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were central asians caucasians??

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  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: were central asians caucasians??
    Posted: 17-Sep-2010 at 12:48
If you look at central asian countries today, countries like Uzbekistan, Kazakhistan, Turkemnistan, and even Tajikistan and parts of Afghanistan, you find that most of the population is oriental/mongol looking. Did the population change its appreance because of the mongol invasion and rule? were central asians more caucasian looking before the mongol army devestaed this area with rapes and loots, i am assuming the mongol soldiers probably made a lot of women pregnant during that time and killed most of the natives or was central asia mongol looking even before that?? does anyone have history behind this?
 
I am always surprised how parts of northern iran, northern afghanistan and northern pakistan still have caucasian looking people like (kalash, Nuristanis) but yet countries to the more north like these central asian states which are closer to Russia have oriental/mongol looking people.


Edited by balochii - 17-Sep-2010 at 12:49
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  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2010 at 15:31
I think that Central Asia was largely Caucasoid prior to the Mongols.  
 
Caucasian mummies (with red hair even) have been found in western China. Huns included both Caucasian and Asiatic sub-tribes and the Scythians were Caucasian as well. Even today, Uzbeks have Caucasoid features and the Turkmen are largely Caucasoid.
  


Edited by Cryptic - 17-Sep-2010 at 15:33
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  Quote Kanas_Krumesis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2010 at 17:35
We know from Herodotus about Scythians: "...for their part, being a large and numerous nation, is all mightily blue-eyed and ruddy." Histories (iv.21, 108, 109). It is easy to recognaze the hair color and face type of this Scythian mummy, found in Altai mountain, Central Asia.
 
 
 
The area of Central Asia had been devastated long before arrival of the Mongol army, in VІ-VІІ century by Turkic trubes (like Kirghiz, Karakalpaks, Uighurs and others ) which were also Mongoloids. Arabian diplomat and traveller Ibn Fadlan from 10th century wrote that Turkish tribes in Central Asia seriously embarrass trade between Volga Bulgaria and Caliphate of Baghdad with endless attacks over caravans. They were violent and extremely cruel.
 
Pieces of older Caucasian population of Central Asia remain only in isolated mountian areas. Like Pamir in Tadjikistan (on the photographs below), Kafiristan in Afghanistan, Kalasha valley in Hindu Kush...
 
 
 
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  Quote RollingWave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Sep-2010 at 00:06
Originally posted by balochii

If you look at central asian countries today, countries like Uzbekistan, Kazakhistan, Turkemnistan, and even Tajikistan and parts of Afghanistan, you find that most of the population is oriental/mongol looking. Did the population change its appreance because of the mongol invasion and rule? were central asians more caucasian looking before the mongol army devestaed this area with rapes and loots, i am assuming the mongol soldiers probably made a lot of women pregnant during that time and killed most of the natives or was central asia mongol looking even before that?? does anyone have history behind this?
 
I am always surprised how parts of northern iran, northern afghanistan and northern pakistan still have caucasian looking people like (kalash, Nuristanis) but yet countries to the more north like these central asian states which are closer to Russia have oriental/mongol looking people.
 
Really? lets just look at their sitting leaders.
 
Afganistan
definately caucasian
 
Uzbekistan
100% caucasian
 
Kazakhistan
 
mixed features
 
 Turkemnistan,
 
 
mixed, with some pretty pronounced arabic features.
 
 
 
Tajikistan
 
 
mostly caucasian
 
obviously leaders don't completely reflect population, but generally they're a decent representation.
 
 
Only the President of Kyrgyzstan have very obvious oriental features


Edited by RollingWave - 20-Sep-2010 at 00:09
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  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Sep-2010 at 14:14
Central Asia was Caucasoid prior to the encroachment of the Mongols and Turkic tribes. Central Asia was inhabited by Iranics for centuries but they were pushed out as nomadic tribes expanded Westward from Siberia and Mongol. With that said, many of the invaded Turkic and Mongolian tribes did intermarry with Central Asians, so today you see both a mix of Caucasoid and Mongoloid Central Asians (and some Slav?).



Edited by TheGreatSimba - 22-Sep-2010 at 14:16
I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time.
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  Quote bai_ulgen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Oct-2010 at 14:23

If by Central Asian (specially when you add "prior to Turks & Mongols"), you mean Iranic and other Indo-European people, then yes, they were Caucasians. But if you mean Turks & Mongols, they were mostly Asiatic looking.  

By the way, majority of Turkmens in Iran and Afghanistan are Asiatic. 



Edited by bai_ulgen - 22-Oct-2010 at 14:26
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  Quote PakistaniShield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2010 at 16:16
I was going to start a topic on the Caucasians in central Asia as I plan on writing an article on it soon. But i need more details.

I believe Central Asia was also inhabited by  proto-Caucasian as well as IE peoples prior to various Turanian migrations.

I believe the Hunza of Pakistan are possibly a result of pre-historic Caucasian migrations and connected to pre-IE Balkan races, but genetic evidence contradicts this and not enough evidence exists to link the Hunza language burushaski to Caucasian languages.

All those people in the pictures above are Mongoloid/oriental looking except for Karzai.

And yes many populations in Central Asia show IE influence. I once saw a Turkmen lady with Mongol & Caucasian features.

Even the Uyghurs in China and certain pockets of Mongol tribes have light hair/eyes. 
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  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Oct-2010 at 10:36
Originally posted by PakistaniShield

I believe Central Asia was also inhabited by  proto-Caucasian as well as IE peoples prior to various Turanian migrations.
I agree, except for more isolated Kirghizistan.  The indigenous people there might have been asiatic people from western Siberia.  As a side note, the Kyrghz were the last large group to convert fully to Islam from Shamanism.  This might indicate cultural ties with Siberia.


Edited by Cryptic - 28-Oct-2010 at 10:49
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  Quote bai_ulgen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Oct-2010 at 10:46

Except President Karzay and President Rakhmanov, the rest have typical Central Asian looks: they are primarily Asiatic with some Caucaid features.


To see more, here's a photo album about Turkmens. In every single photo, you will see both Asiatic Turkmens as well as Caucaid Turkmens, because Central Asians are mixed people. 

Right click and "Open Image" in Opera to see in full size.



Edited by bai_ulgen - 28-Oct-2010 at 11:04
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  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Oct-2010 at 10:57
Originally posted by bai_ulgen

Except President Karzay and President Rakhmanov, the rest have typical Central Asian looks: they are primarily Asiatic with some Caucaid features.


To see more, here's a photo album about Turkmens. In every single photo, you will see both Asiatic Turkmens as well as Caucaid Turkmens, because Central Asians are mixed people. 

They are mixed today, but the original inhabitants seem to have been caucasoids (with the possible exception of Kyrghzistan.


Edited by Cryptic - 28-Oct-2010 at 11:00
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  Quote bai_ulgen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Oct-2010 at 10:59

It depends on who you mean by "original inhabitants". If you mean prior to Turks & Mongols, then yes. Old inhabitants of Central Asia were Caucaid. But these original inhabitants were not Turkmens, Kazakhs, ... . 


Turkic people were originally Asiatic. 



Edited by bai_ulgen - 28-Oct-2010 at 11:00
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  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Oct-2010 at 13:32
What Caucasoid features exist amongst Turkic peoples in Central Asia are due to mixing with Iranic peoples who inhabited the area before the arrival of the Turkic tribes and to a lesser extent Eastern European peoples due to Russian conquests.
I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time.
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  Quote bai_ulgen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Oct-2010 at 13:37
Yes. 
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  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Oct-2010 at 13:43
Which country are you from? What are your features if you dont mind me asking?
I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time.
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  Quote bai_ulgen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Oct-2010 at 13:48
I'm not sure if I understood you well. Features? 
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  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Oct-2010 at 14:16
Originally posted by bai_ulgen

I'm not sure if I understood you well. Features? 

I

I assume you're Turkic because of your signature (I could be wrong) and I was wondering that if you yourself were from central asia and whether you were caucasoid, asiatic, or a mix.
I use CAPS for emphasis, not yelling. Just don't want to have to click the bold button every time.
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Oct-2010 at 14:30
TGS, just what are your "features?", if we might ask?

I look amazingly like Paul Newman!
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  Quote bai_ulgen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Oct-2010 at 14:30

No, it's OK. I'm a Turkmen, with mixed features. Friends say I'm somehow like this man (at the end of the post, in the video)



Edited by bai_ulgen - 28-Oct-2010 at 14:51
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  Quote TheGreatSimba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Oct-2010 at 14:43
What is the perception of Turks from Turkey? And do you know what the perception of Turks from Turkey is of Central Asian Turks?

I'm caucasian. Been mistake for Latino and Italian, although I'm Iranian.


Edited by TheGreatSimba - 28-Oct-2010 at 14:44
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  Quote bai_ulgen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Oct-2010 at 14:51

Oh, then "Salam, haletun chetore?" :)


Well I haven't lived in Turkey, so I can't comment on that. But I can tell you about my own experience, having encountered with lots of Turks in Central Asia: there's a big cultural difference between us. Most of Turkish people working or studying in Central Asia have a hard time socializing with native people.  



Edited by bai_ulgen - 28-Oct-2010 at 15:06
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