where black africans savages prior to colonization

Originally posted by Nick1986 Originally posted by Boma Originally posted by Nick1986 Originally posted by Mountain Man In fact, Africans were not "savages" -their civilizations were quite sophisticated in many ways, but they peaked before the arrival of Europeans and presented a picture of simple people, but the ruins all over Africa say otherwise. The Great Fortress of Zimbabwe was built long before European savages even thought about building fortresses out of solid stone, and reveals a degree of sophistication not seen again until until the great stone fortresses of Europe and the Crusades. Irrigation systems in desert lands were highly sophisticated and still exist - and function - to this day. Take the ancient Egyptians, for example. They built magnificent pyramids, temples and cities while Europeans still lived in mud huts and wore animal skins Uhm !! Ancient Egyptians ? The Ancient Egyptians became cannibals  after their destruction by the ARABS. The few that survived are mostly in Nigeria today with no knowledge of their origin. What happened ? They lost every thing including the civilization their forefathers  started  and became savages . So you're saying colonisation transformed them from a great civilisation into savages?

You know Arabization leads to primitivity because people are limited  to Islamic principles which do not have room for innovation. And so yes the invasion of Egypt and other parts of AFRICA by the ARABS  actually led Africans to become savages. Our civilization is not given chance to progress.

[/QUOTE] So you're saying colonisation transformed them from a great civilisation into savages?[/QUOTE]

Was I that unclear when I said that the ancient African civilizations had peaked and declined before the Europeans came onto the scene?

As I have mention at least twice before, the early African tribes and cultures were remarkably sophisticated.  The advent of Europeans, if anything, furthered their decline by arbitrarily laying down borders without regard for tribal claims - thus promoting internecine warfare - and by making the African dependent upon the European technology .

Originally posted by Ekundayo Originally posted by Mountain Man So you're saying colonisation transformed them from a great civilisation into savages?

Was I that unclear when I said that the ancient African civilizations had peaked and declined before the Europeans came onto the scene?

As I have mention at least twice before, the early African tribes and cultures were remarkably sophisticated.  The advent of Europeans, if anything, furthered their decline by arbitrarily laying down borders without regard for tribal claims - thus promoting internecine warfare - and by making the African dependent upon the European technology .
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I agree with you that certain tribes on the African Continent were remarkably sophisticated but don't agree that all had already peaked and declined before Europeans came onto the scene. The West African coast was still rockin', particularly the Kingdom of Benin, when the very first *white men* threw anchor off the coast. High ranking ambassadors of the kingdom there were first taken back as honored guests to see the sites of Europe. Give me some time and I'll get references.
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Benin kingdom is not by the coast and the first Europeans that reached that part of Africa never met Benin immediately they arrived. Benin people  were naked and wearing no cloth. Benin people  never knew how to make fire.  And so eating raw food was a very primitive life style that could go for savagery. Before then, the Ogiso dynasty has been dethroned and the family chased out while the ones caught were sacrificed to the deity . It was the exiled Ogiso family that founded the present day people of Egbema in Rivers state, Degema also in Rivers state and the rest of the Epie Attisa  Ijaw clan of today were all parts of the Ogisso family and supporters of the Ogisso .. If they were not savages how come, even till these day, The Edo kingdom has not formerly tried to have any form of relationship  with  the Ogissos in diaspora .  Civilized people would see an AFRICAN wearing no shoes and try to make him live  and stay that way by telling him he looks good  while they troop to Africa and entertain themselves  with the primitive nature of the AFRICANS. Don't  continue  to  think Europeans of those days praised  what they saw in Benin kingdom when they met the first Benin people  because it was all flattery and mockery. Europeans were clothed  and even had electricity then while the Benin people  were naked with no knowledge of fire  so imagine  that. Benin only became popular when it was raided and almost destroyed due to the resistance of the Oba to give in. That history is supposed to be erased because the event was an insult. The Oba was forcefully removed and banished  by a Europeans paddled  by Ijaw fisher men who were the  people met  at the  coast.

Originally posted by Boma Originally posted by Nick1986 Originally posted by Mountain Man In fact, Africans were not "savages" -their civilizations were quite sophisticated in many ways, but they peaked before the arrival of Europeans and presented a picture of simple people, but the ruins all over Africa say otherwise. The Great Fortress of Zimbabwe was built long before European savages even thought about building fortresses out of solid stone, and reveals a degree of sophistication not seen again until until the great stone fortresses of Europe and the Crusades. Irrigation systems in desert lands were highly sophisticated and still exist - and function - to this day. Take the ancient Egyptians, for example. They built magnificent pyramids, temples and cities while Europeans still lived in mud huts and wore animal skins Uhm !! Ancient Egyptians ? The Ancient Egyptians became cannibals  after their destruction by the ARABS. The few that survived are mostly in Nigeria today with no knowledge of their origin. What happened ? They lost every thing including the civilization their forefathers  started  and became savages .

Originally posted by Boma Africans  knew Astronomy before ARABS invaded. At least the Pyramids of Egypt and Pyramids in Sudan are still there to prove. Astronomy has always been part of Africans. In my culture At least the early ways of counting days and seasons  was  by astronomy where the sun, moon and stars were used and still used today in the interior remote places.  Arabic University in Timbuktu only taught Islam and ARAB CULTURE and what are the achievements  ? The University never even taught medicine, shelter, basic way of planting crops.. It only brain washed the people and made them forget their own way of life and waste their time praying 5 times a day to some statue far away in the EAST which many of them do not even know about. That was the worst thing to happen to AFRICA.  It made AFRICANS forget about all the HERBS they used to know for treatment of sicknesses..

It's a very questionable that Ancient Egypt was an African civilization per se, Egypt was one of the most used migration corridors since like 60 000 BC, the ethnicities there were mixed with Near Eastern, not pure African; so I wouldn't claim it as African per se.

Besides, one achievement doesn't invalidate others. You may not like the Sufies and the university of Timbuctu, but your personal opinion doesn't invalidate it's value. BTW, the Arab medicine was on a very high level, using exactly herbs etc.

And then what is your excuse for the parts of Africa that Arabs never reached? If the Arabs are to blame for North Africa, what about the other parts of Africa, who was to blame there, little green people?

IMHO, this thread isn't a constructive one. One culture has the right to call other cultrures "savage", nor anyone has the excuse to blame other cultures for his own demise.


Edited by Don Quixote - 19-Oct-2012 at 08:46

Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis Originally posted by Boma Originally posted by Nick1986 Originally posted by Mountain Man In fact, Africans were not "savages" -their civilizations were quite sophisticated in many ways, but they peaked before the arrival of Europeans and presented a picture of simple people, but the ruins all over Africa say otherwise. The Great Fortress of Zimbabwe was built long before European savages even thought about building fortresses out of solid stone, and reveals a degree of sophistication not seen again until until the great stone fortresses of Europe and the Crusades. Irrigation systems in desert lands were highly sophisticated and still exist - and function - to this day. Take the ancient Egyptians, for example. They built magnificent pyramids, temples and cities while Europeans still lived in mud huts and wore animal skins Uhm !! Ancient Egyptians ? The Ancient Egyptians became cannibals  after their destruction by the ARABS. The few that survived are mostly in Nigeria today with no knowledge of their origin. What happened ? They lost every thing including the civilization their forefathers  started  and became savages .     Sources on that?

Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis Originally posted by Ekundayo Wow. All I can say is it seems someone's been smoking crack or something. I think I'll abandon this thread for good, maybe another thread won't be hijacked to rewrite history.     I can appreciate your countering viewpoints. And your reluctance and your frustration. But what is not necessary is the inference you make which is rudeness personified even in jest. We do not need that particular verbiage. As to whether you continue on the thread or not is your prerogative. As to hijacking...if you feel that's been done... then notify a Mod or the Admin-owner...PM...as per the CoC... they, not you, will make that determination.   As we do not need rudeness... we also do not need confrontational speech...innuendo or unsubstantiated sarcasm.....which are also a CoC violations.   I appreciate your passion in the subject and your determination in objective presentation. I am also satisfied you are capable of doing it without that noted above. I encourage you to continue with that understanding.     CV Moderator

Inference? Just what was this *inference*? Innuendo? Well maybe it would have been better to say *someone has been hitting the nitrous*, *someone's getting too big for his britches*, *someone's sat down to dinner and not brought their fork*?? Yup. I'm just not suited to exchanging with people who refuse to post from or acknowledge academic sources. How about a ban on shouting in caps? That might clean things up a bit. Just way too serious in here and not fun. I'm out.

Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis Originally posted by Boma Originally posted by Nick1986 Originally posted by Mountain Man In fact, Africans were not "savages" -their civilizations were quite sophisticated in many ways, but they peaked before the arrival of Europeans and presented a picture of simple people, but the ruins all over Africa say otherwise. The Great Fortress of Zimbabwe was built long before European savages even thought about building fortresses out of solid stone, and reveals a degree of sophistication not seen again until until the great stone fortresses of Europe and the Crusades. Irrigation systems in desert lands were highly sophisticated and still exist - and function - to this day. Take the ancient Egyptians, for example. They built magnificent pyramids, temples and cities while Europeans still lived in mud huts and wore animal skins Uhm !! Ancient Egyptians ? The Ancient Egyptians became cannibals  after their destruction by the ARABS. The few that survived are mostly in Nigeria today with no knowledge of their origin. What happened ? They lost every thing including the civilization their forefathers  started  and became savages .     Sources on that?     http://destee.com/index.php?threads/a-spiritual-discourse-of-the-ijaw-of-nigeria.44218/     This is a source dealing with mythology and spiritual practices and beliefs of the Ijo. And while interesting in and of itself. Not credible enough to sustain the statement I id' above.     Where are your academic sources based on Egyptology, Semitic Archaeology, Anthropology, Philology and Etymology? Who are your subject matter experts that can substantiate your statement? What noted historian subscribes to that generic identification of Ancient Egyptian survivors as cannibals versus the more commonly recognized view of cultural assimilation?     Without these to analyze.....your's appears only to be subjective revisonism.

This is one hidden fact out there the entire world is deprived of and it is being dogged out. Soon interest groups would go in to that proper and get all the anthropology, Etymology and things for the entire world to know.  Thank God for the internet and different Fora  where issues  are discussed and most of all Thank God for  All  empires  Forum where hidden  facts  are being revealed for people to know.  You are also free to make your own research on the matter.

I think some folks need to step back, take a few deep breaths, and do some basic reading.  Absurdity is running wild here.

Racist is racist, it goes in any direction.