Standards! Are they what we think?

No, as far as I know, the depictions I wish you to see, come from books, and I have scanned those into my computer.

The above is a depiction of Saladin after the Battle of Horns, where he kills Guy, and accepts the resignation of the real King!

My question still exists, just why would any artist clothe a "Saracen" in the garments of a French King?

Note that Saladin is wearing a chest protector with the "fleur de Lis" apparent!

Since a lot of these old depictions are a "consolidated" depiction, then you will see differing points of view which are time related upon the same depiction! Thus, upon the above depiction, you will be able to see Saladin himself in the upper center of the depiction, cutting off the head of Guy!

Thus my question still remains, just why would any artist denote a "king" of the "saracens", as being from a royal house of France?

I would like to thank my step daughter for doing the above! Although I watched her do it, I still have no idea how she did it?

Edited by opuslola - 22-Jul-2010 at 14:20

Saladin kills Reynaldd Chatillion after the battle of Hattin, not Guy, he goes on to found Lusignan Dynasty of Cyprus.

The simple answer for Saladin and the European style dress is artisitic tropes. It is simply the way one can depict Saladin. Familiarising him to the reader by such imagery and insinutating ideas of nobility etc. Saladin was a very popular figure amongst Christians in the Middle Ages.

Hey thanks for the correction! Indeed Reynauld de Chatillon and all of the Knights Templar and Hospitallier, were executed by Saladin or by his order!

The name "Guy", which is sometimes used to denote someone who acts like an idiot, was saved! Like "Guy" I was in a hurry to write, and acted like an idiot!

In the depiction shown with the heading "Battle of Hattin again both sides depicted in a very similar manner." It seems easy to identify Guy above, since only one figure is dressed in a white blouse, etc., embolden with a certain form of the Christian Cross!

Do you know in what manner these crosses were called?

Does your source indicate whether or not Saladin was identified in the above depiction? The only possibility I can extract, is the man wearing the "purple" wearing an orange turban who seems to be holding the left arm of Guy!

It also seems that the number of "banners" or "standards" seen flying in the background should make a good study all their own!

And just what is the armoured knight in the left foreground doing? It seems he is holding a beam or post and standing it or forcing it into another beam, etc.?

Thanks for the above views!

I still do not accept your explanation of such things as "artistic tropes!" Some of them, maybe, but not all!

Such as your explanation of the manner of dress, etc., of the Order of

St. Johns! Certainly this very "order" had been in the East for hundreds of years by the time this event happened! Is it by any great chance that they seemed to look "oriental?"

Oh! and as regards the seige of Daimettia, it could well be considered that a great deal of mercenaries fought here/there and they could well be dressed as mercs and identical on both sides!

Edited by opuslola - 05-Jul-2010 at 14:12

Yes! I believe you are correct about the cross! You might even notice that it is made in the most simple manner. It appears the base pole, the one the knight is holding with both arms, appears to have been tapered to almost a point, and then inserted into a rough cut hole in the cross-piece!

A very crude exhibit when compared to most representations which are square notch fitted or topped, straight tees!

You might also notice the banner exhibited with a single chevron apparent!

I also cannot figure out what the knight wearing the orange frock is doing? You will notice a lance seemingly stuck in the helment of the downed knight at his feet. Is it the orange clad knight holding the lance or is it the knight with the scaled armour?

Regards,

Yes! I sort of see it! I was worried since I saw no golf club anywhere!

Quite a good back-swing, I think!

Originally posted by opuslola Yes! I sort of see it! I was worried since I saw no golf club anywhere! Quite a good back-swing, I think!

Edited by red clay - 07-Jul-2010 at 07:41

I actually worked at the Noble sport of Flog I carried a B card for awhile, [Asst. Pro, mainly teaching] but mainly was involved in course maint. as Asst. Supt and later as Greens Supt.

But, back to the above golf depiction, upon closer examination, it does seem that he has taken what could be called a very good golf swing with a spiked mace!

Nice extension of the left arm!, as well as a great shoulder turn!@

FORE!

Edited by opuslola - 22-Jul-2010 at 14:24

Originally posted by opuslola No, as far as I know, the depictions I wish you to see, come from books, and I have scanned those into my computer. The above is a depiction of Saladin after the Battle of Horns, where he kills Guy, and accepts the resignation of the real King! My question still exists, just why would any artist clothe a "Saracen" in the garments of a French King? Note that Saladin is wearing a chest protector with the "fleur de Lis" apparent! Since a lot of these old depictions are a "consolidated" depiction, then you will see differing points of view which are time related upon the same depiction! Thus, upon the above depiction, you will be able to see Saladin himself in the upper center of the depiction, cutting off the head of Guy! Thus my question still remains, just why would any artist denote a "king" of the "saracens", as being from a royal house of France? I would like to thank my step daughter for doing the above! Although I watched her do it, I still have no idea how she did it?

Sidney! Here is one of them!

Ron

toyomotor, are you suggesting that the "trefoil" and the "Fleur de Lis", are not a part and parcel of the art of heraldry?

You must either be mad or you hold some thing that you will now present to support your belief?

So, either support it or leave it along?

Ron