU health services we must stop eating it. So you must expect the same! 

I prefer drob - sarma! Do you know what it is?

I know it as being a Slavo-Albanian originated food. The Byzanthines learned it from them and then Ottomans derived lots of other foods from it. But doesnt matter, it is damn delicious as you said...

Kurban means sacrifice in Turkish. It is mostly used for the animals sacrificed in religious ways.

Actually, we really know what sarma is. It is derived from the verb "sarmak" in Turkish with the addition of "-ma" (sar+ma= sarma) and this means something which is covered, rulo shaped etc. I love it especially with yoghurt with garlic.

"-ma" (sar+ma= sarma) the addition of -"ma" makes it a name

Yeah, I heard all about this BS. I think it was 2yrs ago when this joke was on the news here.
 
Nothing has changed, (don't worry about it) we have NO intentions of changing our traditions because some   considers "Kokoresti", "Patsas" (a soup that made of a lamb's or cow's stomach, some eat it (I don't) after a looong night out drinking) or "Moscharokefali" (soup from the meat of a cow's head same use as "Patsas")

I guess 99.9% of Hellas is considered illegal under this stupid law, since this weekend during easter every single one of us had our traditional "kokoretsi".

Yes I know that "kurban" and "sarma" are turkish word, but don't what they mean. I too love sarmi /pl.n. sarma/, but drop sarma is preatty different .

We hear about you at the news! I think that with Bulgaria will be the same. We also won't be agreed to change our rituals and tradition because somebody decided that it's not healthy. We eat it from so long and still are alive....

There're aren't any! The king would stick his as* out of the window and "dump" on the garden below (that's how the roses got to grow so big

Exactly.Hamburgers should be banned.If they can ban kokorec because of it's "unhealthyness" they should ban hamburgers.Have you ever watched a hamburger ba made in burger king or sth.?Thge guy uses 2 year old gloves,or no gloves covered with dirt and wax,then he slaps your burger with lettuce and stuff.It would be better if you just licked the floor.

You didn't answer my question,will you recommend kokorec?

Kokorec - Smells good. Long as its clean, eat em up!

About Versailles, they took dumps in a vase or a large jug. No joke. That is what the tour guide told us during a visit there.

Clean? Oh, man if there isn't anything left in the intestines you lose all the taste.

I heard that the subjects would form a circle facing the opposite direction and his majesty would dump on the floor and then they'd clean up the mess.

In Versailles there was a combination. Some rooms had extensions at the windows facing the garden, where one could defecate out the window-into the garden. Very practical (not to mention ecological) but a bit smelly

Some others were using pots for that purpose. The servants would clean up in the morning.

Nononono,i wanted to ask if it had a negative fact about it.(exept the things in the interstines)

Is it too oily and stuff?

Oily????
What does oil have to do with it?
It's barbecued not fried.

Oily maybe not, but greasy the Kurban certainly is!!!!

Originally posted by ak�nc� OH!!!!  I TASTED IT AND.......WOW!!!!

What did you taste? Kurban or Koko.. whatever it was

This discussion here makes me feel hungry everytime I read the posts (except the one about "Hagis".)...

@ phallanx

 Anyway, we also have Pacha (Patsas) here in Turkey, but I dont know if it is Greek of Turkish food. And, do you have "shirdan" or anything like that in Greece?

I don't know Shirdan, what is it made of?  But Patsas was included in the Byzantine cuisine... at some point it's difficult to distinquish the origin of some food, especially since so many co-exist in the Balkans.

This is an interesting site: http://www.beeracademy.gr/EN/Sections/Franchising/ArheonGeuseis/Home.asp - http://www.beeracademy.gr/EN/Sections/Franchising/ArheonGeus eis/Home.asp

It's a chain of restaurants in Greece that specializes in re-creating ancient Greek recepies that survived through the centuries. Unfortunatelly not all of the site is yet translated into English...

Most of the recipes survived in a book called "DeipnoSophistes" by Athenaeus but others come from Homer, Plutarch and many others. Recently Time magazine reffered to this project and, humoursly suggested that it may replace Big Mac with Big Plato