Lost Polish territories

 

Really? I thought you are quoting it.

What are you talking about?

Originally posted by mosquito Originally posted by The Golden Phallanx Do not try and downplay my father, they left because the country was raised to the ground and the Soviets were coming with murder on their minds. Only a fool would stay, but I guess you would have, that also makes sense seeing what you are. So? most of the Germans are fools only your father was smart. Prolly he did somthing really bad during war and had no choise but escape to Canada. Along with those who escaped to Argentina.

Just a little prejudice don't you think? Weren't you calling my father rubbish previously?  Actually my father was 4 years old when the war ended. His crime might have been having too much baby fat. Not sure what you're referring to You jump to many conclusions kid.

My grandfather on the other hand was a technicien before the war and his family, so my father's during his youth, was very well off and had such things as a vacuum cleaner and a house water system. When the war began; he, like many other brain washed intellectuals as ironic as that sounds, joinned the nazi ranks and trained Luftwaffe pilots. Midway through the war he finally decided to stand up agaisnt what he did not agree with which was what he was seeing and basically the Nazi ideal. Sadly, he did not fully understand how criminal the nazies were and so endured much scrutiny by the Nazies and it is believed that had Germany won the war, he'd be executed for treason. So maybe this standing up agaisnt the Nazi overlords is the crime you're referring to?

In any case, you have no business speaking of my father or grandfather were you to choose to comment so I will kindly ask you to shut that frightiningly ugly black hole in your face. You will be doing both of us a favour. Poor kid, and if you have some german blood in you, all kool, but it's not really important because it is the spirit of freedom for germany that counts.

Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit
F�r das Deutsche Vaterland.
Danach la�t uns alle streben,
Br�derlich mit Herz und Hand.

Anyways, this isn't a discussion anymore but jsut you two loners attempting ot mock me so I'll leave it at that. And Temujin, you can hate me all you like but don't hate your coutnry because I love it. [Modern dya germany you idiot!] Most germans I've met are amazed to find someone of german descent who can still speak german in the american continent, that is why I usually get along well with them, I myself always looking to better my speach. I'll take ntoe not to bring up anything historic between the years 1871 and 1991 seeing how this is the period you ppl love bashing yourselves, a hobby I haven't quiet mastered yet.

 

Edited by The Golden Phallanx

aye, big time!

Originally posted by The Golden Phallanx (cough cough*I smell nazism cough cough*)

Nonsense. Nazis based the concept of nationality/ethnicity on genetic makeup, which would make you German (or at least more German than you are now). Komnenos and Temujin however, base the concept of nationality on culture, making nationality relative.
In other words: if Temujin and Komnenos really are nazis they would have called you German.

I can't answer for Komnenos but not the whole rest of the country dislikes it. It is a Bavarian celebration but as far as I know it is spreading all over germany. Many germans do celebrate it. The reason why I can imagine it must be disliekd in some parts is simply because of the excessive drinking which leads to much vandalism and abuse and crime in general so with ruffians, it can be a very inproper occasion. In most cases however; it isn't that bad and is just a time to sit back, enjoy a good meal and socialize and sing.

Originally posted by strategos May I ask about why dislike Okoberfest? Do they not celebrate it or.. can you explain a little bit on this?

because it's something exclusively bavarian, and bavarians are rather different from other Germans, but foreigners who don't know the difference between German "tribes" think it's an all-German thing. let's best compare it with Christopher street day, all homosexuals in the US celebrate their affiliation that day and eventually it became so popular that it was exported and now is celebrated all over the (free) world. but nobody would considder Christopher street day a typically American thing, it's just some small group.

Originally posted by The Golden Phallanx They were justifying who is german by blood.

no we did not. I know Turks born and raised up here that are perfectly German, they even speak local dialects etc. they're by far more German than you, and contrary to what you believe, it was their parents and other Hilfsarbeiter that helped rebuilding the war-torn Germany after WW2.

Edited by Temujin

Just in case this post was directed at me...

Originally posted by Mosquito Well, if i was a german i wouldnt dare to say anything on this subject. Poland lost 6 million citisens and most of them were murdered by Germans and Russians. Poland lost its eastern territories because of joined invasion of Germany and Russia. Just for fun Germans razed some cities to the ground. Think about Warsaw. Germany exploited Poland and its people during 5 years long ocupation and so far didnt pay anything for the disaster which brought to my country. Germany drafted 250.000 polish citisens to Wermaht, claiming that they are Germans not Poles. The lands which Stalin, FDR and Churchill took from Germany and gave Poland covered only a small part of this what Poland lost due to German agression. And stealing polish eastern provinces had no real excuse because Poland was in the victorious camp in that war and shouldnt be treated as defeated enemy. Claiming that multinational habsburg monarchy had any rights to Lvov i find ridiculous. Russia, Prussia and Austria all together simply jumped on the Commonwealth of Poland and Lithuania and stole what wasnt their. You should remember that Prussia was nothing more but revolted lenient of polish and lithuanian kingdom and existed only because of the mercy of king Sigismundus the Old. Gdansk was a polish city which during partitions had no will to join Prussia and Prussians had to besiege it. Germany so far didnt pay even part of its debt for the disaster it caused during 2 WW. Whats moreGermans had the help of USA after the war when Germany was rebuilding itself while Stalin in the name of Poland refused any american help and benefits of Marshal plan which were offered to us. If it wasnt enough for 50 years my country was exploited by Soviet Union like a colony and Russians were taking from us whatever wanted for free. So before you say anything my german friends just think what your parents and grandfathers did and consider the fact that we are still suffering consequences of their dirty war. Right now major of my city decided to count how much my city lost due to german agression and occupation. Who knows, maybe my city will sue Germany for the war reparations.

No need to exaggerate your victimhood, really. Esp. regarding those polish citizens with german nationality, whether they were conscripted to the Nazi armies or whether they are included within the number of six million dead polish citizens. It's well-known what Poland's attitude and actions towards its dear german-speaking minority were like, before and especially after WWII. If you have an axe to grind (which definitely would be understandable, esp. had you lived back then), it is probably better (for you) to leave poland's pre-WWII german minority out of it.

btw. my grandfather spend his time in some Sturmgesch�tzersatzkompanie in southern France, just in case you wanna know.

Anyway, this topic - as far as I have understood - is not about who did what wrong, but about which territories Poland has lost. However, Poland has not only lost territories, it also has gained some. It has gained territories, which it later lost, right after WWI, and has gained other territories right after WWII. If you want to start re-changing your borders, you really shouldn't be so offended if others get similar ideas.

 

P.S. and don't say Germany paid nothing to poland after WWII. It got all the german areas east of the Oder(Odra?)-Neisse(Nysa?)-line (if you have doubts about who inhabited those territories, just look at the results of the respective post-Versailles referendums), except the northern part of east prussia.

Originally posted by yan. No need to exaggerate your victimhood, really.

sounds very nice from german mouth. Yes, no need to exaggerate number of murdered people.

Originally posted by yan. Esp. regarding those polish citizens with german nationality, whether they were conscripted to the Nazi armies

My grandfather was of polish nationality but was conscripted against his will to Wermaht. He was simply informed that is german, not polish. And my grandfather didnt spent his time in France but on eastern front.

Originally posted by yan. It's well-known what Poland's attitude and actions towards its dear german-speaking minority were like, before and especially after WWII.

Sounds hitlerish. I guess the Poles put 3 millions germans to gaschambers. Germans have every right to kill Poles because misstreated Germans minority.

Originally posted by yan. P.S. and don't say Germany paid nothing to poland after WWII. It got all the german areas east of the Oder(Odra?)-Neisse(Nysa?)-line (if you have doubts about who inhabited those territories, just look at the results of the respective post-Versailles referendums), except the northern part of east prussia.

Yes i know. Germans rebuilt Poland. As for the lands it were given for exchange to Poland. Altough Poland didnt like this exchange it was decided by Stalin, FDR and Churchill and noone asked the Poles. So blame them not us. Those territories were already robbed by the Red Army.

As for reparations you didnt pay any. My grandfather also didnt recive any compensation and almost finished in Siberia. 

I don't think wehrmacht soldiers did get any compensation (could be wrong here, however), no matter if they wanted to be part of it or not.

I dont care for german soldiers. They were fighting for their fatherland and their nazi party. My grandfather was polish and had polish surname which even doesnt sound german. In his company his german comrades were calling him "verfluhte Pole" or somthing like that.

He was probably lucky that he wasn't kicked out of the country after WWII.

He was in prison and later escaped from transport which was going to Siberia.

Actually, I was trying to say that Poland shouldn't complain about how germany treated Poland's german minority.

And Germans shouldn't complain about how Poland treated german minority.

Polish complaining about how germany treated Poland's jewish minority doesn't sound that convincing either, given events like in jedwabne.

Such things didnt happend when Poland was independent but when it was ruled by Germany. And it were Germans who were inspiring such events.

Ill tell you one example. Just after begining of occupation in Warsaw one polish criminalist attacked a jew and robbed him. Polish courts were still working. Polish police arrested the bandit and took him the the court. Polish judge found him guilty and sentenced him for prison. What was the final of this story? Germans executed polish judge.

Also polish underground state was giving death sentences to those who were denouncing Jews and those sentences were being executed.

Maybe you right that there was no love towards national minorities in Poland but there was also no such persecuations like those which took place in Germany. Polish Jews were safe and safe was their property untill Germans came and did the same what did few years earlier in Germany.

As for Czechoslovakia Poland only took back this what Czechoslovakia has stolen in 1920 when the whole polish army was on the eastern front fighting against soviets. It would have probably ended in war but french mediators enforced peace. Afcourse it was stupid and unnecessary but polish goverment in 1938 saw it in the different light.

And when i said that your accusations for mistreating german minority sound hitlerish i just said truth. It was part of the nazi propaganda. Affcourse it wasnt enough. Germans dressed its german criminals in polish uniforms and ordered them to kill some peaceful germans in Gleiwitz radio station to proove how murderous towards Germans the Poles are.

polands relations to nazi germany weren't all that bad before 1938

Because you wanted to change us into allies just like you did with Hungarians and others. When you saw that we wont be your allies and that we refuse to give you even a piece of polish soil you decided to exterminate us.

Altough, after all i want to stress one thing. This discussion slowly change into very nationalistic quarell. Im not a real nationalist and i feel no hate towards Germans or Germany. It is just this discussion which turns into bad thing.

 

Edited by Mosquito

Originally posted by Styrbiorn Originally posted by Mosquito I dont care for german soldiers. They were fighting for their fatherland and their nazi party. Bullsh*t. Some did, surely, but don't believe for a second that every single German was a no-good Nazi schwein. Most were normal people who didn't want to have anything to do with it, just like your grandfather.

So at least they fought for their country. My grandfather wasnt German. And was telling it them really often.

Here is my grandfather in polish and in german uniform:

Edited by Mosquito