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boody4
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Topic: Lost Polish territories Posted: 24-Aug-2004 at 10:29 |
I started talking about this a bit on another thread(about Macedonia and it's lost territories,and I was explaining Poland's situation on lost territories) and someone suggested I should open a thread about this, because it would be an interesting discussion. I'll paste what I wrote on the subject and tell me what you think of the subject:
"Well technically, it's already been reunited since WW1, but after WW2 it lost most of its historic territories to the East. I understand about giving territories to Lithuania, because it was part of Poland. But I think giving Lviv/Lwow to Ukraine was a big mistake. It's undeniable that it should belong to Poland, it has nearly always belonged to Poland, until the partitions. And it's not like the Ukraine needs it, the country is already bigger than Poland. Most of the territories lost to Poland after WW2, were just to make the neighbouring emerging states have a faster building and better economy. For example, they gave a bit of territory majoritarily inhabited by Polish people to the Czech republic, just because in that territory there was a strong mining industry. Today, Poland is feeling the effect of this mistake (my opinion) with it's "highest unemployment rate" in Europe.
Also, it is the same case for Belarus, Slovakia and Ukraine. They received those territories because of its important industries. Also, why give a piece of territory North of Poland to Russia. It is obvious that ethnically it didn't belong to Russia nor historically. I say it should have been given to Lithuania, if Poland wouldn't have been the first contender.
Another remark that I'd like to make is that why they didn't just give more Russian territory to Belarus and Ukraine instead of Polish territory."
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rider
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Posted: 24-Aug-2004 at 12:48 |
If Poland would have all the lands it had in 17th century it would be a country...(biggest in Europe)
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Mosquito
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Posted: 24-Aug-2004 at 16:11 |
I think it has nothing to do with a notion "mistake".
It was the well planned decision of Stalin, Roosevelt and Churchill.
I dont miss for any old eastern polish territories except Lwow city.
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boody4
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Posted: 24-Aug-2004 at 23:45 |
Perhaps it wasn't a "mistake", but it's not like it made a lot of advantages for Poland. Also don't you miss purely Polish cities also like Bresc, etc.?
And you know Stalin, he had his interestest in USSR... he wanted more industry in it.
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JanusRook
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Posted: 25-Aug-2004 at 15:37 |
You can't dwell in the past about these things, if you go historically we could rationalize the lack of an entire polish state. I mean its fine and all to reflect on how Poland made these cities great but they aren't polish anymore, think of them as Poland's daughters that grew up. Sure they're still in the family, but their married to other people now and they have another family.
Same goes for other nations with claims, if you can still celebrate and reflect on your mother nation's heritage than just deal with the current geopolitical situation. Borders are losing barrier status anyway.
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Economic Communist, Political Progressive, Social Conservative.
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boody4
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Posted: 25-Aug-2004 at 23:24 |
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demon
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Posted: 26-Aug-2004 at 05:28 |
Yup. Superpowers are historically-ignorant when it comes to land dividing.
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Grrr..
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Jalisco Lancer
Sultan
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Joined: 07-Aug-2004
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Posted: 26-Aug-2004 at 18:28 |
Tell me about it ( Map of Mexico 1845 )
The boundaries with Texas are not reflecting the border at the River Nueces.
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boody4
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Posted: 26-Aug-2004 at 19:48 |
It might be mountains that were used to define the border......
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Gubook Janggoon
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Posted: 26-Aug-2004 at 23:44 |
This is like Korea claiming all of Southern Manchuria because the
Koguryo Kingdom once resided there, not very practical...We can marvel
at the prowess and strengths of our ancestors, but if regaining that
glory means the suffering of innocent peoples, that path should not be
taken....
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boody4
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Posted: 27-Aug-2004 at 13:03 |
Also, at the time the areas lost to Poland WERE inhabited by Poles, especially the Lwow region.
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boody4
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Posted: 05-Sep-2004 at 17:48 |
What is you guys' opinion on Russia getting part of ex-oriental Prussia?
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Guests
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Posted: 10-Sep-2004 at 13:57 |
eh painful discusion (lithuanians could win first place for lost grounds too many wars, too many ocupations...nothing remained)
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Guests
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Posted: 10-Sep-2004 at 14:06 |
I think it is a major historical mistake. Great germans were from Knisberg (Gauss, Kant..).
The same for Polish East territories. Anyway the list could be far greater:
Kiev, Crimea and Belarus are separated from Russia, Setimania and Gascunye from Spain, Transilvania and Vojvodina from Hungary and so on.
The point is not to fight any more because of this, given that population is more or less where it is supposed to be, minorities are not oppressed, and EU is advancing.
If Spain were to fight for every land we have lost it would be a big big task to do.
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Guests
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Posted: 15-Sep-2004 at 22:27 |
Originally posted by demon
Yup. Superpowers are historically-ignorant when it comes to land dividing. |
Super Powers are usualy ignorant when it comes to anything outside thier own borders. They are too quick to judge other nations, and not quick enough to reflect apon their own actions.
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Paul
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Posted: 16-Sep-2004 at 06:53 |
Surely worrying about historic borders is a bit redundant........ I mean I don't know if you've noticed, you're not even a country anymore.
You're just an administrative region of the EU. You don't have a passport, currency or independant economy. Your government and courts can be overuled on any issue by Brussels. Any other EU national has as much right to live, work and scrounge off the social security system in your 'country' as you. And this is just the beginning.
But then again you could look at it another way. In few years the Baltic states will be in the EU too and then the Ukraine. By 2020 Russian will join and Poland will not only have all it's historic territory but a whole lot more.
Edited by Paul
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Guests
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Posted: 16-Sep-2004 at 08:25 |
Yes, it's a good superation of traditional and stupid european quarrels, isn't it?
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JanusRook
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Posted: 16-Sep-2004 at 10:30 |
What is you guys' opinion on Russia getting part of ex-oriental Prussia?
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It's crap.
Russia was justified though since its always wanted warm water ports.
Although I think it should've been given to Lithuania or something (exclaves are a pet peeve of mine on maps).
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Economic Communist, Political Progressive, Social Conservative.
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TJK
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Posted: 16-Sep-2004 at 12:01 |
In few years the Baltic states will be in the EU too |
Hmm ..and when they leave EU..have I missed some event ?
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Sarmata
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Posted: 16-Sep-2004 at 13:49 |
How exactly would Poland regain lost territory form Russia, if or when Russia joins the EU?
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