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Maggie View Drop Down
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Posts: 1 		  Quote Maggie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Avestan Directions
    Posted: 26-Jul-2018 at 17:17
Hi everyone... I am pretty new here. This is my first post. I'm thinking of getting a tattoo (please do not laugh :P ) that reads "dog, best companion with eternal love" and I would love it to be in Avestan language. I have done lots of research and have found each word's letters in Avestan Dictionary (Dog, Companion, Love, forever):

span [-]: m. dog

airyêmâ [airyaman]: 6 (N) companion, friend (hz1)

kaiti [-]: f. love, affection, friendship (k122)

ýavaêtâtaêca [ýavaêtât]: 14 (D) f. forever (k423)

Using the Avestan alphabet for each letter, it turned into the following image. 


Can someone please check to see if it's written correctly? No one wants a misspelled tattoo on their body ;) 

Greatly appreciate it! 
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Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Xorasan (Khorasan) is the land of the east
 
As far as I know Xorasan is combined of xwar (sun) and if I am nots mistaken a root "as-" from Parthian "asan-*" ~ "seem, appear" rather than being related to Xawrusa or something.
 
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Xawrava (xawr=sun + ava=downward) meant "west", the modern Persian word for "west" is Xavar (Khavar), however it can also mean "east", like "Khavar-mianeh" (Middle East),
 
I had not heard of Xawarva within Persian vocabulary. But as a matter of fact in Kirmanji Kurdish there is Hwerawa or Xwerawa (in Southern dialects) and Rojhawa (in Central and Northern ones) which are respectively combined of hwer / rojh (sun) and "awa". The later word, awa, means disappeared or vanished as well as the verb awa bun is used in sense of to disappear / to vanish. 
 
By the way Persian "xavar" mostly means "east" and if I am not mistaken its etymology has nothing to do with a presumed Avestan "hvara-ava".
 
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

the same Avestan word Apaxtar was used for "north", in the modern Persian this is Bakhtar, of course it also can mean "east" in some sources, maybe because Bakhtar (Bactria) was in the east and also "west" in the several other sources, the former name of Kermanshah province in the west of Iran was Bakhtaran!!
 
New Persian baxtar is most likely a cognate of Avestan apaxtar, though I have not heard of it being used in sense of "east" but only "west". Brother, Kermanshah was periodically named Baxtaran because of some political regards and the designation was expiclity due to the fact that Kermanshah is located on the west of Iran. That is to say the word baxtar is not used in sense of west because Kermanshah is located on the western Iran.
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Posts: 126 		  Quote Quaere Verum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2010 at 10:37
Originally posted by Vivekanand


Its intriguiging.. I saw some youtube videos of Yezidi temple at Lalesh, Iraq... it looks similiar to any olden day Hindu temple.. Their fire worship...
 
As far as I know there is nothing reliable to connect Yezidi creed to an assumed Indian origin. In practice Yezdanism is as Indian as Hinduism is Iranian (or probably even in a lesser degree, since the word Hindu itself is kind of an Iranian equivalent of Sanskrit Sindu*). That is to say there are only Indo-Iranian elements to be shared in common. As a matter of fact Yezidi religion shares explicit similarities with Zoroastrianism-a famous Iranian creed in which fire plays a truly eminent role.      
 
 
Originally posted by Vivekanand

worship of the peocock angle... Hindu's Worship Murugan/Skandar/Kathir (all same God with different names :-)) who is almost identical in being a knowledge giver ( Gnanavel, is is another name, Spear of Knowledge) and rides a peacock..
 
He is supposed to have circled the earth in search of the fruit of knowledge... Now, Yezidi also believe their Melech Taus landed upon their region while circling the earth...
 
Yezidi Kurds do not worship any peafowl at all. They only venerate an angel (perhaps in its Abrahamic significance) who is often supposed to be a fallen one (the same as Lucifer in Abrahamic religions) but this time they have got another story in which he (Melek Tawis) eventually receives the divine redemption. Tawisi Melek does not ride a peacock but is always depicted as a peacock that to me reminds a Semitic deity namely Adra Melech which is also depicted as half-peacock (in spite of the fact that Arabic melek is a cognate of Hebrew melech). 

Originally posted by Vivekanand

Amazing similarity... Seeks more research... In fact, lot of research is going on this aspect as we speak.. This can be one missing link that can bridge the gap..
 
There are clearly no exclusive likenesses between Yezidi and Indian religions out of common Indo-Iranian characteristics. Rumored assumptions implying an Idnian origin for Yezidanism or Yezidi Kurds are based on materials which obviously suffer from reliablity gap.

 
Originally posted by Vivekanand

I came across Yezidi while, reading about Gobleki Tepe, the ancient 8000 BC temple unearthed in Urfa, south Turkey... 

It talks of a temple , perhaps the worlds oldest unearthed temple with strange stone carvings.. of the lizard like reptile and several pillars... leaving the archealogical world again back to square one.. There is so much more to learn... 

 
Was that temple a Yezidi one?!
 
 
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Posts: 126 		  Quote Quaere Verum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2010 at 10:12
Originally posted by Ince


Also the Kurdish religion Yezdi is believed to have been influenced by the Mittani and some believe it is similar to Hindu, for example here

Secret Hinduism in middle-east still surviving from ancient times
http://secretmiddleeasthinduism.blogspot.com/
 
Brother I just sought it and I got nothing specific about Yezidi religion or Yezidi Kurds being Indian in origin. Seemingly there are no reliable materials for such a talk. 
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Posts: 126 		  Quote Quaere Verum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2010 at 10:06
Originally posted by ranjithvnambiar

These two are refered as two of the sixteen iranian lands in their history of migration in  their scripture Vendidad.
 
To my knowledge Vidaevadata (Vendidad) does not talk about where Iranian peoples immigrated from, but it implies the lands finally inhabited by Iranian peoples (or explicitly the lands created by Ahura Mazda) when it makes mention of those sixteen lands including Hapta Hyndu.
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Posts: 15 		  Quote Vivekanand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2010 at 22:15
@Ince...

Thanks for the interfaith.org link.. Apart from the aspect you present..It reinstate the faith in my learnings that the Aryan Invasion Theory was absolute political nonsense.. 

Yes.. I have heard about Yezidi.. their Taus Melech temple in Lalesh... but never about Mittani...

Its intriguiging.. I saw some youtube videos of Yezidi temple at Lalesh, Iraq... it looks similiar to any olden day Hindu temple.. Their fire worship... worship of the peocock angle... Hindu's Worship Murugan/Skandar/Kathir (all same God with different names :-)) who is almost identical in being a knowledge giver ( Gnanavel, is is another name, Spear of Knowledge) and rides a peacock..


He is supposed to have circled the earth in search of the fruit of knowledge... Now, Yezidi also believe their Melech Taus landed upon their region while circling the earth...

Amazing similarity... Seeks more research... In fact, lot of research is going on this aspect as we speak.. This can be one missing link that can bridge the gap..

I came across Yezidi while, reading about Gobleki Tepe, the ancient 8000 BC temple unearthed in Urfa, south Turkey... 

It talks of a temple , perhaps the worlds oldest unearthed temple with strange stone carvings.. of the lizard like reptile and several pillars... leaving the archealogical world again back to square one.. There is so much more to learn... 
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Posts: 550 		  Quote Ince Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2010 at 15:37
Originally posted by Vivekanand

Originally posted by Ince

I have a question, what is the view of Indian Nationalists regarding the Mittani?


Don't know what Indian Nationalist, whoever they are Big smile, would think of Mittani...

Originally posted by Ince

They are believed to have been Sindi in origin and are still some Kurdish tribes by the name of Sindi and Mattin that exist today. 

Also Kurds have some high frequanceys of Haplogroup R2 8% among Anatolian Kurds and 40% among Georgian Kurds who are much smaller in numbers and range in the thousands where as Anatolian Kurds range in the millions.


I have not read of any mention of Mittani in Hindu scriptures, pre-vedic or vedic ones..  I checked Wikipedia on Mittani.. but there is no mention of the Sindi origin of the Mittani Culture.. Do you have know any website where I could learn more on this topic....



The Mittani been Indo-Aryan in origin is included in the Wiki article and some websites on the web.  As for the sindi been the Mittani.  I have come across some sites that make that claim example here

http://www.interfaith.org/hinduism/origins/

Mehrdad Izady at Harvard University, showing the influence of Indic/Sindhi people on Kurdistan (parts of Iraq, Turkey, Iran) states that "The Mittani aristocratic house almost certainly was from the immigrant Sindis, who survive today in the populous Kurdish clan of Sindi in the same area where the Mittani kingdom once existed. These ancient Sindi seem to have been an Indic, and not Iranic group of people, and in fact a branch of the better known Sindis of India-Pakistan, ". Hence here the opinion is that Aryan influence travelled from India to outside). The only explanation is that if there was an Aryan migration then it took place such a long time ago that it predates Mohenjodaro cities, and everyone had forgotten about their ancestral lands.



Also the Kurdish religion Yezdi is believed to have been influenced by the Mittani and some believe it is similar to Hindu, for example here

Secret Hinduism in middle-east still surviving from ancient times
http://secretmiddleeasthinduism.blogspot.com/
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Posts: 15 		  Quote Vivekanand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2010 at 10:40
Originally posted by Ince

I have a question, what is the view of Indian Nationalists regarding the Mittani?


Don't know what Indian Nationalist, whoever they are Big smile, would think of Mittani...

Originally posted by Ince

They are believed to have been Sindi in origin and are still some Kurdish tribes by the name of Sindi and Mattin that exist today. 

Also Kurds have some high frequanceys of Haplogroup R2 8% among Anatolian Kurds and 40% among Georgian Kurds who are much smaller in numbers and range in the thousands where as Anatolian Kurds range in the millions.


I have not read of any mention of Mittani in Hindu scriptures, pre-vedic or vedic ones..  I checked Wikipedia on Mittani.. but there is no mention of the Sindi origin of the Mittani Culture.. Do you have know any website where I could learn more on this topic....
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Posts: 550 		  Quote Ince Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2010 at 07:54
I have a question, what is the view of Indian Nationalists regarding the Mittani? They are believed to have been Sindi in origin and are still some Kurdish tribes by the name of Sindi and Mattin that exist today. 

Also Kurds have some high frequanceys of Haplogroup R2 8% among Anatolian Kurds and 40% among Georgian Kurds who are much smaller in numbers and range in the thousands where as Anatolian Kurds range in the millions.
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Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2010 at 05:36
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

It is not really possible that Indians want to separate themselves from other Indo-European peoples, Sanskrit is an Indo-European language and this language was introduced to Indians, either by a migration or by cultural relations of aborgingal people of India and an Indo-European people.
 
It is clear that India couldn't be the original land of Indo-European peoples, for example about Iranian people, we know according to Avesta, one of the oldest Indo-European sources, the original land of Iranians/Aryans (Airyana Vaeja) was in the region that "There were ten winter months there, two summer months; and those were cold for the waters, cold for the earth, cold for the trees."

Apart from  Airyanam vaejo it speaks about a Hapta-Hendu too.These two are refered as two of the sixteen iranian lands in their history of migration in  their scripture Vendidad.The Iranian homelands Airyanam Vaejo, described as too cold in its 10-months-long winter, andHapta-Hendu, described as rendered too hot for men.The Hapta-Hendu is widely accepted by linguists as a cognate of Saptha Sindhu in Sanskrit.Sapta Sindhu as per present understanding is Sindhu(Indus) & its tributaries.That defnitely is in the east of Iran.If Iran is the final place where they settled then where did they migrate from...?
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Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2010 at 00:11

Dear Balochi.

Earlier I posted a link  ie  http://www.omilosmeleton.gr/en/indology_en.asp  which is a greek site and authored by Dr.Nicholas Kazanas , a greek citizen and a British subject.In what respect are you calling him a hindu nationalist..?

Second link I posted is

http://sites.google.com/site/r2dnainfo/R2-Home/Aryans/reasons-why-the-aryan-invasion-theory

which is a site which contains the details of studies carried out by several geneticists of different nationalities. Or do you mean to call people of all nationalities, (except a few which only you know) as Hindu nationalists..? What is the basis of your claim..?

 

Third site

http://www.cycleoftime.com/articles_view.php?codArtigo=54 is authored by Simone boger who is a Brazilian citizen and a freelane journalist who had worked for a number of media outlets, including Globonews TV, the BBC World Service, Deutsche Welle and a variety of magazines and newspapers.

How come you call her a Hindu Nationalist..? What is wrong with you..?

 

What makes you so distinct & qualified enough to throw allegations against them..?
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Originally posted by balochii

^ lol who wrote that article, even claiming iranian territory as hindu indian, its clear its written by some nationalistic indian who has no sense of real history. why can't you guys ever bring sources from outside your nationlistic circles?

 
This is the reaction I expected, as you would believe whatever is written in ancient scriptures, scrolls of west, but ancient Indian / Hindu scriptures and scrolls are considered myths.. :-) even if they corroborate with mordern places... Herat, Namaksar, Gandhara Civilization all exist and you can see it was mentioned in these scripts... It is proof enough for me.. I am no nationalist.. I dont want to claim everything came from India..  But ancient Bharata Varsha, as mentioned in those texts, has a pretty high and significant contribution to the development of the Hindu religion, spirituality and Sanskrit as well..

Whether this Sanskrit is the source of all languages is at the moment boisterous speculation and needs more study.. The Hindu scriptures donot talk of giving away free spiritual, linguistic knowledge to world all over.. so, even in that aspect, we are confined to Bharatha Varsha and odd expeditions South of Asia and into Europe for explorations... No way suggesting a mass influence on the world...

I dont want to say Hinduism is the origin of all religions, Sanskrit mother of all languages and so on... My point is Hindu religion is entirely Indian, (in the sense of Bharatha Varsha) surely blended with learnings by our sages from different parts they visited , and Sanskrit is a language we created.. then wrote several thousands of volumes of texts..the Upanishads, Nishads, the Vedas and many more...

Donot impose West on us... when the truth, and our own scriptures, says otherwise...
 
Originally posted by balochii

also since when was sadhu gandhara of your's mentioned in the article i posted?
 

Sad it was not... it will never be, because of political reasons.. The words from the Quran, the Avestan texts or the Bible will be taken for reference, but Hindu texts ignored.. why?

Originally posted by balochii
gandhara civilization and its history belongs to the populations of northern pakistan of today be it muslim, hindu, buddhist. not hindus, muslims or sikhs from india of today, they have nothing to do with the place.
[/QUOTE


Yes, it belongs to Pakistan.. materially..the land belongs to you and you are the immediate succesors of the people who lived their.. 

but the legacy has always been followed by us.. we on a daily basis perform th

Yes, it belongs to Pakistan.. materially..the land belongs to you and you are the immediate succesors of the people who lived their.. 

but the legacy has always been followed by us.. we on a daily basis perform the similiar rituals that the people in these sites used to perform 5000 years ago, we believed the same spiritual path, the same representations of the supreme power whom we refer to as  gods.. while you don't.. nobody can take that away from us... We are happy with our legacy... we dont stake any claims on anybody else's land or property
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Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2010 at 22:19
Originally posted by balochii

^ i dont think anyone is suggesting that though, India already had a civilization, however the exchanges that took place from aryans added to the indian civilization, especially the language(Sanskrit) and literature.
 
For example even in modern India many indians have adopted (english) as their main language and westernization mixing it with their own culture. I believe some thing similar might have taken place when aryans existed just west of india, this also took place when (mughals) from central asia came, for example much of what we call north indian food today is mughali food

When there never took place a Aryan invasion at allhow do you expect such exchanges..

And about english in India, only less than 10% of Indian population are well versed in it and more than 95% of schools of India teaches in their colocial or locational languages.
And people learn english in India purely for career purpose.
And the whole of prehistoric literature ,the names of all the places , rivers and even all the dieties are in sanskrit..
How do you explain that.
A group or groups of so called aryans numbering only thousands, came to Indus-saraswati valley civilization which stretched from Balochistan to Karnataka in South India spanning more than 2 million square kilometres and accomodated a population of more than 20 million people and conquered them in 1700-1500Bc and taught them sanskrit& religion and fire worship  and made them write around 17500+ books in pre-classical sanskrit within next 200 years..

Great imagination Clap
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Posts: 699 		  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2010 at 21:57
^ again read my above post
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Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2010 at 21:56
Dear Balochi,

Both Archaeology and genetics had   clearly and doubtlessly ruled out any possibility of an Aryan invasion/migration to the Indus-Saraswati valley.
And about the mythical concept of Indus-Saraswati civilization being a dravidian one kindly visit the site given earlier ie cycle of time.
Linguistics also is in favour of this ie in case of rivernames ,placenames and names of dieties worshipped by rigvedic people.

Linguistic methodologies have limitations it cannot give a timeline for any developmen and apart from this it completely fails in addressing the direction of propogations.Every thing is based on assumptions 

And whether or not to acknowledge facts is one's decision.And if you want you can continue your propoganda of getting confused and confusing others in matters where you have little understanding.
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Posts: 699 		  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2010 at 21:54
^ again the links lead to some nationalistic indian page, for once post a link that is not done by an indian nationalistic, also we are not talking about indus valley per say, we are talking about Gandhara, which is totally based today's pakistan and eastern afghanistan, modern india has nothing to do with this.

Edited by balochii - 20-Jul-2010 at 21:56
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Posts: 672 		  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2010 at 21:47
Kindly go through the following link to know what genetical studies say about Indus-Saraswati civilization and the so called "Aryan invasion"


http://sites.google.com/site/r2dnainfo/R2-Home/Aryans/reasons-why-the-aryan-invasion-theory
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Kindly follow the link to know what archaeologists found  in Indus-Saraswati valley
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Posts: 699 		  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2010 at 12:55
^ lol who wrote that article, even claiming iranian territory as hindu indian, its clear its written by some nationalistic indian who has no sense of real history. why can't you guys ever bring sources from outside your nationlistic circles?
 
also since when was sadhu gandhara of your's mentioned in the article i posted?
 
gandhara civilization and its history belongs to the populations of northern pakistan of today be it muslim, hindu, buddhist. not hindus, muslims or sikhs from india of today, they have nothing to do with the place.


Edited by balochii - 20-Jul-2010 at 18:26
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This is an excerpt from a quite well translated version of Smrti Texts... it will give more clarity

http://www.sindhulogy.org/DynImageContent.aspx?pid=76&xmlpath=Theme10Part1&xsltpath=std01
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