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Władysław Warnencz
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Topic: Muslim Father demands removal of crucifix Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 10:58 |
Muslim Father demands removal of crucifix from French Catholic hospital room
Translated from the short account carried in the French-language newspaper Le Figaro: After vehement demands, a muslim obtained the removal of a crucifix hanging from the wall of the room of a Catholic clinic in Bourgoin-Jallieu (Isère) where his daughter was being treated… Monday afternoon, at the Saint-Vincent de Paul clinic, the father of a young girl, who had just underwent scheduled preventative surgery, demanded that personnel unfasten a crucifix from his daughter’s room. "For almost 15 minutes, the father, in the presence of his wife, verbally ranted, demanding that the crucifix be taken down", reported a witness. The establishment’s personnel eventually gave in to this demand. The management of the clinic expressed their astonishment. The director of the clinic, Marie-Thérèse Besson, declared that this demand was "surprising [given that it’s] from a family that freely chose our establishment." "When people choose to be treated in our establishment… they know that they are in a Catholic maternity hospital", she added.
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Omar al Hashim
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Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 11:06 |
This is a trivial issue that doesn't deserve international press.
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Władysław Warnencz
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Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 11:17 |
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
This is a trivial issue that doesn't deserve international press. |
It is rather an intellectual matter which deserves disscusion at least.Did he have the right to demand this or the nurses shouldn't have removed the crucifix?
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Omar al Hashim
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Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 11:22 |
Dude its just some grouchy old man, what do I care?
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Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 11:46 |
The nurses chose to remove it. They could have told him to go to hell.
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gcle2003
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Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 12:30 |
I assume the daughter chose the clinic and the father objected. Otherwise it doesn't make sense.
I go with the thought that it's pretty trivial. The father shouldn't have objected, but when he did the nurses were right taking it down.
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Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 13:16 |
The guy is an a**h***. I would be more worried about my child than a crucifix.
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Kevin
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Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 13:30 |
If he freely choose the hospital then who is he to make demands.
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arch.buff
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Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 15:46 |
Hmm..bold demands. This should not be taken as representative of Muslims universal; that may sound common-sense, but one would be surprised at what some can deduce from the media. That being said I do not feel the nuns should have removed the crucifix just because of one man's complaints. Now, if the father threatened to leave then I would have considered the removal; only because the girls health takes precedence. The nuns can not be charged with giving up the faith as such, not even symbolically. They have erred on the side of peace, which, in this case I believe, can not be condemned. Just my 2 cents..
Edited by arch.buff - 09-Aug-2008 at 15:49
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Be a servant to all, that is a quality of a King.
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Al Jassas
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Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 16:11 |
In Saudi Arabia, we by default remove Qurans and islamic books, if doesn't want them, without asking, so what is the problem to make this an international news? By god if a Buddhist or a Hindu did the same nobody will take care.
Al-Jassas
Edited by Al Jassas - 09-Aug-2008 at 16:12
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Władysław Warnencz
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Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 16:36 |
Originally posted by Al Jassas
In Saudi Arabia, we by default remove Qurans and islamic books, if doesn't want them, without asking, so what is the problem to make this an international news? By god if a Buddhist or a Hindu did the same nobody will take care.
Al-Jassas |
Going to a christian hospital and demanding the crucifix to be removed is like going to an Embasy and demanding the flag to be removed.And there is a difference between books and symbols.Books "work" when you read them,while symbols when symply stand/hang.If i'm in a room and there is a Quran on the table i wouldn't read it and thus care,but an islamic flag on the wall would get on my nerves.
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Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 16:46 |
What would be an "Islamic flag"?
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Władysław Warnencz
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Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 16:50 |
Originally posted by Sparten
What would be an "Islamic flag"? |
The flag of any islamic country in the world.
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Cryptic
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Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 17:04 |
Originally posted by Al Jassas
In Saudi Arabia, we by default remove Qurans and islamic books, if doesn't want them, without asking, so what is the problem to make this an international news? |
And would any Bismallah's be taken down off the walls as well? Though this is hardly international news, the individual did make a choice to seek treatment at a private religous hospital. If one cannot stand the sight of Bismallah's or crucifixes in a religous hospital, one should go to another hospital.
Edited by Cryptic - 09-Aug-2008 at 17:57
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Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 17:08 |
Originally posted by Władysław Warnencz
Originally posted by Sparten
What would be an "Islamic flag"? |
The flag of any islamic country in the world. |
So you defeat your own argument about a crucifix in a hospital being the same as a flag in an embassy? Considering that you would see this flag in lets say the Pakistani embassy; you would get pissed, but yet at the same time you would be fine with it. Not much consistency in these two posts.
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Władysław Warnencz
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Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 17:12 |
Originally posted by es_bih
Originally posted by Władysław Warnencz
Originally posted by Sparten
What would be an "Islamic flag"? |
The flag of any islamic country in the world. |
So you defeat your own argument about a crucifix in a hospital being the same as a flag in an embassy? Considering that you would see this flag in lets say the Pakistani embassy; you would get pissed, but yet at the same time you would be fine with it. Not much consistency in these two posts.
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I would get pissed (as the muslim got with the crucifix) but i wouldn't demand it to be removed.I would bite my tongue,do my business there fast and get out.That's what the muslim should've done - bite his tongue and care for the health of his daughter,or go to another hospital.Demanding a flag in an embasy or crucifix in a christian church be removed is arrogant.
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gcle2003
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Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 19:02 |
Originally posted by Cryptic
Originally posted by Al Jassas
In Saudi Arabia, we by default remove Qurans and islamic books, if doesn't want them, without asking, so what is the problem to make this an international news? |
And would any Bismallah's be taken down off the walls as well? Though this is hardly international news, the individual did make a choice to seek treatment at a private religous hospital.
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That still seems to me to be unlikely, though it would be nice to know the facts. If the daughter (maybe discussing with the mother) made the choice it puts a rather different complexion on the father's attitude. He may have been as angry with the daughter as anything else, especially if he only found out it was a Christian facility when he arrived.
So while his behaviour may have been antediluvian, it wasn't necessarily hypocritical.
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Władysław Warnencz
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Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 19:06 |
Originally posted by gcle2003
That still seems to me to be unlikely, though it would be nice to know the facts. If the daughter (maybe discussing with the mother) made the choice it puts a rather different complexion on the father's attitude. He may have been as angry with the daughter as anything else, especially if he only found out it was a Christian facility when he arrived.
So while his behaviour may have been antediluvian, it wasn't necessarily hypocritical. |
Nomather what his feelings were he had no right to demand that.After all he has chosen to live in a christian country and thus should accept christianity.If he doesn't than he should go to the muslim world.
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gcle2003
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Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 19:22 |
We all have the right to demand anything. We don't necessarily have the right to get it. I've chosen to live in a Roman Catholic country - are you telling me I should become a Roman Catholic?
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Władysław Warnencz
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Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 19:27 |
Originally posted by gcle2003
We all have the right to demand anything. We don't necessarily have the right to get it. |
That's right and there wouldn't be a problem if the man asked them to remove it and when they said no he accepted the decision.He however started arguing and didn't accept the initial decision of the nurses.
Originally posted by gcle2003
are you telling me I should become a Roman Catholic? |
Sincerely?
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