If you want a country that epitomises oppression.

Baluchis are part of middle east? anyways yeah we are oppressed by everyone.

 

 

 

Well said, today I read an interesting article about it: http://www.dailynewstranscript.com/opinion/columnists/x550154325/May-In-Kurdistan-empathy-for-Israel-and-Jews - May: In Kurdistan, empathy for Israel and Jews

 

HALABJA, Iraq - Twenty-two years ago, in this dusty town hard up against the mountainous border with Iran, Saddam Hussein's military used chemical weapons to murder 5,000 Kurdish men, women and children.

 

...

 

The goal of Operation Anfal was genocide. At least 150,000 Kurds were slaughtered, many having first been herded into concentration camps where mass executions were conducted. More than a million Kurds were driven from their homes.

 

...

 

The result of this experience: Kurds see Americans as allies and also have empathy for Israelis and Jews. It makes sense when you think about it: Like Kurds, Jews are an ancient Middle Eastern people. Like Kurds, Jews have been targeted for genocide. Like Kurds, Israelis face an uncertain future among neighbors who range from merely hostile to openly exterminationist.

Does it mean that you don't know a large number of Baluchis live in Iran (about 1.5 million), Oman (about 0.5 million) and some other countries in the Middle East from the ancient times? and Baluchi is a Northwestern Iranian language? As you read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baloch_people - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baloch_people  Daptar Shaar ("Chronicle of Genealogies") suggests that the Baloch were Shia Muslims, who migrated from Halab (modern-day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleppo - Aleppo ), Syria, to Bampur in Seistan, Iran, and subsequently to Makran and other parts of Pakistani Balochistan.

 

I don't agree, those nations were oppressed that they wanted to preserve their own culture and religion, for example however we Iranians have preserved most of our culture and traditions but it is a fact that we have changed our religions easily, you know that before Safavid times, the majority of Iranians were Sunni but they are already Shia, some other peoples in the Middle east have changed their almost all things, like those who were Babylonians, Elamites, Phoenicians and etc and some other ones have just preserved their names, like Syrians and Egyptians, I think Jews are really an exception.

 

What is the ratio of Persian Zoroastrians to Persian Muslims? The fact is that the majority of Persian Zoroastrians didn't preserve their religion and just a small number of them who lived in some isolated lands, like in the deserts around Yazd, could do it.

It is said Shah Ismail gathered a large number of Sunni clerics in Tabriz and ordered them to insult Abu Bakr, Umar and other Sunni holy figures in public, one of them abstained and was immediately beheaded, and then all other ones did what the king had ordered. For this simple reason, the majority of Iranians became Shia Muslims.

But we know several times in the history, Jews were killed, exiled, or taken as slaves and the majority of them never changed their values, for example we know after the famous battle of the trench (Khandaq), the Prophet said this people never change their relgion, so he ordered to behead all the men of Banu Qurayza Jewish tribe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_the_Banu_Qurayza - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_the_Banu_Qurayza

 

Would you please tell us what the most oppressed nation in the Middle East is in your opinion? According which source you say "Every ethnicity listed has suffered just as much as the others through the course of history"? Most of these nations have lived in their own lands for long times with almsot no problem, but Jews have never lived comfortably anywhere in the Middle East from at least 2800 years ago, maybe just some of them have had a better situation in the recent times (second half of 20th century) and in the Ilkhanid Mongol period (first half of 14th century).

You can say that again. So successful that they convinced the WWII winners to take another nation's land and hand it to them. 

It is clear that you don't want to answer my question and just want to show your disagreement with my opinion by generalization, not by historical evidences. Did I say there is just a single oppressed nation in the Middle East?! We are talking about the most oppressed one. According to which source you say Elamites, Hittites, Babylonians and other peoples who easily changed their identity after foreign conquests were completely wiped out by oppression?!

Right on. Again, you can say that again. 

 

When the nursery state is stable and up-and-running, we move the people to a permanent settlement in a donor country. One with land space to spare in abundance, of course. America could be a likely candidate.

You can't compare Palestinian Arabs to Kurds and Assyrians, the fact is that some Turks from Turkistan and Arabs from Arabia have captured the lands of Kurds, Assyrians and Jews, the oppressed nations just want to live in their ancestral lands but the oppressors want to "wipe them off the map".

Always there was a certain number of jews that changed their values, even abandoned their religion... fortunetaly!

In fact, that was exactly what did make millions of middle easterners that converted to islam from different sects of christianism. So we have to ask ourseleves if it is really a virtue to keep no matter the risks to your values, or in fact the poison, the real poison is exactly this fanaticism of some jews (and other nationalists or religious fanatics of other nations) that are to blame for the megatonne of blood that stained the human history.

My question is: virtue or madness, to sacrifice your life in order to "save" (???) your values.   

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/yb/145613271 - http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/yb/145613271 - http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/yb/145613271

 

Israeli commandos stormed a flotilla bringing humanitarian aid to Gaza, killing at least 10 activists and prompting worldwide condemnation Monday.

 

Usual Israeli BS: Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak said the organizers of the flotilla were responsible after 10 activists were killed when Israel Navy commandos stormed the ship overnight, Haaretz reported.

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/yb/145613271 - http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/yb/145613271

 

The most opressed nation in West Asia/the world. Of course. Oh yeah.

 

 

 

 

 

(Insert appropriate falmming below)

 

I agree 100% They needed to be smarter on how they handled it. They are winning the battles but losing the war. The wars now a days are won or lost on public opinion

 

Wooow! take that as link from bbc site, it function better than your dead links...

 

Witnesses cast doubt on Israel's convoy raid account
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/10208027.stm - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/10208027.stm

Eyewitness accounts from ships raided by Israeli commandos have cast doubt on Israel's version of events that led to the deaths of at least nine people.

 

It's easy.

Eyewitness accounts from ships raided by Israeli commandos have cast doubt on Israel's version of events that led to the deaths of at least nine people. German activist Norman Paech said he had only seen wooden sticks being brandished as troops abseiled on to the deck of the ship. "There were no knives, no axes and no pistols."

The Problem you have is that the Turks don't like the Arabs--It wasn't that long ago that the word for Arab and Dog and Arab and traitor were interchangeable in Turkish

 

The other problem you have is when it all boils down to it the Military still runs turkey, they are secular and wouldn't pull a hair for their Moslem brothers unless it benefits Turkey.

 

By  the way SoD let me give you some wisdom, as a professor once told me --Think--Nobody cares what you think only what you know, where you learned it and what are the citations (are they from credible sources)--So from now on unless you can cite your sources your arguments are baseless. Well they are silly anyway just like you--

 

 

You're out of touch again. As usual. Haven't you heard, Mr. Reccip Tayyip Erdogan and his friend Abdullah Gul has already taken the military and other vital state apparatus - all formerly controlled by secular Janissary's descendants - under their authority.

 

The army, navy and air force is now under complete civilian control. They all  have to answer and report to Erdogan as Head of Government. While Gul as Head of State is Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces. No more army-led coup d'etat for Turkey.

 

Since the October 1998 Turkish threat to
use force against Syria,12 Damascus has complied with Turkish demands to stop
support for the Kurdish insurgency and to cease demands for the Alexandretta
province. Similarly, Cyprus was “convinced” not to station S-300 surface-to-air
missile systems on its soil, which could have hampered the freedom of action of
the Turkish air force. Furthermore, Saddam Hussein’s Iraq was eliminated as a
threat by the 2003 American conquest, leading to a drastically less threatening
regional environment. In such a situation, Turkey’s reliance on Israel and the
West decreases.

 

“Turkey Cancels Air Force Drill Because of Israeli Participation,” Hürriyet Daily News, 11 October 2009.
 “Tension Continues between Turkey and Syria,” Arabic News, 31 October 1998.
 Amanda Akçakoca, “Turkey: An Energy Bridge for Europe,” Today’s Zaman, 11 April 2007.

 

Turkey is drifting East as it were in order to Show the EU they better play ball or else

 

 Avi Mizrachi, “Navy to partake in Turkish exercise,” Jerusalem Post, 12 August 2009.
European Parliament, “EU-Turkey,” 20 October 2009, http://www.europarl.europa.eu/eplive/expert/ - http://www.europarl.europa.eu/eplive/expert/
shotlistpage/20091019SHL62757/default_en.htm.
 “Fears Grow of Sarkozy Initiative to Downgrade Turkey’s EU Bid,” Financial Times, 15 October 2009; Şaban Kardaş,
“Merkel and Sarkozy Call for Privileged Partnership Angers Turkey,” The Jamestown Foundation, 13 May 2009,
Eurasia Daily Monitor, Volume 6, Issue 92.
 Central and Eastern European Watch, “Turkey’s EU Membership and the Public Opinion,” http://www.despiteborders - http://www.despiteborders .
com/clanky/data/upimages/petkova_turkey_eu_public_opionion.pdf; EurActiv, “EU-Turkey Relations,” http://www.euractiv - http://www.euractiv .
com/en/enlargement/eu-turkey-relations/article-129678.

 

While I support Israel in general they make some bonehead PR moves

 

Thats where you are wrong again. Yeah that upset the armed forces but trust me on a few things

 

1. NATO will not let Turkey drift east over Israel

 

2. Turkey will be part of NATO or not be in the EU

 

3. Turk military will reatke the nation before they lose the funding from the west

 

A State outside the State

The Turkish Armed Forces (TSK) is a powerful military machine, whose numbers are only surpassed within NATO by the United States. Armament renovation has been a national priority for decades, supported by all governments without reservations�until now. Furthermore, all new acquisitions and their destinations have been managed by military leaders without any parliamentary control. Thus, the military budget, supposedly 5% of Gross Domestic Product (which places Turkey as the nation within NATO using the greatest percentage of GDP for military), is elaborated by the military staff and its approbation by the legislative power is only formally limited without any debate.

 

Are you talking about the sledgehammer plot-- Yeah that hurt the military but it is still the real power in Turkey

 

 

 

The Army has the money, power and guns, doesn't matter who is nominally in charge

You are still living and dreaming in the past. But things are changing in Turkey even as you are typing away. Even the Turkish military itself is now powerless to stop it. They can resist the PM and the Prez, but they can't resist the entire Turkish nation, can they? And the nation are now ... solidly ... with ... Erdogan and Gul.

 

 

NATO will have to accommodate this latest developments if NATO still values Turkey as a Member State. While Turkey will only remain in NATO for as long as its membership is appreciated and is beneficial to Turkey. Otherwise, it could become another 'France', exitting NATO while remaining a NATO close ally.

 

With some strategic adjustments, Turkey does not need to be a part of the EU to continue trading with EU and benefiting from it. A well-managed, well-organised, efficient economy can remain productively engaged with any other economy without having to be part of any formal economic alliance.

 

Correction to your bonehead statement:

If Turkey attacks Israel and Israel fights back, that is not an Israeli attack on NATO. But if Israel attacks Turkish territory, then that is an attack on a NATO Member State, and therefore is an attack on NATO. BTW, however, Turkey alone is powerful enough to smash Israel to bits, without NATO assistance.

 

The Army has the money, power and guns? Wow! If the King is powerful enough to subdue the General, will the Army obey the King or the General?

 

You have to remember the Turks really don't like the Arabs or the Persians-- most of the anger in Turkey is over the EU, France is blocking it. They don't feel respected. Also Turkey has had a long History of working with the Jews. There was and is a large Jewish Community in Istanbul. This current crisis will pass. It is all political. Turkey wants the new joint strike fighter and the new leopards, they will get them. This is what all this is about.

 

Also the governments support is mainly in the provinces not in the cities, almost all off the Officer corp is wetern educated. Turkey is an strange bird to say the least.

 

Hey, I'm western educated too, remember?

 

No, you severely underrate the close underlying relationship between Turkey and Iran, and Turkey and the Arab states. Forget the occassional petty little spats between neighbours. More importantly, their histories are intimately intertwined, all the way to even ancient, very ancient pre-Islamic times.

 

BTW, it has also often happened that new developments first develop in the provinces, then spread gradually but relentlessly to the cities.

 

No, I don't believe this is just about EU membership, JSF or Leopards. It's much, much deeper than that. It's a vast, new, fundamental transformation in the entire Turkish political landscape. Turkey has, eventually, made the decision to embark on the long awaited, very very important journey to rediscover and reinvent itself.

 

 

Don't you fool realize that its not the Taleban it is Pakistan. They are supporting the war--The longer the war goes that get more US money and and an unstable Afgahnistan allows them to remain the power-

 

Bring back ole Mushi he would out an end to this we need more puppets

 

 

 

I`m really amazed by this conclusion. Maxi, you forget that Israel is a nuclear power with third arsenal in the world by size. They have a ballistic rockets. Ever in 70`s Israel have enough military power to smash all Middle East and North African country. To occupy their territory. Israeli have a weapons their own production. You personally talk about excellent battle tank "Merkava" as one of the most steady machine in the world. Israeli navy have their own made missle boats.  Produce and sell weapons all over the world (Uzi, Galil, TAR-21, Negev, Desert Eagle). Their own Aerospace industry, advanced technology... 

 

What is Turkey? Their army was create after 1945 by USA and NATO to be a stronghold during Cold war against USSR expansion towards Mediterranean sea and Middle East. The army is western oriented, while masses of the population are Islamists and dreams about long dead Ottoman empire. USA from decades have been donate Turkish army by millions dollars. Army made several coup to take-over embarrass for Washington Islamist and Nationalist governments. After end of the Cold war role of the army in Turkish society begin to fall. For 8 years Turkey is ruled by Islamist and anti-western government. The foreign politics is official focused over recovery of Ottoman empire, which mean aggressive pressure (include military) in South-East Europe (The Balkans) and increase of Turkish influence in Middle East. They used a image of Muslim advocate, protector and leader of Islamic world. Turkey is not USA and NATO ally anymore and people in Washington begin to realize it. EU stoped process of Turkish inclusion, because new Turkish official imperialistic ambition contrary to European interests. Turkey refuse to step in 2003 Iraq war and even refuse to give it`s territory in help of "ally" US army. Turkey recently make a deal with Iranian dictator Ahmadinejad (hateful to Iranian people) to help his nuclear programme in face of all world soceity (EU, USA, and even Russia). From begining of this year Turkish military provocations towards Greece (also NATO member) are something usual and make a deep anxiety in the region. Not only flights by heavily armed Turkish fighters at low altitude over Greek islands in Aegean sea, but also deep break of Greek territorial waters by naval vessels- http://sofiaecho.com/2010/03/16/873927_turkish-naval-corvette-enters-greek-waters-and-sails-almost-to-athens - http://sofiaecho.com/2010/03/16/873927_turkish-naval-corvette-enters-greek-waters-and-sails-almost-to-athens

 

What is Turkish army? Aircrafts- American F-16, tanks- German "Leopard", ammunition and logistic -dependent on NATO. Army personal- big by size, well trained and motivated. Own military products or inventions-none. Nukes-none.

 

It`s  matter of time of similar collision like last one. Izrael ever once respond to the Turkish challenge (diplomatic). Izrael have no fear to attack Turkish ship into international waters. I think they accept the challenge. I personally expect Turkey soon to be excluded from NATO.

 

Israel might have no fear of Turkey. But then, neither does Turkey hold any fear of Israel, their 800 nukes notwitstanding.

 

Israel's victories in ME in the past have been relatively quick decisive victories against qualitatively much inferior opposition. It hasn't been tested in a long drawn out war against a worthy opponent. It even struggled to cope with Hezbollah in 2006.

 

Turkey is not Syria, nor Egypt. If Israel really has the balls, let's see it show them then. 

 

I should have been more specific I was talking about Naval power in case Isreal attacks the flotilla.

 

As for the invasion of Iraq--Once again SoD you are uninformed--Really you need to read more then jusy sensationilist headlines.

 

Turkey wanted to be the Invading force, they had thier leopards on the Iraqi border, they claim Iraqi land from the border to Kirkuk. When they were told they couldn't claim that land during the invasion thats when they got mailto:P@##$ - P@##$ # off and refused, they also wanted a lot of US money as a bribe. Guess what we still used our bases in Turkey to attack Iraq, where do you think our planes flew from?

 

I should have specified Turk Naval Power--The Turk Army with out NATO support isn't quite the level of Isreal in terms of a ground army, however they have a good Navy and Good (NATO Supported) Airforce. With NATO support Turkey more than likley is the most powerfull Middle eastern country but not with out NATO.

 

Rank 1-10 Observations: The United States (GFP formula value of 0.184) remains the undisputed leader of our list thanks to their staying "active" in global hotspots, showcasing the world's largest navy and continuing to poor in gobs of money into defense. Our formula sees China edge out Russia but only by the slimmest of margins (0.238 versus 0.241 respectively) with an edge in available manpower and financial capital. France (0.636) and Germany (0.672) are relative equals for the most part but the GFP formula gives a slight edge to France thanks to an aircraft carrier and capable navy as well as a bump in defense spending. Brazil (0.756) is the most powerful South American country on the list thanks to available manpower and a capable navy. Japan (0.920) is a "sleeper" power that sneaks into the top ten with a good navy, strong logistical infrastructure and capital.

Rank 11-20 Observations: Our formula provides for a good disparity between North and South Korea, placing South well-ahead of the North thanks to better infrastructure and capital. Mexico's placement this high on the list is interesting to note - it scored a good balance across the board in all major categories. Israel finally gets a proper placement on this year's list - just out of the top ten - sporting a strong land army with equally strong training, modern equipment and recent combat experience.

 

 

16	http://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=Taiwan">	http://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=Taiwan - Taiwan
17	http://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=Egypt">	http://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=Egypt - Egypt
18	http://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=Iran">	http://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=Iran - Iran
19	http://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=Mexico">	http://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=Mexico - Mexico

 

 

Maybe Greece can beat on Turkey after they leave NATO. Would be nice to rename Istanbul.

 

Yes, quite typical to Turkish policy. Two-faced towards "friends" and always hungry about foreign territory. I also hear about it. There is a information about Turkish plan for North Iraq occupation, just after Coalition force withdraw. In this moment only presence of Coalition forces stopped aspiration of Turkey and ensure Iraqi territorial integrity. Turkish army really love this priom of surprised attack against weak and unprepared enemy, just like they did in Cyprus. Obviously Turks want to begin restoration of their Ottoman empire from Iraq and Aegean islands. In 1998 they send a war ultimatum to Syria and put Syria on it`s knees. They wanted unconditional release of interference in internal affairs and transmission of suspected in PKK support. Now Turkey wants to extend its influence among Palestinians and started a game of nerves with Israel. If it`ll be war between Turkey and Israel, this will be end of Turkey, because Israel will smash Turkey in every aspect (include navy) and most generally- Turkey will finally lose the support of NATO. Nobody in Brussels want to be a shield of Turksih imperial ambitions.

Yes. You can have that some time. Just maybe. In your dreams.

 

Guys, you still don't get it. Turkey will survive, and later thrive, if they don't get into EU. I hope EU gives Turkey a clear, firm rejection some time. Instead of continually pussy footing and dilly dallying with no end in sight. It will then force Turkey to wean itself off Europe. In fact, I really feel that leading Turkish economists should start advising Turkey's leaders to stop begging for this lousy, virtually worthless membership.

 

Turkey then will have to reinvent itself, revamp itself and realign itself. It will be painful initially, but it will be good fot Turkey in the long term. Turkey is a Eurasian realm. It has to learn - or rather, re-learn - how to play as a Eurasian realm. An independently thinking, independently acting Eurasian realm. Not remain as an old faithful western lapdog.

 

The future is in Asia much more than Europe. Turkey will rediscover its Asian roots and prosper as a result of it, instead of perennially languishing as an economic beggar on the periphery of Europe. When Turkey one day revives its past glory, which it surely will, Europeans will look at it again with genuine respect, rather than derision and contempt.

 

As for NATO, it can eject Turkey if it wants. Let's see what happens. One likely scenario is Turkey drifting in the direction of its Turkic brothers in Asia, towards the China-Russia camp. If that is what NATO wants, fine then. So be it. Turkey won't wilt, let alone die.

 

 Opinion polls are not always reliable in Turkey. Compared to previous poll by Konsensus published last month, the AK Party was down 2.8 percent, the CHP was down 1.2 percent while the MHP was up 1.4 percent.

Erdogan is hoping an economic recovery will boost the AK Party's popularity ahead of next year's scheduled vote.

Before Turkey sank into recession in 2009, the AK Party presided over years of strong economic growth and launched historic talks to join the European Union.

But it is distrusted by Turkey's powerful secular elite, including top judges and army generals, because of its roots in political Islam. The party denies any Islamist agenda. (Writing by Ibon Villelabeitia; Editing by Ralph Boulton)

With out the EU and NATO The will be reduced to begger status soon enough. Funny the AK seems to deney they are Islamist even they want to be secular. Turkey might have some hope yet

 

Did anybody going to Turkey outside big cities of Istanbul, Ankara, Bursa and Izmir? Situation is very very miserable! There is numerous villages without electricity, water supply and sanitation in 21 century. People work on the fields with horses and steer, like they did hundreds of years before. Many send their children to work as cheap labor all across Europe (especially Germany) and lived almost for the money they bring back to them. Every village have at least one mosque and many people can`t read, but know Quran by rote absolute brainwashed from Islamist priests.  Is this your modern country, seeking to measure forces with Europe!?  If you go forward in easternmost Turkish region, you will see is a military zone. Soldiers in every step, barbed wire, emplacements, checkpoints and silent people scared to talk it`s Kurd language on public.

 

Turkish economy depend on "pussy footing" Europe and other foreign investment (Japan and USA). European companies build a factory and plants in Turkey, not Turkish itself because they don`t have any potential to produce anything without foreign help. Only a food products. Outside NATO and with Islamist aggressive government on top all this investment will escape immediately, be sure about it. Tha`s why Erdogan is cautious to this moment, but obviously he begin to lose correct idea of things from awhile.

I will tell you who are oppressed in the Middle East --Its easy anyone who isn't a Suuni Muslim male in Sunni Lands or a Shia Muslim male in Shia lands-- If you aren't the same relgion and a Man your screwed in the Middle East:

 

How about the women in Sadi Arabia. Lucky for them the Saud government is stepping in.

 

From the Economist Politics this week:

 

In an attempt to stop child marriages, Saudi Arabia began issuing wedding contracts in which the bride’s age must now be given. The move was prompted by cases of girls as young as eight being married off to much older men.

 

Or how about the Ahmadis

 

Heavily armed men stormed two mosques in the Pakistani city of Lahore, detonating bombs and killing more than 90 Ahmadis, members of a persecuted Muslim sect. Other gunmen attacked a hospital three days later, apparently trying to free one of the mosques’ attackers. Police blamed the “Punjabi Taliban”.

 

How about Justice that is oppressed:

 

 

 

 

Harmony is not just a dream

Israel is caught in a vicious circle. The more its hawks think the outside world will always hate it, the more it tends to shoot opponents first and ask questions later, and the more it finds that the world is indeed full of enemies. Though Mr Netanyahu has reluctantly agreed to freeze settlement-building and is negotiating indirectly with Palestinians, he does not give the impression of being willing to give ground in the interests of peace.

Yet the prospect of a deal between Palestinians and Israelis still beckons. The contours of a two-state solution remain crystal-clear: an adjusted border, with Israel keeping some of the biggest settlements while Palestine gets equal swaps of land; Jerusalem shared as a capital, with special provisions for the holy places; and an admission by Palestinians that they cannot return to their old homes in what became Israel in 1948, with some theoretical right of return acknowledged by Israel and a small number of refugees let back without threatening the demographic preponderance of Jewish Israelis.

And what about Hamas, if Israel is to lift the siege of Gaza? How should Israel handle an authoritarian movement that refuses to recognise it and has in the past readily used terror? One answer is to ask the UN to oversee the flow of goods and people going in and out of Gaza. That is hardly a cure-all, but Hamas would become the world’s problem neighbour, not just Israel’s. The Arab world must do more, pressing Hamas to disavow violence, publicly pledge not to resume the firing of rockets at Israeli civilians and revoke its anti-Semitic charter. The West, led by Mr Obama, should call for Hamas to be drawn into negotiations, both with its rival Palestinians on the West Bank as well as with Israel, even if it does not immediately recognise the Jewish state. It is still the party the Palestinians elected in 2006 to represent all of them. None of this will be easy. But the present stalemate is bloodily leading nowhere.

Israel is a regional hub of science, business and culture. Despite its harsh treatment of Palestinians in the land it occupies, it remains a vibrant democracy. But its loneliness, partly self-inflicted, is making it a worse place, not just for the Palestinians but also for its own people. If only it can replenish its stock of idealism and common sense before it is too late.

People still work on some farms, in certain places, with horses and steer even in Germany, England and France. Even in certain places in Switzerland, the country with the highest per capita income in the world. What's the big deal about that? That's what you keep a workhorse for, to work your farm.

 

Learning the Quran by memory is an Islamic tradition that has gone on for over 14 centuries. Why do you have a problem with that? It's a tradition some folks still like to follow voluntarily. There is a certain method to it, it needs a certain special ability, not to mention commitment, and not every Tom, Dick and Harry can do it even if he's crazy about it. There is absolutely no compulsion to it. Absolutely none at all.

 

You have to understand. Turkey is a country that was at one time almost totally crushed by the combined might of Russia, Britain and France. With countries like Greece and Bulgaria making opportunistic attempts to do some land grabbing. It's a miracle that they've actually survived to the extent they did. It's only natural that a country with Turkey's experience is extremely sensitive regarding matters pertaining to territorial integrity.

 

Turkey's GDP (nominal) for 2009 was over US$600 billion, and per capita income (nominal) was almost US$9,000. Translated into Purchasing-Power-Parity (PPP) terms, its GDP was close to US$900 billion, while its per capita income was close to US$13,000. For an Asian country, okay, Eurasian if you like, with negligible oil resources, that's rather quite impressive economic data, one has to admit. Don't you think so?

 

For comparison:

Mexico, per capita income, nominal: US$10,000, PPP: US$14,500. Brazil, per capita income, nominal: US$8,000, PPP: US$10,500.

 

I agree, things perhaps can be better there. But they aren't that bad either.

 

I take it you didn't read the post above.

 

Here is some more of Islams awesome treatment of women:

 

After military conquests, Muhammad would dole out captured women as http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Muhammad/myths-mu-rape.htm - war prizes to his men.  In at least one case, he advocated that they be raped in front of their husbands.  Captured women were made into sex slaves by the very men who killed their husbands and brothers.  There are four Qur’anic verses in which "Allah" makes clear that a Muslim master has full sexual access to his female slaves, yet there is not one that prohibits rape.

The Qur’an gives Muslim men permission to beat their wives for disobedience.  It plainly says that husbands are “a degree above” wives.  The Hadith says that women are intellectually inferior, and that they comprise the majority of Hell’s occupants.

Under Islamic law, a man may divorce his wife at the drop of a hat.  If he does this twice, then wishes to remarry her, she must first have sex with another man.  Men are exempt from such degradations.

 

 

 

It couldn't be simply stopped in short order. It had become ingrained as a part of military culture. But the practice was progressively phased out in Islam.

 

The differnce is the west has evolved in The Mid east women are mere property-- When the Taliban blows up little girls becuase they want to go to school, that should tell you something. They don't want an educated female population, why you ask---Becuase women tend to be a liberalizing force in the reform of governments.

 

In your unique style you try to compare Brazil with Turkey?! Be careful because Brazil is just like entire continent. There is not only the Amazon, but also regions with standard of living absolute equal to European or North American. With huge European population. Germany is a major weakness to every Turkish citizen. Ask anyone Turk where he want to work and to live and hear the answer. I can imagine how would react one ordinary Turk when he see photo`s of this Brazilian cities

 

 

 

He will prepare to emigrate immediately with a whole family, and soon we often will see Brazilian landscape like this  

 

 

 

Think twice and read more before talk. Brazilian aerospace company http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embraer - Embraer  is world`s fourth bigger producer of commercial aircraft after Boing, Airbus and Bombardier. Is Turkey produce something like this?

 

 

Many Brazilian companies are world leaders in their sector. Like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrobras - Petrobras  (Energy and petrochemicals), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WEG_Industries - WEG Industries  (Industrial equipment and machinery) and  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerdau - Gerdau  (steel). There is also many Brazilian companies which produce their own high-tech products like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gradiente - Gradiente  and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bravox - Bravox  in computers and electronics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iochpe-Maxion - Iochpe-Maxion , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcopolo_S.A. - Marcopolo  and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troller_Ve%C3%ADculos_Especiais_S/A - Troller  in automaking. Is Turkish company a world leader in any sector? Or to produce anything without joint-venture and know-how purchase?  

 

Kurds aren`t culpable to all misery and problems in Turkey. The photographs are from villages just outside of Ankara.

 

I can`t compare India with Brazil, because they are too different. Brazil is a country create from Europeans and somehow European project. India is unique country with long history. Both have huge population, resources and can make power to their own way.

 

Turkey will get even better when it increases its economic engagement further with West Asia, Central Asia and East Asia, something which hasn't been fully developed up to this point in time, no thanks to its previous one-sided love affair with Europe.

 

The Turkey of tomorrow will be a much more multi-directional player. It can no more afford to be besotted with Europe alone. The sooner it realises that and adjust its bearings accordingly, the better.

 

Guys, today is the era of services and ICT. A country does not need to be a manufacturing heavyweight to advance and grow rich. It's the skills in organisation, management, logistics etc. that are more important to propel the country forward. In relation to these, Turkey's Ottoman experience as an imperial power will be an immense asset, if it's channeled and exploited in the right way.

 

Of course, manufacturing prowess helps, but it's no more the end-all-and-be-all of economic development. BTW, Turkey is also no mean player in the building and construction sector. Its construction firms have won and completed serious-scale construction jobs throughout Europe.

 

What about the Christians in the Middle east just 30 years ago they made up 20% of the middle east now just 5%

 

The document said relations between Christians and Muslims were often difficult “principally because Muslims make no distinction between religion and politics, thereby relegating Christians to the precarious position of being considered noncitizens, despite the fact that they were citizens of their countries long before the rise of Islam.” http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/07/world/europe/07pope.html?ref=global-home - http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/07/world/europe/07pope.html?ref=global-home

So if we follow the same logic that returns parts of Israel to the Palistinians, I want to see Christian lands returned also.

 

Oh by the way here are the latest updates:

Date	Country	City	Killed	Injured	Description
2010.06.05	Afghanistan	Kandahar	1	15	Muslim terrorists set off a bicycle bomb, killing a bystander.
2010.06.05	Philippines	Basilan	3	0	Abu Sayyaf members kidnap and murder three villagers.
2010.06.05	Yemen	Marib	3	0	An al-Qaeda ambush leaves three locals dead.
2010.06.04	Iraq	Mosul	2	4	Terrorsts murder two civilians with a roadside bomb.
2010.06.04	Dagestan	Makhachkala	1	1	Muslim radicals shoot a rival imam to death in front of his mosque.
2010.06.04	Iraq	Missan	2	2	Two Iraqis are killed when Muslim radicals rocket an airport.
2010.06.04	Pakistan	Miranshah	1	0	A civilian is captured by the Taliban and shot to death.
2010.06.04	Pakistan	Datta Khel	1	0	An elderly man is beheaded by Religion of Peace zealots.
2010.06.04	Ingushetia	Sagapshi	2	21	A grocery store clerk is gunned down by Islamists who plant a bomb that then kills a rescue worker.
2010.06.04	Ingushetia	Malgobek	1	16	An attack on a shop by Islamic militants leaves one person dead.
2010.06.03	Turkey	Iskenderun	1	0	A Catholic bishop is stabbed to death by a Muslim who says it was Allah's will.
2010.06.03	Pakistan	Quetta	2	0	A man murders his sister and her lover for having 'illicit relations'.
2010.06.03	Thailand	Pattani	1	0	A Buddhist schoolteacher is gunned down by Religion of Peace proponents.
2010.06.03	Iraq	Abu Ghraib	8	0	Eight victims of a Shiite death squad are found in a mass grave.
2010.06.03	Iraq	Sinjar	4	14	Four people are killed when Islamic fundamentalist bombers target and liquor stores.
2010.06.02	Iraq	Mosul	1	0	Islamic militants kidnap a local soldier and slit his throat.
2010.06.02	Iraq	Abu Ghraib	1	3	A Jihad bomb blast leaves one Iraqi dead.
2010.06.02	Afghanistan	Nawzad	4	0	Two young boys are among four civilians taken out by Islamist roadside bomb.
2010.06.02	Afghanistan	Marjah	4	0	Four civilians are killed in their home during a Taliban ambush on a security patrol.
2010.06.01	Pakistan	Karachi	1	0	A Shia is brutally shot to death in a sectarian attack.
2010.06.01	Pakistan	Mohmand	3	0	Three civilians are gunned down by Taliban militants.
2010.06.01	Iraq	Mosul	3	1	Mujahid successfully kill three Iraqis with an incendiary bomb.
2010.06.01	Pakistan	Muslimabad	2	0	A woman and her new husband are murdered by her former in-laws in an honor killing.

 

Geee, Turkey is the great player in construction sector! I personally refuse to live in building construct from Turkish company, because it`s life hazard. They too much like to economize materials like reinforcing bars and use one of the lowest quality cement in the world. For reference remember Izmit earthquake 1999:

 

 

http://www.eas.slu.edu/Earthquake_Center/TURKEY/ - http://www.eas.slu.edu/Earthquake_Center/TURKEY/

 

Shield of Dardania, I wish you to buy an apartament in Turkey and feel an experience of earthquake in the 4th grade  It`ll be cruelly...

Why not? If my Dardania Darling is with me. When the earth shakes around us, we'd be having our own magnificent quake in our penthouse.

 

See this beautiful piece of construction.

Oooooo. I bet you can't construct something like this in Bulgaria, even if you take a hundred years. Now then ...

Its "Fight or Perish" conditionfor Jews 

They Preserved their Religion in Hindu India.There are More Zoroastrians(Parsis) in India than anywhere else in the world.

According to Parsi lore they spent nineteen years on the island of Diu, after which they set sail again and landed in Sanjan also on the west coast of India, either in the year 936AD or in 716AD

Permission to settle was granted by Jadhav Rana, The Hindu ruler. These newly arrived strangers were called Parsis - to denote the region from where they had come - Pars, (Persia), once the birthplace of mighty empires, now the distant dream of a band of refugees.

Hindu India was kind to the refugees from Pars. They suffered no persecution, no  http://www.the-south-asian.com/april2001/Parsis-atash_behram-udwada.jpg - file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/D36160/My%20Documents/Miscellaneous/Parsis-atash_behram-udwada.jpg"> http://www.the-south-asian.com/april2001/Parsis-atash_behram-udwada.jpg - fear.They were allowed to prosper and grow. They built the first fire temple in AD 721, installed with due ceremony the holy fire which they called the Iranshah, the King of Iran; lived largely peaceful, obscure existences in various villages and towns of Gujarat as farmers, weavers and carpenters.  

For about three hundred years after landing at Sanjan, Parsis are said to have lived in peace and without molestation. By that time their numbers had greatly increased. Many moved from Sanjan to other parts of India with their families: to Cambay, Navsari, Anklesvar, Variav, Vankaner and Surat in the north, and to Thane and Chaul in the south. Pockets of Parsis were also found in Upper India, mentioned by early travellers: in Sind, Dehra-Dun and Punjab.

Whenever they left Sanjan to settle elsewhere, they carried a part of the Iranshah with them-the first fire they had consecrated on Indian soil. But not all climes were as hospitable as Sanjan. In Sind, Ibrahim the Ghaznavid perceived the Parsis as a colony of fire-worshippers and attacked them. In Thana, which was ruled by the Portuguese, they were seen as idolaters and put upon by missionaries to convert to Christianity.

However, Islam did follow them even to India. In 1465 Sanjan was sacked and destroyed by the Muslim Sultanate. Parsis fought valiantly, side by side with their Hindu benefactors. Many lost their lives, but the priests managed to rescue the sacred fire and carried it safely to a cave on a hill, where, protected by jungle and sea, they guarded it for the next twelve years.

Though they didn't completely lose touch with the Persian language, Gujarati (their version of it), started to become their mother tongue. They adopted many Hindu customs. Parsi women dressed like their Indian counterparts. They even wore nose rings.

Parsis are a people who uprooted themselves and moved to a different world to save 

their religion. Parsis migrated to India one thousand years ago. The Parsi experience is 

about dilemmas that most minority communities face; questions about religion and 

race, survival and extinction, assimilation and identity, tradition and the modern 

world. There are only 100,000 Parsis in the world today, mostly in India, particularly 

in Bombay. Demographically, they are a dying community-our deaths outweigh our 

births. Parsis like to quote a remark that Mahatma Gandhi once reportedly made, "In 

numbers Parsis are beneath contempt, but in contribution, beyond compare." Out of 

an Indian population of more than one billion, Parsis number a mere 76,000. 

Tatas theBiggest business conglomerate of India is chaired by parsis.Godrej  & Wadia Group two other business houses of India are also owned by parsis.

Hanging Gardens and temple of silence of Bombay are famous.Temple of Silence is a Parsi Fire temple.