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Uyghur-Chinese relations
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dick View Drop Down
Janissary
Janissary


Joined: 21-Mar-2005
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Posts: 23 		  Quote dick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Uyghur-Chinese relations
    Posted: 27-May-2009 at 20:08
Originally posted by Sarmat

Originally posted by dick

Please don't tell me what to do. Your Chinese history is far below my level. The disparity is prodigious. No. Chen Shui Bian wanted independence from China period. Han ren is just an ethnic group, not a nation. The Americans are also Anglo Saxon, not British. Most Taiwanese today clearly don't think they are chinese, which is zhongguoren.
 
 
LOL
So far you didn't demonstrate any knowledge at all, and you continue to impress us with more examples of wild illiteracy.
 
First of all, the whole discussion is about ethnicities not about nations. It wouldn't make sense to argue about nationhood at all. Cause  Uighurs, Mongols, Tibetians etc. belong to China by "nationhood." And all of those people can be called "zhongguo ren" with an additional remark "ethnic minorities" (shaoshu minzu).
 
Anglo-Saxons are old Germanic tribes which contributed to the formation of English ethnicity.
 
Neither can you say that Americans are "Anglo-Saxons" in ethnic sense. How about African-Americans, Native Americans, Asian Americans etc.?   Seems that it's beyond your comprehension.
 
You translate Zhongguo ren as Chinese. Good, then how would you translate Huaren?
What is it? It's not "Chinese" in your opinion? Then what it is?
 
Since your Chinese vocabularly seems to be on a very basic level,please check a list of Chinese language equivalents for an English term "Chinese."
 
Good luck !
 
 
 
 
Its quite clear that I've demonstrated far more than the pitiful things you've shown.LOL You generalize all the time and you were completely wrong about Uighur script. I never talked about nationhood, I talked about identity, please get that through. The Taiwanese don't identify themselves with the Chinese, thats a fact, 8/10 times you tell a Taiwanese in US that he is Chinese and he will correct you or get offended. Ethnicity is not important to our discussion, you claimed that people of the same ethnicity is bound to feel closer. I told you that Taiwanese felt far closer to America and Japan than they are to China, political reason or not. Americans also identified themselves differently from the British during the revolution despite being of the same ethnicity. So your argument for a "feeling" of belonging to prove greater closeness collapses. And I believe I've already proved my point.
 
 
Originally posted by Sarmat

Originally posted by dick

Please don't tell me what to do. Your Chinese history is far below my level. The disparity is prodigious. No. Chen Shui Bian wanted independence from China period. Han ren is just an ethnic group, not a nation. The Americans are also Anglo Saxon, not British. Most Taiwanese today clearly don't think they are chinese, which is zhongguoren.
 
 
And finally, what Chen Shuibian thinks about the ancestry of Taiwanese and Mainland Chinese. A quote from the English translation of his first inaugural speech.
 
 
"The people across the Taiwan Strait share the same ancestral, cultural, and historical background.
 
 
 
No offense, but you apparently know nothing about Chen Shui Bian. Do you even read Taiwanese news at all? Apparently not, because Chen Shui Bian is very famous for saying this; "Most of us see ourselves as Taiwanese, NOT Chinese." that http://claudiajean.wordpress.com/2009/05/14/bian-detention/
And who ever denied that Taiwanese have the same ancestor as the Chinese? You are still confused aren'T you? The point here is that the Taiwanese don't identify with the Mainland Chinese and consider them to be enemies. Same ancestry does not make up for the suspicion and derogatoration that exist in Taiwan for the mainland chinese. The fact of the matter is, most Taiwanese don't want to be grouped together with the other Chinese.
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Sarmat View Drop Down
Caliph
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Posts: 3113 		  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-May-2009 at 20:37

To all the nonsense posted above, I can only repeat again:

You translate Zhongguo ren as Chinese. Good, then how would you translate Huaren?
What is it? It's not "Chinese" in your opinion? Then what it is?
 
Since your Chinese vocabularly seems to be on a very basic level,please check a list of Chinese language equivalents for an English term "Chinese."
 
Good luck !
 
 
 
All the Taiwanese consider themselves Huaren, as well as Singaporeans, Hongkongnese, and other Overseas Chinese, but few of them would call themselves Zhonguoren.
 
However, both Huaren and Zhongguoren are translated in English as "Chinese."
 
I explained everything very clear, and if you have problems with understanding this simple truth it's your issue, not mine.
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dick View Drop Down
Janissary
Janissary


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Posts: 23 		  Quote dick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2009 at 02:08
To the nonsense above, I'll say it again, stop pretending you speak Chinese when you clearly don't. How many years did you even take Chinese to make an insolently arrogant comment like the one above? When have I said Huaren is not Chinese? Stop making  worthless strawman arguments and learn to grasp the point. You claimed that Uighurs are close to Turks because of a feeling. My point was simple, the the Taiwanese don't want to identify themselves with the Chinese and there are no feelings of connection. And I already proved my point.  Its not my problem that you are too slow to catch that.
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Sarmat View Drop Down
Caliph
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Posts: 3113 		  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-May-2009 at 03:03
You have problems with logic, you said that "When have I said Huaren is not Chinese?" So, it means that you know that Huaren means Chinese.
 
I'm telling you that Taiwanese have no problems with calling themselves Huaren. So, what is your opinion on that? You think it's not true or what?
 
However, most Taiwanese would never call themselves Zhongguoren. Because, although it also mean Chinese, it also presumes some political meaning i.e. someone from the Middle Kingdom i.e. from the modern PRC.
 
Unfortunately, there is only one term for both of these words in English it is CHINESE. That's why it may be hard for an English speaker to comprehend it, but the difference between Huaren and Zhongguoren has been explained by me already.
 
So, yes, Taiwanese do consider themselves Chinese in a meaning "Huaren," but not "Zhongguoren."
 
It has been repeated to you one more time. And what is your point here? You say, that Taiwanese don't consider themselves "Chinese" it's not correct because they consider themselves Chinese in a cultural sense expressed by a Chinese term "Huaren."
 
So your point that "the the Taiwanese don't want to identify themselves with the Chinese and there are no feelings of connection" is total crap.
 
Because every Taiwanese is aware of their connection to Mainland China and that they originate from China and that they have the same traditional culure and that they all are "Huaren." However, Taiwanese don't want to be identified with the state of the PRC, PRC nationhood and jurisdiction. They consider themselves as idependent nation, yet culturally and ethnically they belong to the same group with Mainland Chinese and overseas Chinese "Huaqiao." There is also a misleading stereotypical feeling of slight arrogance among Taiwanese towards the Mainlanders because they are believed to be "poor and less civilized," but that by alone doesn't create any feelings of "ethnic difference."
 
It's complitey natural given that one Chinese ethnicity was separated into different political entities through out its ancient and long history and also that we know of other examples when one ethnicity lives in different political states and even feel animosity to their keen in a different state, like for example when Dutchmen from Belgium were fighting for independence against other Duthchmen from the Netherlands in the 19th century.


Edited by Sarmat - 28-May-2009 at 05:30
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Toluy View Drop Down
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Posts: 31 		  Quote Toluy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2009 at 08:54

玩文字游戏没有任何意义。严格的讲，“中国人”=\=中华人民共和国公民。中国人的意义在不同语境中也会不同。中国人可以是华人的意思，也可以是汉族人的意思，也可以是所有56个民族所有人的意思。你可以从国籍上定义，也可以从民族上定义，但从政治目的上下定义没有任何意义。

surely, you can consider Chinese means the people who live in Republic of China, namely, Taiwan.
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Zomaan Shilogh Dyak View Drop Down
Janissary
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Posts: 18 		  Quote Zomaan Shilogh Dyak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Sep-2009 at 11:42
Other than the Tajiks in Tashkurgan, are there any other Indo-European people left in Xinjiang?
 
Are their certain areas where the local Uighurs still look "white"(couldnt think of a better description)?
 
If their are regions where their are many people with light hair and blue eyes,or even sharped featured people lacking the epicanthal fold-type eyelids, these may be the descendents of the Scythian, Kushan and Tocharian peoples of the ancent Tarim Basin.
Chaaghli Ay Chaagh Mo Korey, Yarkhun O Darband Aa Asum

Surkhum Sthor Ma Mulo, Pong Lakhee Alghaan Aa Asum, Gaah-e-Badakhshan Aa Asum
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