Great Powers in History
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: General History
Forum Name: General World History
Forum Discription: All aspects of world history, especially topics that span across many regions or periods
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2579
Printed Date: 28-Apr-2024 at 04:02
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Topic: Great Powers in History
Posted By: Winterhaze13
Subject: Great Powers in History
Date Posted: 18-Mar-2005 at 18:23
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My intention is to break up the great powers of history into two distinuishing categories: First and Second Class. I will largely be taking into account culture, military, government and economic considerations. Lastly, the world powers (those who expanded their power outside their domain), will likely be placed in First Class. Although, some left such an indeliable impact on their region that they deserve the status of First Class. ------------- Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes. -- Voltaire French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778) |
Replies:
Posted By: Winterhaze13
Date Posted: 18-Mar-2005 at 18:27
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FIRST CLASS Ancient Greece (Mainly Athens and Sparta) Ancient Egypt Mesopotamia Persia Roman Empire Alexander's Macedonia Han Empire (China) Islam (C. 650) The Catholic Church (C. 800) Mongol Empire Spain (15th and 16th centuries) France (1648-1940) Britain (1640s-1945) Renaissance Italy (C.1350-1700) United States of America (1945-?) Soviet Union (1945-1991) ------------- Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes. -- Voltaire French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778) |
Posted By: Winterhaze13
Date Posted: 18-Mar-2005 at 18:31
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SECOND CLASS Hittite Empire Phoenicia Assyria Carthage Carolingian Empire Byzantine Empire Hapsburg Empire (Austria) Ottoman Empire (1453-1800) Tartars under Tamerlane (1381-1405) Portugal (15th and 16th Centuries) Russia (1815-1917) Prussia (1740-1871) Germany (1871-1945)
------------- Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes. -- Voltaire French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778) |
Posted By: Winterhaze13
Date Posted: 18-Mar-2005 at 18:33
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Waiting in the Wings: China? India? European Union? ------------- Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes. -- Voltaire French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778) |
Posted By: Tlaloc
Date Posted: 18-Mar-2005 at 19:09
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Heh..it would be folly to waste all this time on making such a list. I doubt anybody truly has the qualifications to take into account every military, cultural, literary, scientifical, social, and economical factor from the empires of history and arrange them from some pre-defined 'greatest' to 'lowest'.
As an example..you list the Han as first class. What abou the cultural splendour of the T'ang? Or the political and educatonal splendour of the Song? Or the economic splendour of the Ming? Each empire contributes something. Be content with that. |
Posted By: white dragon
Date Posted: 18-Mar-2005 at 19:53
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i'd have to agree
have fun finding out all the powers that have existed throughtout history. ------------- Pray as if everything depended upon God and work as if everything depended upon man. -Francis Cardinal Spellman |
Posted By: oodog
Date Posted: 18-Mar-2005 at 22:22
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I am not sure about your definition of "great power" . As my understanding, it means at least a centralized regime such as Roman empire, Han empire, ancient Egypt and Alexandra's Macedonia, etc. But why there are something like Islam, Mesopotamia, or even ancient GreeceYou know, they are in fact conbination of lots of independent states and nations. If they counts, why not Christian ,Comintern or even the UN are included?
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Posted By: Sharrukin
Date Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 00:15
| Darn oodog you beat me to it. But yes, Winterhaze13 when one thinks of a "great power", one is not thinking about a region such as "Greece", "Mesopotamia", or "Phoenicia" among others, or such institutions such as "the Catholic Church" or "Islam". The Catholic Church may have had an influence on existing "Christian" empires, but it was certainly dependent on them including the Carolingian Empire. As for Islam, it would probably be more appropriate to put in its place "the Caliphate". Instead of Greece, you can just be more specific such as mentioning Sparta and Athens. I was kind of wondering what you meant by "Mesopotamia", since you did mention in the "second category", Assyria which among powers of Mesopotamian origin, ruled it quite effectively. I'm wondering why you even put Assyria and Hittite Empire in the "second category". The Assyrians were clearly second to none in their heyday, and the Babylonians and Persians which followed them owed their provincial organization from the Assyrians. The Hittites were on par with the Egyptians, militarily, and had the most humane and modern-looking sets of laws among ancient civilizations. Ironically, the Hittites had their own "list" of great powers equal to itself which included the Egyptians, Assyrians, Babylonians, and Achaeans. There are other things that could be mentioned, including the dating, but this suffices for now. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 03:48
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I cant agree on Prussia and France. How can you define all of France, Roman Empire and Islamic Empire in one category? France had nothing to affect history that much except their colonies and their cultural expansion over these colonies. The main colonial power was England, Britain... ------------- |
Posted By: cattus
Date Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 04:29
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My immediate urge was to flip the Mongol and Ottoman empires. ------------- |
Posted By: Jagatai Khan
Date Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 08:03
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The Seljuk Empire was one of the greatests in 1000-1200.Iran,Khorasan,some of Northern India,Kazakhstan were under their control. ------------- |
Posted By: Gazi
Date Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 08:12
I agree ------------- “Freedom is the recognition of necessity.”-Friedrich Engels |
Posted By: Gubook Janggoon
Date Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 14:37
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Why the heck is Prussia a second class power?! That's one of the
greatest empires the world has ever seen! It's acts had powerful
consequences in both Europe and the world.
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Posted By: rider
Date Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 14:50
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Well, maybe the second class is better, like more people in it or so. And the Catholic... Why at 800, in 800, if i am correct there was just Christianity, or Roman Catholic and Greek Catholic, then of Islam, if oyu could put it into Caliphate, then it would be obivious to put Catholic over to Spain... Then, the power and beaty of Italy ended with the Wars of Italy in 1500's. ------------- |
Posted By: Winterhaze13
Date Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 16:00
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Well, I consulted a Military Encyclopedia. And I knew this would be ambitious and I think I did a good job on it. And I welcome any challenges to that claim. ------------- Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes. -- Voltaire French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778) |
Posted By: Winterhaze13
Date Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 16:03
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France did nothing to affect history. Are you insane!! Read up on something that began in 1789 in France which later spread to the entire continent and gave us many of the great principles as Liberty and equality which shape our society today. It influenced every event after the fact, including the Russian Revolution and every revolution since then. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Revolution ------------- Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes. -- Voltaire French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778) |
Posted By: Winterhaze13
Date Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 16:03
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Explain? ------------- Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes. -- Voltaire French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778) |
Posted By: Winterhaze13
Date Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 16:04
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The power of the Church over state affairs began with Charlemagne early in the 9th century. ------------- Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes. -- Voltaire French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778) |
Posted By: Imperator Invictus
Date Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 16:15
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How about this list? Ancient (-300 BC) First Tier Powers Akkadia Assyria Hittites Egypt Zhou Achaemenids Second Tier Babylon Mittanii Jin and Qin Media Classical (300 BC - 500 AD) First Tier Macedon Qin Han Rome Xiong Nu Sassanid Mauryan Second Tier Carthage Seleucid Parthia Palmrya Bactria Medieval (500-1450) First Tier Caliphate Tang Mongol Empire Tamerlane's Second Tier Byzantium Carolingian Jin Golden Horde Il-Khanate Mameluks Yuan Ming Kok Turuk Seljuk Fatimid Song Ottomans HRE ------------- |
Posted By: Winterhaze13
Date Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 16:26
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Looks very good, you certainly cover more than I do. But, are all of these great powers? ------------- Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes. -- Voltaire French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778) |
Posted By: Imperator Invictus
Date Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 16:33
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I think the first tiers there are deservingly so, but the merit of
others are debatable (both upward or downward). Looking back at my list, I think a lot of powers
were definately left out, but there're too many to count so...
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Posted By: Winterhaze13
Date Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 16:46
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Fair enough!! Did you make this on your own and if so, will you being covering later periods like early modern and modern? ------------- Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes. -- Voltaire French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778) |
Posted By: Imperator Invictus
Date Posted: 20-Mar-2005 at 11:28
No, not really.  But if you like these classifications, you should check out the AE chart that I've been working. ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 20-Mar-2005 at 11:49
Well, these cannot be called the effects of France; but the effects of "French" to history. France was the kingdom which was the place of "French revolution", so it is not about the great power of France at those times. I know enough about the revolution. The revolution also caused the ottoman and Austuria-Hungary empires to be divided, because of the nationalist ideology that was spread all over the world, by French nation... ------------- |
Posted By: Exarchus
Date Posted: 20-Mar-2005 at 14:25
France has made a lot that affected history. Even though it's not necessary linked to its power. Even England, that you call the first colonial power (it was more Britain than England though), has an heavy French influence. In fact according to askoxford, ask the experts. There are more French words in modern English than old English words. (www.askoxford.com). http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutenglish/pr oportion?view=uk The gothic architecture was the French art (Opus Francigenum) before being renamed. The biggest English cathedrals were built by French architects, Remigius of Caen built the Lincoln Cathedral, William of Sens built the Canterbury cathedral and many others. Louis XIV built the Palace of Versailles that caused a huge French wanabee trend in all Europe. Versailles drained 25% of the state income and many countries tried to build one withoput reaching the same size or opulence (the closest is in Saint Petersbourg). France has 4 buildings that were world tallest structure. The cathedrals of Strasbourg (143m), Beauvais (153m), Rouen (153m) and the Eiffel Tower (300m). The Metric system is the Systeme International d'unité. Created by the French too. The very first digital calculator was made by Blaise Pascal who almost created the first programming language (the modern Turbo Pascal is even named after him). Not to mention the Civil Code, or Napoleonic Code, used by almost all countries of Europe exepted a few (UK, Ireland, the Scandinavians and Russia). About military power, France was the world 3rd most populated country for ages. It lost a lot of people through wars and plagues. And in internal wars, though just look at the performances of all French substates alone. Normandy, Burgundy, Aquitaine, Toulouse. If you're muslim you must know of Raymond de Saint Gilles, count of Toulouse, who took over Antioch, Tripoli and Jerusalem and of the slaughter of Al Aksa. ------------- Vae victis! |
Posted By: Thracian
Date Posted: 20-Mar-2005 at 23:04
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France has very interesting things to it then. Bulgaria was also a great power once - in medieval times it defended Europe from different hordes of barbarians. |
Posted By: Seko
Date Posted: 21-Mar-2005 at 22:33
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Well here we go again on a subjective list of goodies. Ancients:
1'st millinium:
2'nd millinium:
All are first tier!
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Posted By: Alparslan
Date Posted: 22-Mar-2005 at 09:21
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Sorry but Vikings are beyond the scope of this topics.
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Posted By: The Golden Phallanx
Date Posted: 25-Mar-2005 at 11:27
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What about Germany?? Divided into over 300 states for much of the European imperialistic age, it finally united in 1871 and went from the junkyard of Europe to the industrial superpower in 30 years!!! Militarily advanced you ask? Listen, little Prussia took out the Habsbourg empire and a few years later France in order to united little germany. They had a form of machine gun far before the rest of the world and culturally many philosophers come from germany including scientists, I can't even name them all. THe GErman nation has had much influence upon our history books there, look at how the founders of the Frankish and English kingdoms were germanic ppl, the entire post roman age was dominated by immigrating people from Germany. Anyways, I could go on for a long time of the philosophical and cultural accomplishments of Prussia and the German Empire of 1871-1918...and to think the german empire only existed for 40 years and it took on the french and british and russian empires, the three greatest powers of the day and would ahve won if it wasn't for American intrvention... They certainly deserve the first class category I'd say...
------------- We are all a result of what we have lived. Culture, attitude, perspective. For everything we do, there is a reason. There is no true evil, only the absence of proper communication. |