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gcle2003
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Topic: Was it a good strategy to push Hitler eastwards? Posted: 18-Jul-2008 at 10:35 |
Bankotsu it probably is meaningful that you so far haven't got anyone to agree with you.
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Bankotsu
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Posted: 18-Jul-2008 at 10:43 |
Sarmat12?
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deadkenny
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Posted: 18-Jul-2008 at 13:42 |
Originally posted by bankotsu
....This plan would work only if Germany and the Soviet Union could be brought into contact with each other by abandoning to Germany Austria, Czechoslovakia, and the Polish Corridor. This became the aim of both the anti-Bolsheviks and the three-bloc people from the early part of 1937 to the end of 1939 (or even early 1940)....
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Surprizingly I don't actually disagree with everything in that quote. However, it is of course slanted towards a 'communist' perspective of the west. One also needs to appreciate the context. Much of what is said with respect to the views of various groups seems to imply some desire or willingness to accept massive German conquest and expansion, as long as directed 'eastward'. That was not the context within which those views were expressed. The Soviet Union was viewed as the bigger political threat. The idea was to contain the Soviet Union and prevent the spread of communism, not to facilitate Germany becoming a continental 'superpower' by the conquest of eastern Europe. It seems pathetically wrong with hindisight, but that was the view at the time. As another part of your quote mentions, the British viewed Versailles as having gone 'too far' in disarming Germany and 'crippling' them with reparations (it is in retrospect questionable as to just how 'crippling' those reparations really were). So in that context, one can see that the British view was that Germany was too weak and France had been left too dominant in western Europe and the Soviet Union was a threat in eastern Europe and thus this led to a willingness (excessive willingness in hindsight) to make concessions to Germany, in order to 'balance' France and 'contain' the Soviet Union.
As to the specific piece that I quoted above, that is simply incorrect. None of Austria, Czechoslovakia nor Danzig / the corridor, individually or in combination, provide Germany with a common border with the Soviet Union. From a practical perspective, the bulk of Polish territory was necessary for that (the Baltic States and Rumania to a lessor extent, in combination).
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"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana
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Bankotsu
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Posted: 18-Jul-2008 at 15:33 |
deadkenny here is another link if you are interested:
...Those who are familiar with the activities of the “Cliveden Set” in
the 1930s have generally felt that the appeasement policy associated
with that group was a manifestation of the period after 1934 only.
This is quite mistaken. The Milner Group, which was the reality behind
the phantom-like Cliveden Set, began their program of appeasement and
revision of the settlement as early as 1919. Why did they do this?
To answer this question...
http://www.yamaguchy.netfirms.com/7897401/quigley/anglo_12.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carroll_Quigley The most-talked-of political clique in 1938
was the "Cliveden Set," the name applied to a group of eminent Britons
who frequented Cliveden, Buckinghamshire estate of Lord & Lady Astor.
Occasional visitors to Cliveden are Prime Minister & Mrs. Neville
Chamberlain; Montagu Norman, Governor of the Bank of England;
Geoffrey Dawson,' editor of the potent London Times, which is owned by
Lady Astor's brother-in-law. Major John Jacob Astor; and Colonel & Mrs.
Charles Augustus Lindbergh...http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,771279,00.html
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gcle2003
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Posted: 18-Jul-2008 at 19:56 |
This is getting extremely boring and repetitive, so it's my last word. That's not 'another link', it's the same old source.
The 'Milner group' and all the associated stuff about the Round Table and secret plans for world domination by the Anglo-Saxons are simply rubbish even as conspiracy theories go.
The 'Cliveden set' stuff is almost as bad tabloid nonsense, certainly if it's supposed to have anything to do with government policy. The only place they were the 'most-talked-about' political clique' was in the society papers and the tabloids, since they were rich, and, like Lindbergh, celebrities. The Times was not anything like as powerful a political voice as the Daily Express and the Daily Herald (the time of the Daily Mirror was yet to come) and even the radical and then highly successful Picture Post, all of them anti-appeasement to the point of jingoism.
The Daily Mail is interesting because it DID support appeasement but - to repeat the point continually emphasised by deadkenny - it changed its policy after March 1939 and demanded that Chamberlain prepare to go to war against Germany. It wasn't however as powerful at the time as the Express and the Herald.
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Bankotsu
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Posted: 19-Jul-2008 at 05:27 |
Originally posted by gcle2003
The 'Milner group' and all the associated stuff about the Round Table and secret plans for world domination by the Anglo-Saxons are simply rubbish even as conspiracy theories go.
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What about neo-con group? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projhttp://www.amazon.com/Bushhttp://www.amazon.com/Imper
Edited by Bankotsu - 19-Jul-2008 at 05:27
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Peteratwar
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Posted: 21-Jul-2008 at 10:35 |
What about the so-called neo-con group ?
Your links seem to really relate to President Bush and his alleged ideas
BTW The Round Table properly speaking is a charitable organisation and certainly not political
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opuslola
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Posted: 16-Mar-2010 at 18:30 |
Boy, the above conversation ended weirdly? But, I have not yet read all of the posts!
Perhaps there is something I can get from it?
Oh! Here is an old quote I can speak about.
"Clearly, it should be agreed that Hitler prioritized East. Why, I can't really say... "
Since the person who made the above remark is gone, I will not mention his/her name, but the words make me want to remark.
East was three things to Hitler; 1. Vast Fields of grain! 2. Vast Fields of OIL! 3. A Vast Field of Slaves (Slavs!)
There was of course another thing, that is Hitler, like most Germans despised Russia and those stupid peasants who lived there! (note the previous statement is not my opinion but merely my opinion of the typical German opinion!) Got it?
Of course I could be wrong?
Regards,
Edited by opuslola - 16-Mar-2010 at 19:57
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opuslola
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Posted: 30-Jun-2010 at 19:14 |
I wrote above;
"There was of course another thing, that is Hitler, like most Germans despised Russia and those stupid peasants who lived there! (note the previous statement is not my opinion but merely my opinion of the typical German opinion!) Got it?
Of course I could be wrong?"
Of course it seems I forgot some words! Typical of a 63 year old brain!
I should have finished my sentence! So the above should have read;
""There was of course another thing, that is Hitler, like most Germans, despised Russia and those stupid peasants who lived there! (note the previous statement is not my opinion but merely my opinion of the typical German opinion!) Thus they deserved leadership! Got it? "
It was mostly attitude and superiority beliefs that ruled those days!
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opuslola
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Posted: 30-Jun-2010 at 19:17 |
I seem to think that gcle2003, could reply in a manner that might well curl you hair?
That is if he/she ever shows themselves here again?
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