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The most oppressed nation in the Middle East |
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Maximus Germanicus 
Pretorian 
Suspended Joined: 08-May-2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 171 |
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 Topic: The most oppressed nation in the Middle EastPosted: 02-Jun-2010 at 01:07 |
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However, If Turkey sends warships and the IDF attacks them, then what--That is an attack on NATO then NATO would be compelled to act--I hope Israel isn't that dumb
While I support Israel in general they make some bonehead PR moves
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Maximus Germanicus
Pretorian
Suspended Joined: 08-May-2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 171 |
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Posted: 02-Jun-2010 at 01:02 |
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This why the Turks have are drifting over the capitulation of Syria in the late 90's and other changes in the ME it is all RealPolitik and nothing else
Since the October 1998 Turkish threat to
use force against Syria,12 Damascus has complied with Turkish demands to stop support for the Kurdish insurgency and to cease demands for the Alexandretta province. Similarly, Cyprus was “convinced” not to station S-300 surface-to-air missile systems on its soil, which could have hampered the freedom of action of the Turkish air force. Furthermore, Saddam Hussein’s Iraq was eliminated as a threat by the 2003 American conquest, leading to a drastically less threatening regional environment. In such a situation, Turkey’s reliance on Israel and the West decreases. “Turkey Cancels Air Force Drill Because of Israeli Participation,” Hürriyet Daily News, 11 October 2009.
“Tension Continues between Turkey and Syria,” Arabic News, 31 October 1998. Amanda Akçakoca, “Turkey: An Energy Bridge for Europe,” Today’s Zaman, 11 April 2007. Turkey is drifting East as it were in order to Show the EU they better play ball or else
Avi Mizrachi, “Navy to partake in Turkish exercise,” Jerusalem Post, 12 August 2009. European Parliament, “EU-Turkey,” 20 October 2009, http://www.europarl.europa.eu/eplive/expert/ shotlistpage/20091019SHL62757/default_en.htm. “Fears Grow of Sarkozy Initiative to Downgrade Turkey’s EU Bid,” Financial Times, 15 October 2009; Şaban Kardaş, “Merkel and Sarkozy Call for Privileged Partnership Angers Turkey,” The Jamestown Foundation, 13 May 2009, Eurasia Daily Monitor, Volume 6, Issue 92. Central and Eastern European Watch, “Turkey’s EU Membership and the Public Opinion,” http://www.despiteborders. com/clanky/data/upimages/petkova_turkey_eu_public_opionion.pdf; EurActiv, “EU-Turkey Relations,” http://www.euractiv. com/en/enlargement/eu-turkey-relations/article-129678. Edited by Maximus Germanicus - 02-Jun-2010 at 01:03 |
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Shield-of-Dardania
Consul 
Suspended Joined: 23-Mar-2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 357 |
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Posted: 02-Jun-2010 at 00:58 |
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What wisdom? Apart from your Washington-manufactured crap, you don't have any. Absolute zilch.
You're out of touch again. As usual. Haven't you heard, Mr. Reccip Tayyip Erdogan and his friend Abdullah Gul has already taken the military and other vital state apparatus - all formerly controlled by secular Janissary's descendants - under their authority.
The army, navy and air force is now under complete civilian control. They all have to answer and report to Erdogan as Head of Government. While Gul as Head of State is Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces. No more army-led coup d'etat for Turkey. Edited by Shield-of-Dardania - 02-Jun-2010 at 01:05 |
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History makes everything. Everything is history in the making.
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Maximus Germanicus
Pretorian
Suspended Joined: 08-May-2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 171 |
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Posted: 02-Jun-2010 at 00:52 |
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The Problem you have is that the Turks don't like the Arabs--It wasn't that long ago that the word for Arab and Dog and Arab and traitor were interchangeable in Turkish The other problem you have is when it all boils down to it the Military still runs turkey, they are secular and wouldn't pull a hair for their Moslem brothers unless it benefits Turkey. By the way SoD let me give you some wisdom, as a professor once told me --Think--Nobody cares what you think only what you know, where you learned it and what are the citations (are they from credible sources)--So from now on unless you can cite your sources your arguments are baseless. Well they are silly anyway just like you-- |
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Shield-of-Dardania
Consul
Suspended Joined: 23-Mar-2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 357 |
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Posted: 02-Jun-2010 at 00:47 |
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courtesy of Nurica: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/10208027.stm Eyewitness accounts from ships raided by Israeli commandos have cast doubt on Israel's version of events that led to the deaths of at least nine people. German activist Norman Paech said he had only seen wooden sticks being brandished as troops abseiled on to the deck of the ship. "There were no knives, no axes and no pistols."
Israel says its soldiers were attacked with "knives, clubs and other weapons" and "opened fire in self-defence" (the usual Israeli BS). The raid led to widespread condemnation and the UN has called for an inquiry. US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said on Tuesday that Washington would support an Israeli investigation of the raid, but said it must be "prompt, impartial, credible and transparent", as called for by the UN. The six ships, carrying aid and campaigners, had sailed from Cyprus in a bid to break Israel's blockade of the Gaza Strip. Israel seized more than 670 people with the ships and deported 50 on Tuesday. The Israeli cabinet later announced that all those still being held would be deported within 48 hours. Speaking as he arrived back in Berlin wrapped in a blue blanket, Mr Paech, a member of a German opposition party, said Israel's operation "was not an act of self-defence". "Personally I saw two-and-a-half wooden batons that were used... There was really nothing else. We never saw any knives. This was an attack in international waters on a peaceful mission ... This was a clear act of piracy." Mr. Paech had been a passenger on the Turkish passenger ship Mavi Marmara where most, if not all, of the deaths occurred. Fellow German activist Inge Hoeger said they had been on the ships 'for peaceful purposes'. "We wanted to transport aid to Gaza," she said. "No-one had a weapon." She added: "We were aware that this would not be a simple cruise across the sea to deliver the goods to Gaza. But we did not count on this kind of brutality." Activist Bayram Kalyon, arriving back in Istanbul, had also been a passenger on the Mavi Marmara. "The captain... told us 'They are firing randomly, they are breaking the windows and entering inside. So you should get out of here as soon as possible'. That was our last conversation with him." Meanwhile, in Nazareth, Israeli Arab MP Haneen Zuabi - who was on the flotilla - told a press conference that Israeli forces began firing while still in the helicopters hovering over the ships. "We are calling for an international committee to investigate this tragedy," she said. Diplomatic sources in Ankara have said at least four of those killed were Turkish. Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said the assault was a "bloody massacre" and must be punished. He said Israel should not test Turkey's patience. Further criticism of Israel came from UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon on Tuesday. In an interview with the AFP news agency, he said Israel's blockade of Gaza was responsible for the deadly raid. "Had Israelis heeded to my call and to the call of the international community by lifting the blockade of Gaza, this tragic incident would not have happened," he said. Nato Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen called on Israel to release people and boats it had seized. He spoke after an emergency meeting of Nato ambassadors in Brussels called by Turkey. Gaza violence. The UN Security Council issued its statement after deliberating through Monday night. It said an investigation should be "prompt, impartial, credible and transparent". It also condemned the "acts" which led to the deaths. Edited by Shield-of-Dardania - 02-Jun-2010 at 00:54 |
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History makes everything. Everything is history in the making.
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Shield-of-Dardania
Consul
Suspended Joined: 23-Mar-2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 357 |
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Posted: 02-Jun-2010 at 00:27 |
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You are a trained soldier, armed to the teeth. You rough someone up, verbally, psychologically and physically. Provoke him to the very edge of his patience. Eventually, he lashes out. Then you shoot him at your leisure and plead self-defence. His friends jump to his aid, you do the same. It's easy.
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History makes everything. Everything is history in the making.
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Nurica
Knight 
Joined: 26-May-2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 56 |
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Posted: 02-Jun-2010 at 00:02 |
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<<If you're going to attack the military while doing their job dont be surprised when you get shot in the face>>
Wooow! take that as link from bbc site, it function better than your dead links...
Witnesses cast doubt on Israel's convoy raid account
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/10208027.stm Eyewitness accounts from ships raided by Israeli commandos have cast doubt on Israel's version of events that led to the deaths of at least nine people.
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Shield-of-Dardania
Consul
Suspended Joined: 23-Mar-2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 357 |
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Posted: 01-Jun-2010 at 19:58 |
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100531/ap_on_an/ml_israel_fallout_analysis By KARIN LAUB and MATTHEW LEE, Associated Press Writers Karin Laub And Matthew Lee, Associated Press Writers – Mon May 31, 4:17 pm ET JERUSALEM – Israel's bloody, bungled takeover of a Gaza-bound Turkish aid vessel is complicating U.S.-led Mideast peace efforts, deepening Israel's international isolation and threatening to destroy the Jewish state's ties with key regional ally Turkey.
And while Israel had hoped to defend its tight blockade of Hamas-ruled Gaza with Monday's high-seas raid, it instead appeared to be hastening the embargo's demise, judging by initial international condemnation.
The pre-dawn commando operation, which killed nine activists, was also sure to strengthen Gaza's Islamic militant Hamas rulers at the expense of U.S. allies in the region, key among them Hamas' main rival, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, as well as Egypt and Jordan.
"The attack on a humanitarian mission ... will only further alienate the international community and isolate Israel while granting added legitimacy to Hamas' claim to represent the plight of the Palestinian people," said Scott Atran, an analyst at the University of Michigan.
The Mediterranean bloodshed dealt another blow to the Obama administration's efforts to get peace talks back on track. It raised new questions about one of the pillars of U.S. policy — that Hamas can be left unattended as Washington tries to broker a peace deal between Abbas and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
The raid tested U.S.-Israeli ties that have not yet fully recovered from their most serious dispute in decades, triggered by Israeli construction plans in disputed east Jerusalem.
In the most immediate fallout, the interception of the six-boat flotilla carrying 10,000 tons of supplies for Gaza trained the global spotlight on the blockade of the territory. Israel and Egypt sealed Gaza's borders after Hamas overran the territory in 2007, wresting control from Abbas-loyal forces.
The blockade, under which Israel allows in only essential humanitarian supplies, was intended to squeeze the militants. Instead, it has failed to dislodge Hamas, driven ordinary Gazans deeper into poverty and emerged as a constant source of friction and instability. In trying to shake off the blockade, Hamas intensified rocket fire on Israeli border towns, provoking Israel's three-week military offensive against Gaza 16 months ago.
After the Gaza war, the international community remained reluctant to push hard for an end to the blockade, for fear it could prolong the rule of Hamas, branded a terrorist organization by the West.
But after Monday's deadly clash, Israel may find itself under growing pressure to at least ease the blockade significantly. European diplomats on Monday demanded a swift end to the border closure, while U.S. officials said statements would call for greater assistance to the people of Gaza. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity due to the sensitivity of the situation. The fate of U.S.-led indirect talks between Israel and the Palestinians was uncertain. Netanyahu canceled a scheduled Tuesday meeting with President Barack Obama in Washington, and the status of a planned visit to Washington by Abbas next week was not immediately clear. The Palestinian leader on Monday denounced Israel's actions as a "sinful massacre" and met with aides to decide on his next move. Israel dismissed the condemnation, saying its forces came under attack when they tried to board one of the Turkish-flagged aid vessels (activists attacking hard-core commandos? Hmmm. "Militarily, we can feel quite safe, but not regarding our political international standing," said Alon Liel, a former Israeli diplomat posted in Turkey. Israel also appears close to destroying its relationship with key strategic ally Turkey. Turkey decided to scrap three military drills involving Israel and withdrawal of its ambassador. Turkey, NATO's sole Muslim member, established close military relations with Israel in 1996 under U.S. pressure. Today, the Islamic-rooted government's sensitivities about the plight of Muslims anywhere and aspirations to have a say in the Middle East and Europe are reshaping Turkish foreign policy. ___ Lee reported from Washington. Associated Press writers Mohammed Daraghmeh in Ramallah, West Bank, and Selcan Hacaoglu in Ankara, Turkey, contributed to this report. |
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History makes everything. Everything is history in the making.
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Shield-of-Dardania
Consul
Suspended Joined: 23-Mar-2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 357 |
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Posted: 01-Jun-2010 at 19:49 |
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No. They had zilch right to do it. The flotilla was not in Israeli waters. It was in international waters. If Turkey decides to take any measures, even the most extremely robust measures, against Israel in relation to this atrocious debacle, Turkey is then fully justified. Edited by Shield-of-Dardania - 01-Jun-2010 at 20:00 |
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History makes everything. Everything is history in the making.
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Maximus Germanicus
Pretorian
Suspended Joined: 08-May-2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 171 |
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Posted: 01-Jun-2010 at 11:29 |
I agree 100% They needed to be smarter on how they handled it. They are winning the battles but losing the war. The wars now a days are won or lost on public opinion
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DreamWeaver
Colonel 
Suspended Joined: 02-May-2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 555 |
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Posted: 01-Jun-2010 at 10:23 |
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If you're going to attack the military while doing their job dont be surprised when you get shot in the face.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/10206351.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/10195997.stm Anyhow there is a speific thread for the Israeli raid in a different forum thread. Edited by DreamWeaver - 01-Jun-2010 at 10:41 |
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Nurica
Knight
Joined: 26-May-2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 56 |
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Posted: 01-Jun-2010 at 08:59 |
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Oh yeah, how to dispute "the right" to perpetrate night-time killings in international water?
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DreamWeaver
Colonel
Suspended Joined: 02-May-2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 555 |
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Posted: 01-Jun-2010 at 06:02 |
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Overkill by Israel, operation messed up, but I dont dispute their right to do it.
(Insert appropriate falmming below) Edited by DreamWeaver - 01-Jun-2010 at 06:02 |
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Shield-of-Dardania
Consul
Suspended Joined: 23-Mar-2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 357 |
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Posted: 31-May-2010 at 20:23 |
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Israeli commandos stormed a flotilla bringing humanitarian aid to Gaza, killing at least 10 activists and prompting worldwide condemnation Monday.
Usual Israeli BS: Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak said the organizers of the flotilla were responsible after 10 activists were killed when Israel Navy commandos stormed the ship overnight, Haaretz reported.
Media accounts offered conflicting numbers of the reported dead, with some reporting as many as 20 activists killed when Israeli commandos stormed the flotilla, Haaretz said. However, several Israeli and international media outlets reported 10 activists died. The wounded, estimated to be about 50, were taken to Israeli hospitals and the ships were being escorted to Israel's Ashdod port, where the passengers and aid supplies would be unloaded and screened. At least four Israeli forces were injured, Israeli officials said (injured by catapults, perhaps). Turkey's Foreign Affairs Ministry said Israeli troops "used force against civilians ... who wished to take humanitarian aid to Gazan people," Anadulo Ajansi reported. "We harshly condemn such an inhuman treatment by Israel," the ministry said, adding, Israel's actions "may lead to irredeemable consequences in our bilateral relationships. Officials said Israel's ambassador to Turkey has been called to the ministry in Ankara to explain, CNN said. France and Greece also called on Israeli ambassadors for an explanation. White House spokesman Bill Burton said the United States "deeply regrets the loss of life and injuries sustained and is currently working to understand the circumstances surrounding this tragedy." (Wow, what a strong reaction indeed.) The European Union and the United Nations also condemned the raid, The Washington Post reported. The EU called for an inquiry into the deaths. Palestinian Prime Minister Salam Fayyad said there was no excuse for an attack "by armed forces on a humanitarian convoy," CNN said. Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas declared three days of mourning. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu reportedly canceled his trip to the United States Tuesday because of the incident, CNN reported. In Jerusalem, Israel Defense Forces Chief of Staff Gabi Ashkenazi said the soldiers were forced to respond with live rounds when they were met by violent activists (Wow!), Haaretz said. Israel's National Security Council Counter-Terrorism Bureau issued a travel warning to Israelis in Turkey, The Jerusalem Post reported. Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister Daniel Ayalon said at least two guns were found aboard the ships and used to fire at troops, of whom four were injured. (Only 2 guns, aye?) One organizer denied to The New York Times that Israeli military personnel were greeted with weapons fire. The most opressed nation in West Asia/the world. Of course. Oh yeah.
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History makes everything. Everything is history in the making.
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Nurica
Knight
Joined: 26-May-2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 56 |
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Posted: 31-May-2010 at 15:50 |
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Always there was a certain number of jews that changed their values, even abandoned their religion... fortunetaly!
In fact, that was exactly what did make millions of middle easterners that converted to islam from different sects of christianism. So we have to ask ourseleves if it is really a virtue to keep no matter the risks to your values, or in fact the poison, the real poison is exactly this fanaticism of some jews (and other nationalists or religious fanatics of other nations) that are to blame for the megatonne of blood that stained the human history.
My question is: virtue or madness, to sacrifice your life in order to "save" (???) your values.
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Cyrus Shahmiri
Administrator 
King of Kings Joined: 07-Aug-2004 Location: Iran Online Status: Offline Posts: 6240 |
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Posted: 31-May-2010 at 04:46 |
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You can't compare Palestinian Arabs to Kurds and Assyrians, the fact is that some Turks from Turkistan and Arabs from Arabia have captured the lands of Kurds, Assyrians and Jews, the oppressed nations just want to live in their ancestral lands but the oppressors want to "wipe them off the map". Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 31-May-2010 at 04:47 |
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Shield-of-Dardania
Consul
Suspended Joined: 23-Mar-2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 357 |
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Posted: 31-May-2010 at 03:00 |
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How about we create a new land space for exiled Palestinians, Kurds and Assyrians? Sort of a tri-national state. We set up, for starters, as a sort of temporary nursery state for them, some area of multi-bordered land between Syria, Iraq, Iran and Turkey.
When the nursery state is stable and up-and-running, we move the people to a permanent settlement in a donor country. One with land space to spare in abundance, of course. America could be a likely candidate.
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History makes everything. Everything is history in the making.
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Shield-of-Dardania
Consul
Suspended Joined: 23-Mar-2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 357 |
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Posted: 31-May-2010 at 02:46 |
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Jews. The most oppressed people. With 800 nukes. Yes. Of course. And they need them nukes to stay oppressed, don't they?
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History makes everything. Everything is history in the making.
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ideas
Knight
Joined: 02-Feb-2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 76 |
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Posted: 30-May-2010 at 15:01 |
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Maybe the question should be a bit more clear, I mean do you mean, who is still opressed or who was opressed?
The answer to the first one is obviouslt jews, though the second one is kurds, as jews and armenians both have a country, so I dont see how they opressed? |
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Shield-of-Dardania
Consul
Suspended Joined: 23-Mar-2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 357 |
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Posted: 28-May-2010 at 12:34 |
Right on. Again, you can say that again.
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History makes everything. Everything is history in the making.
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