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Was the cult of Great Mother exchanged with Jesus?

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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Was the cult of Great Mother exchanged with Jesus?
    Posted: 20-Jan-2012 at 09:20
INRI means:From the First Her,mother's connection!-in my language.
It says different here:
http://www.thenazareneway.com/inri_the_inscription_explained.htm
and here intrigue grows up:The gospel writers were not concerned with the exact wording, but were concerned with the exact meaning.
http://www.onenesspentecostal.com/inscription.htm




Edited by medenaywe - 06-Feb-2012 at 04:30
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jan-2012 at 04:44
Instead of Great Mother,Jesus had had his mother Mary!Was her name,Mory in the beginning?Connection with Great Mother,Ma(o!)Ri,still exists?In some areas of Med sea&Balkans,cult of Virgin Mary is bigger than Christ as God!Great Mother name literary translated means "Womb"=From Inside Nest!This one reminds us about first human habitats beneath the earth's surface also,but for me is proof about language which rules&existence have lasted from the dawn of human civilization!Here we have more about Pagan origin of herself:
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/mary.htm



Edited by medenaywe - 25-Jan-2012 at 16:00
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jan-2012 at 04:54
Here is official version from Council of Nicaea:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15459a.htm


Edited by medenaywe - 27-Jan-2012 at 06:16
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jan-2012 at 04:58
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jan-2012 at 06:23
How did Rome spreed around it adopt all religions from occupied territories:
Cybele entered the Roman sphere at a crucial juncture in history. In 205-202 BCE at the close of the Second Punic War, the Romans narrowly defeated Carthage, their rival for control of the western Mediterranean region. Bloodied but victorious, the state felt it owed some measure of that victory to Cybele, since, according to Roman historical records, it was on the advice of an oracle that her worship had been imported to Italy.
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jan-2012 at 06:49
Main claim is:Virgin Ma(o)ry(i) character in ancient screenplay was created for Jesus support,cause believers of Great Mother were most numerous!New religion was established on top of it's most popular predecessor!


Edited by medenaywe - 29-Jan-2012 at 02:29
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jan-2012 at 04:22
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jan-2012 at 19:23
Actually INRI is the abbreviation of Jesus of Nazereth King (Rex) of the Jews. The bible itself verifies this
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jan-2012 at 21:43
Originally posted by Nick1986

Actually INRI is the abbreviation of Jesus of Nazareth King (Rex) of the Jews. The bible itself verifies this
 
Correct.
 
Given by the Romans not Jews... as a title of respect and or derision (depends on viewpoint and interpret) at his crucifixion...as a means of identifying what they viewed as a political criminal. This in turn based on his professions and the manipulation of his words by the Elders. Not necessarily as the council id' ...as an apostate-blasphemer etc.
 
The leap is to far to assume he is related as a mother cult replacement or that his mother was his superior.  For one thing he was male not female consequently an identification of him as a replacement for a maternal figure is an oxymoron at best....revisionist at worst.  As for his mother... Scripture deny's this.
 
She is not worshipped.. she is venerated. There is a significant difference.
 
 
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2012 at 01:36
Those people worship her.In Balkans,there are lot of places with St.Mary local celebration according church calender of course!Meaning of INRI as one of possibilities is one that is exposed above!Bible and it's texts inside have passed long duration copy&paste period of time so that,real meaning&purpose of them(INRI) could be known today!But according some new data about language should be revealed by me,It is one of possibilities.Non logical today does not means,non logical in that moment when religion had been changed and New one established by Rome!
Those people in Italy also worship her:(Their PaPa also!)Smile
http://www.asiaone.com/News/AsiaOne+News/World/Story/A1Story20100510-215260.html



Edited by medenaywe - 26-Jan-2012 at 01:42
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  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2012 at 03:07
The Virgin Mary was just another projection of the cult of the Great Mother/Inanna/Isis etc. She has all the signs of a Great Mother:
- being self-sufficient = the virgin birth, since no man is neccessary for it. She being ompregnated with teh word of god is only due to the change of society from matriarchal to patriarchal, hence God became male.
- giving birth of life = Jesus is the eternal life itself, the change from physical to spiritual life is only because the society became able to think in more symbolic way.
- taking care of females, birth, death = Mother Mary is seen as female-caretaker, called and prayed for women in labour.

All in all, the Great Goddess is one of the human cultural archetypes, those cultural matrixes that are filled with new content, but retain the old one. In some ways the Virgin was accepted because the cultural archetype pf the Great Goddess was so old and accepted one.
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2012 at 03:23
Yes,that's one of the points of this story.Other one is:Were Jesus&Mary contemporary followers of this cult
most extended in ancient world those days?
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  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2012 at 16:49
Was there ever truly a "cult of the the great mother goddess"?   My general impression is that the idea of a trans cultural "mother goddess" is largely a creation of the modern (post 1960s)  neo paganism or new age movements in the USA. 
 
Though ancient cultures did have fertility goddeses and a variety of other female dieties, I dont think there is any archaelogical evidence of a universal "mother goddess cult".


Edited by Cryptic - 26-Jan-2012 at 16:51
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  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2012 at 18:49
Originally posted by Cryptic

Was there ever truly a "cult of the the great mother goddess"?   My general impression is that the idea of a trans cultural "mother goddess" is largely a creation of the modern (post 1960s)  neo paganism or new age movements in the USA. 
 
Though ancient cultures did have fertility goddeses and a variety of other female dieties, I dont think there is any archaelogical evidence of a universal "mother goddess cult".

I'm not talking about Gimbutas and the supposed universsl Neolithic cult to Mother-Goddess, this may be so, maybe not, even though I think she has a good case; I'm talking about the fertility godesses that were around since Catal Huyuk, and later were transformed in goddesses for the type of Inanna/Isis/Cotys/Cybele/Kali, etc. Moreover, I'm talking about cultural archetypes, which fit into each other, as Campbell talks about. Whatever the case is, the Virgin Mary image is one directly coming from Inanna/Isis/Kali, notwithstanding if the last came from any supposed universal cult, or not.
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  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2012 at 19:12
Originally posted by medenaywe

Yes,that's one of the points of this story.Other one is:Were Jesus&Mary contemporary followers of this cult
most extended in ancient world those days?

AFAIK the early Christianity shared ground with the Roman state religion, /which, like the Greek one, had plenty of female goddesses that took aspects of the Great Mother archetypal image/, and with the Egyptian religion, /whose Isis is another Great Mother/, and the Anatolian Cybele, who was adopted in Roma as "Magna Mater" /which means exactly Great Mother/, so when Christianity was made an official religion, Virgin Mary just slid in the place of those female deities.

In other words, the Great Mother under different names, but with the same function, was widespread all over the Roman Empire, and were worshipped with gusto. Caligula is known to have relied on the Great Mother, in the face of Isis /but he called her "Great Mother", just like Cybele/, and legitimized her in Rome, and all his sisters were priestesses on Isis.
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2012 at 19:28
INRI is the origin of the expression "Jesus H Christ." The H stands for HenryLOL
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  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2012 at 22:28
Originally posted by Don Quixote

  Moreover, I'm talking about cultural archetypes, which fit into each other, as Campbell talks about. Whatever the case is, the Virgin Mary image is one directly coming from Inanna/Isis/Kali, notwithstanding if the last came from any supposed universal cult, or not.
 
I understand now.   I think it may well be so.  As a side note, it is somewhat common for Hindus in India and Trinidad to worship at Catholic or Orthodox shrines to the virgin Mary as some Hindus feel that she is a representation of the Hindu goddess Durga. 
 
One interesting thing, however, is that Judaism, though it is more ancient that Christianity, lacks a possible mother goddess figure.  Though there are isolated references to Yahweh "and consort" , there references are few and far between.  
 
I would not be surprised if very early Christianity also lacked the mother goddess connection.  Maybe the concept was then placed in Christianity to make it more appealing to pagan converts.
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  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2012 at 23:45
Originally posted by Cryptic

Originally posted by Don Quixote

  Moreover, I'm talking about cultural archetypes, which fit into each other, as Campbell talks about. Whatever the case is, the Virgin Mary image is one directly coming from Inanna/Isis/Kali, notwithstanding if the last came from any supposed universal cult, or not.
 
I understand now.   I think it may well be so.  As a side note, it is somewhat common for Hindus in India and Trinidad to worship at Catholic or Orthodox shrines to the virgin Mary as some Hindus feel that she is a representation of the Hindu goddess Durga. 
 
One interesting thing, however, is that Judaism, though it is more ancient that Christianity, lacks a possible mother goddess figure.  Though there are isolated references to Yahweh "and consort" , there references are few and far between.  
 
I would not be surprised if very early Christianity also lacked the mother goddess connection.  Maybe the concept was then placed in Christianity to make it more appealing to pagan converts.

This about the Hindis and Durga is very interesting, I didn't know it, and it's exactly what I'm talking about here - a cultural matrix on the go. In the same way Herodotus equated Greek and Egyptian and Thracian divinities, trying to match them by functions, and saying that Zeus was Amun, etc.

Judaism doesn't have a mother figure, that's right. I suspect that the reason for that is the Jewish society was so strictly patriarchal, and they needed very strong discipline in order to survive as a small desert tribe; this combined with strict monotheism didn't allow for mother figure. In Egypt, when Akhenaten tried to introduce monotheism, it also had only one male divinity, Aten. We can only try to search for possible reasons why one religion develops one kind of idea, and another doesn't.

Gnosticism seems to have had a strong female presence in it, several of the Gnostic "scriptures" are devoted to the female Soul/Sofia/Wisdom/,  /this one is my favorite http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/thunder.html and not coincidentally, IMHO, the idea of Mary Magdalene as a special disciple is documented in the  http://www.gnosis.org/library/marygosp.htm

Anyway, I'll quote a little from the first "scripture' I linked here:
"...For I am the first and the last.
I am the honored one and the scorned one.
I am the whore and the holy one.
I am the wife and the virgin.
I am <the mother> and the daughter.
I am the members of my mother.
I am the barren one
and many are her sons.
I am she whose wedding is great,
and I have not taken a husband.
I am the midwife and she who does not bear.
I am the solace of my labor pains.
I am the bride and the bridegroom,
and it is my husband who begot me.
I am the mother of my father
and the sister of my husband
and he is my offspring.
I am the slave of him who prepared me.
I am the ruler of my offspring.
But he is the one who begot me before the time on a birthday.
And he is my offspring in (due) time,
and my power is from him....

This is an absolute description of the attribute of the mother Goddess - self-sufficient, life-giving, life-and-death, beginning-and-the-end. My guess here is that the Gnostics patterned Sofia/Soul/Mary-of-Magdala on the Great Mother. Here from the Mary's gospel:

"...1) But they were grieved. They wept greatly, saying, How shall we go to the Gentiles and preach the gospel of the Kingdom of the Son of Man? If they did not spare Him, how will they spare us?

2) Then Mary stood up, greeted them all, and said to her brethren, Do not weep and do not grieve nor be irresolute, for His grace will be entirely with you and will protect you.

3) But rather, let us praise His greatness, for He has prepared us and made us into Men.

4) When Mary said this, she turned their hearts to the Good, and they began to discuss the words of the Savior.

5) Peter said to Mary, Sister we know that the Savior loved you more than the rest of woman.

6) Tell us the words of the Savior which you remember which you know, but we do not, nor have we heard them.

7) Mary answered and said, What is hidden from you I will proclaim to you....

So, with Jesus dead, the disciples are all worried, and turn to Mary as to someone who was "special", and who received special knowledge from Jesus. So, this is what she tells them:

"...10) And desire said, I did not see you descending, but now I see you ascending. Why do you lie since you belong to me?

11) The soul answered and said, I saw you. You did not see me nor recognize me. I served you as a garment and you did not know me.

12) When it said this, it (the soul) went away rejoicing greatly..."


This is typical female imagery, and the disciples don;t understand it, so Peter start saying that this is nonsense, then Levy:

"... Now I see you contending against the woman like the adversaries.

8) But if the Savior made her worthy, who are you indeed to reject her? Surely the Savior knows her very well.

9) That is why He loved her more than us...."

Anyway, the words of Mary are very similar for the imagery in the 'Thunder: and another Gnostic scripture  http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/exe.html  in which the Souls is seen as female and strikingly similar to both the "Thunder" and the words of Mary of Magdala. I see 2 possibilities here:
-  first, the female image Soul/Sofia/Mary of Magdala being patterned after the Great Mother
- second, the possibility that Mary who came later to be seen as wife of Jesus by some "heretic" Christian groups was seen as united with Jesus in a "Hiero gamos" from the type Inanna=Dumuzi, Isis+Osiris - in other words, between the Great Mother and the dying-and-ressurected-god, which Jesus was in the same archetypal patterning suggested by Campbell and others Dumuzi/Osisris/Dionysos/Jesus was one and the same matrix.

But, since the Gnostics were beaten as a Christian possibility and the mainstream Christianity develop from another Christian/philosophic groups, the Virgin Mary got to be the one to fulfill the female role, to substitute for the needs of people to fill with meaning what they had before on the face of the Great Mother. In teh same principle the Catholic and Orthodox saints came to be about - many of them /but not all/ are patterned after pagan divinities, like St. Bridgit after the Celtic Brigit /who was called the Triple Goddess, and was a variety of the Great Mother/ http://www.druidry.org/obod/deities/brigid.html

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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2012 at 01:19
Originally posted by Cryptic

Was there ever truly a "cult of the the great mother goddess"?   My general impression is that the idea of a trans cultural "mother goddess" is largely a creation of the modern (post 1960s)  neo paganism or new age movements in the USA. 
 
Though ancient cultures did have fertility goddeses and a variety of other female dieties, I dont think there is any archaelogical evidence of a universal "mother goddess cult".

 I am trying to be objective about this subject and will ask:When&Why did they put mother's(blade) obelisk in front of St.Peter's Basilica than Cyrus?(It was there in 1630,it has been there from the beginning!)
http://www.sacred-destinations.com/italy/rome-st-peters-basilica-photos/slides/1630-painting-by-viviano-codazzi
Pope needed Mother's help as it looks?!?


Edited by medenaywe - 27-Jan-2012 at 01:21
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2012 at 01:36
Little copy&paste from historical databases:
Originally, it stood in Heliopolis. In the 1st century, Augustus had it moved to Alexandria, dedicating it to the memory of Julius Caesar, his stepfather. In AD 37, emperor Caligula had it taken to Rome as a decoration for the stadium whose making was in progress by the Vatican Hill. This building became known as the Circus of Gaius (i.e. Caligula's actual name) and Nero, having been completed under the latter emperor.
Since no hieroglyphs are inscribed on its shaft, the dating of this obelisk is difficult.
And full link about it for you here:
http://roma.andreapollett.com/S3/roma-co1.htm
Great Mother cult has been replaced by Jesus since beginning as it looks and St.Mary supported it!In Americas old religious cults have been changed couple of centuries before!(They have practiced them still!)Even Pope needed Mother's blade,did he believe in Her force,we could only ask ourselves!Big smile
Obelisk presence was elder than Christianity,on Vatican's main Square!If it is,who was before,Goddess in charge?


Edited by medenaywe - 27-Jan-2012 at 02:22
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