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Is Europe the New Dark Continent?

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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Is Europe the New Dark Continent?
    Posted: 13-Apr-2008 at 03:27
Is Europe the New Dark Continent?
By Dale Hurd
CBN News Sr. Reporter



CBN.com (CBN News) - When the Gospel went forth from Jerusalem, one of the places it took root was Europe. And Europe became a center of Christian civilization for more than 1,000 years. But there are signs that Europe's Christian era has come to an end.

A big deal was made of the fact that the first draft of the new European Union Constitution did not include a single mention of God. But most Europeans act as if the Christian God of history no longer exists. Although Europeans say they believe in some type of God, church attendance in most European countries is less than five percent.

Less than half of the British public can name any of the four New Testament Gospels. Almost a third of all Dutch no longer know why we have Christmas day.

There is a new dark continentthe land that used to be known as Christian Europe. Today, many of its cathedrals are simply large museum pieces. They are artifacts of an ancient religion, and a dead faith.

Jessica Elgood is an analyst at the British research firm, MORI. She said, "Our polling shows that large proportions of the British public still believe in God concepts of a Christian God. But very few actually practice that faith through an organized religion."

She continued, "Only three percent of the public regularly attend church. And of those three percent, half of those are blackblack Britonswho only make up about five percent of the population."

Richard Miniter lives in Brussels and is a correspondent for The London Sunday Times. He said, "When, as an American in Europe, you tell Europeans that you go to church on Sunday, they look at you like a museum piecesomething strange."

Miniter also said, "There are more practicing Muslims in France than there are baptized Catholics. Out of a nation of more than 60 million Frenchmen, less than four million are baptized Catholics. A generation ago, that just wouldn't have been so."

Near Brussels, at Christian Center, an Assemblies of God church, Belgian Pastor Paul Devos preaches to a culture that no longer believes Christian faith is the answer to anything.

Devos said, "In the United States, people would more quickly turn toward, at least Christ, in general, and Christianity, because it's still somewhat part of the culture, in general. Here in Europe, we have gone beyond that point, and people do not expect anything from religion, apart from some very abstract hope that there is something after this life. [They think] for this life, there is no hope to be found in the church."

Reverend Alan Baker is an American pastor at Christian Center. He said, "Something I hear a lot is an ancient spirit of hopelessness.'"

Baker added, "I've had people tell me, when they come off the plane getting into Belgium, it's as if there are spiritual hands around their throat. They just can't seem to breathe. It's a very heavy, heavy thing, a hopelessness."

It's not just a feeling. While most Americans say they are hopeful about the future, most Europeans in this poll admitted they are literally hopeless.

A poll conducted in 2002 found that while 61 percent of Americans had hope for the future, only 42 percent of U.K. residents had that hope. On the European continent it was even worse, with only 29 percent of the French saying they have hope for the future, and only 15 percent of Germans.

Miniter said, "The loss of faith, in Europe, is like an unseen black star that still has a tremendous gravitational pull. They don't understand why their culture is failing. They don't understand why divorce rates and suicide rates are so high. They don't understand why so few European women have more than one child, and why on most European streets, you see more dogs than children. This is the impact of the death of real Christian belief in Europe."

Yet the European media never tires of mocking America's high church attendance as "something weird," or portraying President Bush's faith as a "weapon of mass destruction."

In a typical comment, written in the Sunday Herald, the writer says President Bush is "under the influence of the crackpot TV evangelism that is so peculiar to America."

European elites are especially worried that Bush prays a lot.

A writer for Britain's The Economist magazine wrote, "To Europeans, religion is the strangest and most disturbing feature about [America]."

European elites worry that "fundamentalists" are "hijacking" the country. They find it extraordinary that three times as many Americans believe in the virgin birth as in evolution.

Elgood said, "I actually think we don't understand it [American Christianity] at all, and it's one of these gaps between our cultures, that actually leaves us scratching our heads at each other. We don't understand it. It hasn't been a part of our life here for 40 years."

When Elgood's firm asked the British to name an 'inspirational' figure, Jesus finished at the bottom.

The Mori poll found that 65 percent of Britons named Nelson Mandela, 14 percent picked Prime Minister Tony Blair, 10 percent said 'none of the above', and six percent said Britney Spears. Astonishingly, only one percent named Jesus Christ as an inspirational figure.

Religion is an especially dirty word in European politics; many European leaders are atheists.

British Prime Minister Tony Blair is not one of them, but during the Iraq war, when Blair wanted to end a televised address to the nation with the words "God Bless You," his aides talked him out of it.

Some analysts say religious differences between America and Europe are reaching the point of driving the two continents apart.

But could Europe be poised for revival?

A licensed Christian broadcaster in the U.K. at Premier Radio, Managing Director Peter Kerridge believes the demise of the church in Europe has been greatly exaggerated.

Kerridge said, "It doesn't matter how many Times headlines there are, saying the church is dead. The truth is, the church will never die."

Kerridge added, "We are seeing some decline, in some branches of the established church and huge growth in other areas of the church.

In London, the black Pentecostal church is exploding. Huge growth. And one of the hopes for the church in the UK is the re-evangelization of England by ethnic minorities. "

But in Europe, evangelization can be tough going.

Devos said, "What I always tell the congregation, our congregation, is that if we want to reach out, it has to go through personal contacts. We cannot go ringing doorbells and going from home to home trying to reach them, because they do not trust us."

Pastor Baker says the hopelessness of many Europeans can be seen in a conversation he had with a successful Belgian businessman.

Baker said, "[The businessman] was trembling, with tears in his eyes, and he said to meliterally face to faceNow pastor, if you believe the Bible is God's word, if you believe it's the message of life and hope, give me one reason, today -- give me one reason to go on living. If you can't do it, I'm taking my life right now. I can't take it anymore! Then he says, 'Don't look at me that way. There's nothing wrong with me. It's not just me, it's my wife, it's my children, it's all our friendswe have nothing to live for'it's all across my nation!"

Though the church buildings still remain, European secularists assumed that Modernism would do away with religion. But secularism has created a spiritual void, a vacuum in Europe that beckons faith to return.

There is a real worry that if Europe tires of this spiritual chaos, then the religion they will turn to is Islam. Islam is the fastest growing religion in Europe.

 
 
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  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2008 at 04:06
I wouldn't mind seeing the Religions of old come back. Think it's possible they can grow to high numbers? Or do you think that people are used to the culture of Christianity and the Abrahamic Religions that it would be far to alien for most people?
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  Quote Maharbbal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2008 at 06:44
One of the worst article read in a long time. The low fertility rate has nothing to do with religion or almost. The price of flats, the availability of pre-schools, etc. are more important.

The Americans are weird when it comes to religion. No later than yesterday, there was a guy singing in front of the local supermarket asking people to pray with him. The same way, amongst amenities listed around my flat #2 after the grocery store was the local church.

Then comes the most important issue, people getting are not going to church because it is BORING. In the US, the sociability of the community is often built around the church. In Europe, where people actually use the streets and the bars etc. there to meet people.

More importantly, no ideas come out of European churches. They repeat the same old things for ever (no condoms, give to the poor, etc.). In the US they are bold enough to have some ideas that create a debate and thus an interest for churches. Moreover, the intellectual Christian elite has pretty much died out in most countries (maybe there are still a few in Italy but that's it). I was shocked to realize that in the readings of the pope, there were so many Jewish authors. The Catholic church seems to have lost its brain power.

Regarding Belgium, CBS should read a little bit. Of course they are hopeless, that is the very core principle of Belgianness.
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  Quote Leonardo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2008 at 07:32
Yes, Europe is in the worst point of her entire history. Islam is the fastest growing religion in Europe owing to immigration. It's mandatory to stop this modern form of islamic invasion.  Muslim immigrants should be expelled or at least their number severely limited.
 
 
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  Quote Illirac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2008 at 09:38
Well what hope has left to Europeans? Every time a war comes out it's in Europe, the last two most bloodiest wars were started in here. And yes, most of the churches are now museums because as Maharbbal already wrote: it's boring... but why "The Dark Continent"?
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  Quote omshanti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2008 at 10:04
I have lived in so many countries and continents in the world, and I have to say that my impression of Europe is that it does not seem to be doing well and is in a state of rapid disintegration.
I would not say that the decline of religious belief is the reason however. It is more a symptom (an insignificant symptom in my opinion, since I am not really interested in organized/institutionalized religions) rather than a reason.
In my opinion the reasons are more likely to be financial stresses of survival , bad government, rapid loss of sense of community and continuity due to immigration, ....etc.

The living expense in Europe is becoming higher and higher every year while the average earning is not catching up, the taxes are extremely high (and becoming higher even) while it is not that difficult for people who do not work to get benefits/help making it harder to live honestly and easier if you are tricky.
The rate of immigration is unbelievably high (as high as the rate of the ethnic Han chinese migration into Tibet and the replacement of the ethnic Tibetans by them) and becoming higher and higher every year changing the demography very rapidly, while anybody who shows a concern and expresses an opinion about it is labeled ''racist'' and is silenced by the suffocatingly sensitive political correctness which dominates the atmosphere.
The rapid drop in the level of education and its system, loss of sense of unity, isolation of individuals from each other and the decline in morality combined with fast growing crime-rates,....etc all in my opinion add to the growing sense of hopelessness in Europe, and this dark sense of sorriness and weariness in the air, about the past/history of Europe and anything European, that makes people flock on and idealize non-European beliefs, causes and life-styles such as Yoga, Buddhism, Shamanism....etc more due to their trendy exoticism rather than their true essence. Europeans in Europe are in growing need of somewhere to escape, both physically and mentally, and they are not being offered (or offering themselves) anything in Europe which is their home.

These are the things I have seen and felt so far.
So from my point of view, Europe does not seem to be doing well and is becoming more and more uncomfortable for the Europeans who were its original inhabitants.

By the way this is just an observation, not a judgement.







Edited by omshanti - 13-Apr-2008 at 14:00
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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2008 at 11:29

I must say Omshanti's post leaves me speechless.

Where in the world are people supposed to be better off than in Europe?

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  Quote Illirac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2008 at 12:20
Originally posted by gcle2003

Where in the world are people supposed to be better off than in Europe?



He did not said that they are worst, but that the Europeans are in decline of what-ever
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  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2008 at 12:34
Originally posted by Paul

Miniter said, "The loss of faith, in Europe, is like an unseen black star that still has a tremendous gravitational pull. They don't understand why their culture is failing. They don't understand why divorce rates and suicide rates are so high. They don't understand why so few European women have more than one child, and why on most European streets, you see more dogs than children. This is the impact of the death of real Christian belief in Europe."

One of the most stupid things I've ever read. More dogs than children? LOL

Culture is always changing, that is not equal to failing. Some people seem to have problems realising that.



Originally posted by omshanti

..., that makes people flock on and idealize non-European beliefs and life-styles such as Yoga, Buddhism, Shamanism....

Christianity is non-European to start with, so if you think it's negative people practice yoga you must think it's a really good thing that Christianity is becoming less popular as well. Right?


Edited by Styrbiorn - 13-Apr-2008 at 12:36
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  Quote Leonardo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2008 at 12:54
Originally posted by Styrbiorn

Christianity is non-European to start with,
 
 
Its origin is outside Europe you are right, but after centuries of permanence on European soil it became an European "thing", Roman catholicism for example was the principal heir of the falling Western Roman Empire and it gave for centuries, to Western Europe at least, a particular form of civilization which for good and evil can be considered only as "European".
 
 
 
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  Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2008 at 12:58
Hmm... A non Christian Europe... How many wars have we started in the last fifty years?
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  Quote Illirac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2008 at 13:00
Originally posted by Parnell

How many wars have we started in the last fifty years?


The war in the Balkans were in Europe...a war in Europe LOL


Edited by Illirac - 13-Apr-2008 at 13:02
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  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2008 at 13:13
Originally posted by Leonardo

Originally posted by Styrbiorn

Christianity is non-European to start with,
 
 
Its origin is outside Europe you are right, but after centuries of permanence on European soil it became an European "thing", Roman catholicism for example was the principal heir of the falling Western Roman Empire and it gave for centuries, to Western Europe at least, a particular form of civilization which for good and evil can be considered only as "European".
 

Well, so if Europeans would embrace Islam and make it their own, what would be the difference? Why are people - and especially the article author, as it seems - worried about that, since it's basicly what happened when Christianity came?
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  Quote HEROI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2008 at 13:35
Originally posted by Leonardo

Yes, Europe is in the worst point of her entire history. Islam is the fastest growing religion in Europe owing to immigration. It's mandatory to stop this modern form of islamic invasion.  Muslim immigrants should be expelled or at least their number severely limited.
 
 
But Why?
Why are you so scared? why are you so phobic,i dont get it,this is incredible phobia.
 
Islamic invasion? Brink some credible numbers please,real statistics please,stop reading populist media.
Why should muslim Imigrants be expelled or their numbers severely limited?
 
This is racist.And if you dont get it,is because you are racist.
 
Is the same as for me sain that being a white Europian i want Black people expelled from Europe,or at least their number severely cut.
And i want dark people expelled aswell,which would make about half of Italy's and Spain's and mediterranian europe population,i want all Chinesee and asian looking people expelled etc.also i want pale skin people expelled aswell,such as most British and Scandinavians.
 
I also want all other practising religion expelled exept Paganism,which served us europians so well before Christianity came over,and on this one i insist more,since paganism served us so well before Christianity brought racism,discrimination,nationlaism,and all negative aspects of human life in the continent.
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  Quote HEROI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2008 at 13:38
Demographics always change with time,and ther is nothing to be phobiac for that,what matters is principles.
I dont care if my country gets full of muslims,or hindus,or blacks,as long as there is a law to protect the freedoms of everybody.


Edited by HEROI - 13-Apr-2008 at 13:39
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  Quote Illirac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2008 at 13:45
heroi he thinks of an Islamic invasion probably because many of them search work in Europe... a good example of the "Islamic invasion" is Germany 3.5 millions of them: of course, this is a small number because there are 60 millions Christians, but the growing rate of Christians is smaller, so probably in time Islam will prevail... and I as well do not get why they should be expelled... 
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  Quote HEROI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2008 at 14:05
Originally posted by omshanti

I have lived in so many countries and continents in the world, and I have to say that my impression of Europe is that it does not seem to be doing well and is in a state of rapid disintegration.
 (Europe for your information is in a state of rapid integration and unity,and most europians are resisting integration and not disintergration,look at populist media is all against a bigger,stronger Europian union,but thanks god,it is on a predestined path of unity and brotherhood of peoples and nations)
I would not say that the decline of religious belief is the reason however. It is more a symptom rather than a reason. (the only symptoms of the decline of religious beliefs are the increasing freedoms of the people of Europe,where state was capable of pushing laws that guaranty the live and let live principle for milions of unfortunate citicens singled out by the fanatic religios beliefs,such as the single mothers,the divorced,and lets not talk about Gays,Black imigrants etc)
In my opinion the reasons are more likely to be financial stresses of survival , bad government, rapid loss of sense of community due to immigration, ....etc. (financial stress of survival is not a new thing in the world,but the financial situation is now better in europe then anywhere else in the world,imigration is not so big in europe,it is mostly exagerated,find the real statistics,and the biggest number of imigrants in western europe are from europe itself,from the east,the next generation of this people will be so integrated that will be virtually the same as the indigenious,with no differences whatsoever)

The living expense in Europe is becoming higher and higher every year while the average earning is not catching up, the taxes are extremely high (and becoming higher even) while it is not that difficult for people who do not work to get benefits/help making it harder to live honestly and easier if you are tricky. (as i told you europe remains the best place in the world to live economicaly)
The rate of immigration is unbelievably high (as high as the rate of the ethnic Han chinese migration into Tibet and the replacement of the ethnic Tibetans by them) and becoming higher and higher every year changing the demography very rapidly, while anybody who shows a concern and expresses an opinion about it is labeled ''racist'' and is silenced by the suffocatingly sensitive political correctness which dominates the atmosphere.(as i said the idea that imigration is unbelivebly high is exagerated and ridicolous,there have always been imigration and demographic changes through history ,there is nothing to be phobiac about it,unless you actually are racist,what matters is that government and the state guaranty the right of everybody to live in freedom
The rapid drop in the level of education and its system, loss of sense of unity, isolation of individuals from each other and the decline in morality combined with fast growing crime-rates,....etc all in my opinion add to the growing sense of hopelessness in Europe, and this dark sense of sorriness and weariness in the air, about the past/history of Europe and anything European, that makes people flock on and idealize non-European beliefs, causes and life-styles such as Yoga, Buddhism, Shamanism....etc more due to their trendy exoticism rather than their true essence. Europeans in Europe are in growing need of somewhere to escape, both physically and mentally, and they are not being offered (or offering themselves) anything in Europe which is their home. (This all are problems that have and will face any people on the world,crime,sense of unity,morality,but europe has the best tools to deal with this,the best Police,the best Judiciary system,a democratic system,the best qualified academics,and is doing better then the rest.As for Yoga,Budhism,Shamanism etc it means that it is an open society where everybody is free to chose how to live its life acording to his individuality,it would be an issue if it was an masive conversion to this sects,but is not,and even if it was ,or if it is,whats wrong with that?as long as is an free choise of the majority?)

These are the things I have seen and felt so far.
So from my point of view, Europe does not seem to be doing well and becoming more and more uncomfortable for the Europeans who were its original inhabitants. Europians are still the inhabitants,they did not go anywhere and ceirtanly have not been overwhelmed by any other people or by any extraterrestial people.

By the way this is just an observation, not a judgement.
 
Not a very well thought observation i am afraid.



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  Quote HEROI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2008 at 14:13
Originally posted by Illirac

heroi he thinks of an Islamic invasion probably because many of them search work in Europe... a good example of the "Islamic invasion" is Germany 3.5 millions of them: of course, this is a small number because there are 60 millions Christians, but the growing rate of Christians is smaller, so probably in time Islam will prevail... and I as well do not get why they should be expelled... 
 
Ok perhaps that would be a problem for few religios fanatics,and few racist who are afraid of 3 milion people in a country of 80 milion.This 3 milion anyway in the next 50 years will be so integrated in German society that they will be invisible,even now many of them have their kids with one German parent.
 
But to talk about all of europe its ridicolous,the imigrants from other continents would barely make 2%.
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  Quote Leonardo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2008 at 14:14
Originally posted by Styrbiorn

Originally posted by Leonardo

Originally posted by Styrbiorn

Christianity is non-European to start with,
 
 
Its origin is outside Europe you are right, but after centuries of permanence on European soil it became an European "thing", Roman catholicism for example was the principal heir of the falling Western Roman Empire and it gave for centuries, to Western Europe at least, a particular form of civilization which for good and evil can be considered only as "European".
 

Well, so if Europeans would embrace Islam and make it their own, what would be the difference? Why are people - and especially the article author, as it seems - worried about that, since it's basicly what happened when Christianity came?
 
 
Really there are lots of difference ... just a sample, Christianisty was born inside Roman Empire and from the beginning it was inside the Greek-Roman Ecoumene. Islam was always something coming from outside. Christianism had centuries for adapting itself to European mores, Islam was always the historical enemy of the heirs of Roman Empire, that is  Roman Catholicim for the West and Greek-Roman Orthodoxy for the East. Islam occupied the border lands of Europe and never touched the mainland, the core of Europe, and it was always perceived as something alien by true European peoples, and so on ...
 
 
 
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  Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2008 at 14:15

I don't think its a coincidence that any parts of Europe that have had troubles in the last fifty years have had very religious communities:

Northern Ireland: Protestant and Catholic
Basque: Very Catholic
Balkans: Lots of Christian denominations and Muslims, all quite religious
 
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