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The Golden Phallanx
Knight
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Topic: Great Powers in History Posted: 25-Mar-2005 at 11:27 |
What about Germany??
Divided into over 300 states for much of the European imperialistic age, it finally united in 1871 and went from the junkyard of Europe to the industrial superpower in 30 years!!! Militarily advanced you ask? Listen, little Prussia took out the Habsbourg empire and a few years later France in order to united little germany. They had a form of machine gun far before the rest of the world and culturally many philosophers come from germany including scientists, I can't even name them all. THe GErman nation has had much influence upon our history books there, look at how the founders of the Frankish and English kingdoms were germanic ppl, the entire post roman age was dominated by immigrating people from Germany.
Anyways, I could go on for a long time of the philosophical and cultural accomplishments of Prussia and the German Empire of 1871-1918...and to think the german empire only existed for 40 years and it took on the french and british and russian empires, the three greatest powers of the day and would ahve won if it wasn't for American intrvention...
They certainly deserve the first class category I'd say...
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We are all a result of what we have lived. Culture, attitude, perspective. For everything we do, there is a reason. There is no true evil, only the absence of proper communication.
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Alparslan
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Posted: 22-Mar-2005 at 09:21 |
Sorry but Vikings are beyond the scope of this topics.
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Seko
Emperor
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Posted: 21-Mar-2005 at 22:33 |
Well here we go again on a subjective list of goodies.
Ancients:
- Sumerians
- Egyptians
- Persians
- Greeks
- Romans
1'st millinium:
- Huns
- Byzantines
- Persians
- Gokturks
- Tang Chinese
- Empire of the four rightly guided caliphs
- Umayyad Caliphate
- Abbasid Caliphate
- Vikings
2'nd millinium:
- Great Seljuks
- Mongol Empire
- Holy Roman Empire
- Spanish Empire
- Ottoman Empire
- Habsburg empire
- Napoleonic French
- British Empire
- Communist Russian
- Modern American
All are first tier!
Edited by Seko
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Thracian
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Posted: 20-Mar-2005 at 23:04 |
France has very interesting things to it then.
Bulgaria was also a great power once - in medieval times it defended Europe from different hordes of barbarians.
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Exarchus
General
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Posted: 20-Mar-2005 at 14:25 |
Originally posted by Oguzoglu
I cant agree on Prussia and France. How can
you define all of France, Roman Empire and Islamic Empire in
one category? France had nothing to affect history that much except
their colonies and their cultural expansion over these colonies. The
main colonial power was England, Britain... |
France has made a lot that affected history. Even though it's not
necessary linked to its power. Even England, that you call the first
colonial power (it was more Britain than England though), has an heavy
French influence.
In fact according to askoxford, ask the experts. There are more French
words in modern English than old English words. (www.askoxford.com).
http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutenglish/pr oportion?view=uk
The gothic architecture was the French art (Opus Francigenum) before
being renamed. The biggest English cathedrals were built by French
architects, Remigius of Caen built the Lincoln Cathedral, William of
Sens built the Canterbury cathedral and many others.
Louis XIV built the Palace of Versailles that caused a huge French
wanabee trend in all Europe. Versailles drained 25% of the state income
and many countries tried to build one withoput reaching the same size
or opulence (the closest is in Saint Petersbourg).
France has 4 buildings that were world tallest structure. The
cathedrals of Strasbourg (143m), Beauvais (153m), Rouen (153m) and the
Eiffel Tower (300m).
The Metric system is the Systeme International d'unit. Created by the French too.
The very first digital calculator was made by Blaise Pascal who almost
created the first programming language (the modern Turbo Pascal is even
named after him).
Not to mention the Civil Code, or Napoleonic Code, used by almost all
countries of Europe exepted a few (UK, Ireland, the Scandinavians and
Russia).
About military power, France was the world 3rd most populated country
for ages. It lost a lot of people through wars and plagues. And in
internal wars, though just look at the performances of all French
substates alone. Normandy, Burgundy, Aquitaine, Toulouse. If you're
muslim you must know of Raymond de Saint Gilles, count of Toulouse, who
took over Antioch, Tripoli and Jerusalem and of the slaughter of Al
Aksa.
Edited by Exarchus
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Vae victis!
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Guests
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Posted: 20-Mar-2005 at 11:49 |
Originally posted by Winterhaze13
France did nothing to affect history. Are you insane!! Read up on something that began in 1789 in France which later spread to the entire continent and gave us many of the great principles as Liberty and equality which shape our society today. It influenced every event after the fact, including the Russian Revolution and every revolution since then.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Revolution
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Well, these cannot be called the effects of France; but the effects of "French" to history. France was the kingdom which was the place of "French revolution", so it is not about the great power of France at those times. I know enough about the revolution. The revolution also caused the ottoman and Austuria-Hungary empires to be divided, because of the nationalist ideology that was spread all over the world, by French nation...
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Imperator Invictus
Caliph
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Posted: 20-Mar-2005 at 11:28 |
will you being covering later periods like early modern and modern? |
No, not really.
But if you like these classifications, you should check out the AE chart that I've been working.
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Winterhaze13
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Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 16:46 |
Fair enough!! Did you make this on your own and if so, will you being covering later periods like early modern and modern?
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Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes.
-- Voltaire
French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778)
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Imperator Invictus
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Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 16:33 |
I think the first tiers there are deservingly so, but the merit of
others are debatable (both upward or downward). Looking back at my list, I think a lot of powers
were definately left out, but there're too many to count so...
Edited by Imperator Invictus
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Winterhaze13
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Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 16:26 |
Looks very good, you certainly cover more than I do. But, are all of these great powers?
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Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes.
-- Voltaire
French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778)
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Imperator Invictus
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Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 16:15 |
How about this list?
Ancient (-300 BC)
First Tier Powers
Akkadia
Assyria
Hittites
Egypt
Zhou
Achaemenids
Second Tier
Babylon
Mittanii
Jin and Qin
Media
Classical (300 BC - 500 AD)
First Tier
Macedon
Qin
Han
Rome
Xiong Nu
Sassanid
Mauryan
Second Tier
Carthage
Seleucid
Parthia
Palmrya
Bactria
Medieval (500-1450)
First Tier
Caliphate
Tang
Mongol Empire
Tamerlane's
Second Tier
Byzantium
Carolingian
Jin
Golden Horde
Il-Khanate
Mameluks
Yuan
Ming
Kok Turuk
Seljuk
Fatimid
Song
Ottomans
HRE
Edited by Imperator Invictus
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Winterhaze13
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Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 16:04 |
Originally posted by rider
Well, maybe the second class is better, like more people in it or so. And the Catholic... Why at 800, in 800, if i am correct there was just Christianity, or Roman Catholic and Greek Catholic, then of Islam, if oyu could put it into Caliphate, then it would be obivious to put Catholic over to Spain... Then, the power and beaty of Italy ended with the Wars of Italy in 1500's. |
The power of the Church over state affairs began with Charlemagne early in the 9th century.
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Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes.
-- Voltaire
French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778)
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Winterhaze13
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Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 16:03 |
Originally posted by Gubukjanggoon
Why the heck is Prussia a second class power?! That's one of the greatest empires the world has ever seen! It's acts had powerful consequences in both Europe and the world. |
Explain?
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Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes.
-- Voltaire
French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778)
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Winterhaze13
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Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 16:03 |
Originally posted by Oguzoglu
I cant agree on Prussia and France. How can you define all of France, Roman Empire and Islamic Empire in one category? France had nothing to affect history that much except their colonies and their cultural expansion over these colonies. The main colonial power was England, Britain... |
France did nothing to affect history. Are you insane!! Read up on something that began in 1789 in France which later spread to the entire continent and gave us many of the great principles as Liberty and equality which shape our society today. It influenced every event after the fact, including the Russian Revolution and every revolution since then.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Revolution
Edited by Winterhaze13
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Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes.
-- Voltaire
French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778)
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Winterhaze13
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Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 16:00 |
Originally posted by white dragon
i'd have to agree have fun finding out all the powers that have existed throughtout history. |
Well, I consulted a Military Encyclopedia. And I knew this would be ambitious and I think I did a good job on it. And I welcome any challenges to that claim.
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Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes.
-- Voltaire
French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778)
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rider
Tsar
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Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 14:50 |
Well, maybe the second class is better, like more people in it or so. And the Catholic... Why at 800, in 800, if i am correct there was just Christianity, or Roman Catholic and Greek Catholic, then of Islam, if oyu could put it into Caliphate, then it would be obivious to put Catholic over to Spain... Then, the power and beaty of Italy ended with the Wars of Italy in 1500's.
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Gubook Janggoon
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Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 14:37 |
Why the heck is Prussia a second class power?! That's one of the
greatest empires the world has ever seen! It's acts had powerful
consequences in both Europe and the world.
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Gazi
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Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 08:12 |
Originally posted by Jagatai Khan
The Seljuk Empire was one of the greatests in 1000-1200.Iran,Khorasan,some of Northern India,Kazakhstan were under their control.
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I agree
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Freedom is the recognition of necessity.-Friedrich Engels
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Jagatai Khan
Chieftain
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Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 08:03 |
The Seljuk Empire was one of the greatests in 1000-1200.Iran,Khorasan,some of Northern India,Kazakhstan were under their control.
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cattus
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Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 04:29 |
My immediate urge was to flip the Mongol and Ottoman empires.
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