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Roman Catholics have lost a place!
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arch.buff View Drop Down
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Posts: 606 		  Quote arch.buff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Roman Catholics have lost a place!
    Posted: 04-Apr-2008 at 22:36
Originally posted by gcle2003

Originally posted by arch.buff

Originally posted by Zagros

That's what the word Abrahamic is for.

Christianity by definition stems from Christ, his teachings and the gospels etc.   I am not sure how many different versions of the new testament there are but the vast majority of them are pretty much the same, no doubt. Does each sect preach from a different interpretation of the new testament?
... 
Also Luther took out entire books of the Old Testament.
 
 
The question though referred to the New Testament. The early Christians also shuffled the OT books around a lot, which is why the Christian OT (all sects, afaik)  differs from the Tanakh.
 
Ya, is not John in the NT?
 
Also to expand on the Luther additions that I was first alluding to, it was Romans 3:28(NT) whereby Luther added in the word "allein"-alone-, So whereby it reads "faith alone". This put his addition in direct conflict with the Epistle of James, more precisely James 2:24, which reads, "By works a man is justified, and not only by faith." Martin Luther responded by calling The Epistle of James an "epistle of straw" and the Pope a "papstesel"-Pope donkeys-
 
Just giving a few NT examples, either way this seems a lil off topic so I will rest here. What is the main point of this topic anyway?Confused
I sensed some small biased undertones coming from the original poster. LOL Just kiddin with ya Omar!Wink
 
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Posts: 8792 		  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Apr-2008 at 14:36
You're damn right.
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Posts: 4221 		  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Apr-2008 at 14:35

The comments here point up that "the Books" are all instrumentalities of man, not God.  The thoughts in them have been changed, manipulated, deleted and "shuffled" (I like that one) as elites that controlled that process saw it to their advantage.

Therefore, any ideology that takes as its base, or its entire fabric, a "revealed word" is to be looked at with the greatest suspicion.

 
 
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Posts: 8792 		  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Apr-2008 at 11:56
My question was rhetorical and was meant to emphasise the sects, but obviously I didn't communicate well enough :(
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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Apr-2008 at 11:47
Originally posted by arch.buff

Originally posted by Zagros

That's what the word Abrahamic is for.

Christianity by definition stems from Christ, his teachings and the gospels etc.   I am not sure how many different versions of the new testament there are but the vast majority of them are pretty much the same, no doubt. Does each sect preach from a different interpretation of the new testament?
... 
Also Luther took out entire books of the Old Testament.
 
 
The question though referred to the New Testament. The early Christians also shuffled the OT books around a lot, which is why the Christian OT (all sects, afaik)  differs from the Tanakh.


Edited by gcle2003 - 04-Apr-2008 at 11:48
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arch.buff View Drop Down
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Posts: 606 		  Quote arch.buff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2008 at 17:01
Originally posted by Zagros

That's what the word Abrahamic is for.

Christianity by definition stems from Christ, his teachings and the gospels etc.   I am not sure how many different versions of the new testament there are but the vast majority of them are pretty much the same, no doubt. Does each sect preach from a different interpretation of the new testament?
 
All sects preach from a different "interpretation" from the the NT, this is why they are different sects. A key reason for this, and this is more to the point of what you're asking, I believe, is for figures such as Martin Luther who have taken key words out of some verses. In so doing,  the passage takes on an entirely new meaning. Also have you ever seen the book that the Jehovah's Witness use, the NWT:
 
In the Beginning the Word was, and the Word was God, and the Word was a god.
(Distortion of John 1:1)
 
-Note also the small "g" after the Word. A sublety as to de-note Christ as a demi-God.
 
Also Luther took out entire books of the Old Testament.
 
Just a few examples.
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Posts: 8792 		  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 13:50
gcle said it better than I could.
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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 11:55
I agree it's a bit arbitrary. However, those three whatevers recognise different books as the final revelation, and recognise different founders. On the other hand, Catholics, roman and otherwise, Lutherans, Calvinists and so on all recognise the same books and the same founding figure. All branches of Judaism are also the same as each other in those areas, and so too are all branches of Islam.
 
So if one is clustering religious groupings hierarchically it makes sense to have Judaism, Christianity and Islam at the same level within the same higher level group (whatever one might call it, Abrahamic is fine by me), and the different groupings within each of them at a lower level or levels (as for instance, there are several groups making up the Catholic one, and several included under Calvinism). The labels stuck on each level are arbitrary, but the common usage is to use 'religion' for the level at which Judaism, Christianity, and Islam stand.
 
(PS: Unitarianism and Mormonism probably should count as different religions according to that criterion too.)
Originally posted by Zagros

Does each sect preach from a different interpretation of the new testament?
Some recognise slightly different books of the old testament but not as far as I know of the new. Of course they do interpret them differently, which is what makes them different sects.
 
 


Edited by gcle2003 - 02-Apr-2008 at 12:00
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Posts: 8792 		  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 11:49
That's what the word Abrahamic is for.

Christianity by definition stems from Christ, his teachings and the gospels etc.   I am not sure how many different versions of the new testament there are but the vast majority of them are pretty much the same, no doubt. Does each sect preach from a different interpretation of the new testament?
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Posts: 5697 		  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 05:52
If you extend that argument too far then Islam, Christianity & Judaism are all the same religion
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Posts: 8792 		  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 01:06
Not really considering they all have the same root. They (protestants et al) are all off-shoots of the same religion with different interpretations in some cases, making them sects of the same religion.
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Posts: 5697 		  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 00:44
Wow, more posts than I expected on this topic. I don't really understand why this is news because muslims have outnumbered Catholics for a long time now.


Edited by Omar al Hashim - 02-Apr-2008 at 00:44
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Posts: 2091 		  Quote Akolouthos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Apr-2008 at 19:37
Originally posted by HEROI

My point is that Catholicism is not a sect but a religion,and that Christianity is a term that includes many religions,which are united only by the name Christ,but which share particular historical,and cultural values in a particular territory.
 
 
I buy that, given the context you have established. I'm sure you will note that in a different context -- one which, I believe, is more commonly used -- Roman Catholicism would be considered a sect. Also in a more commonly used context, Christianity would be considered a religion. Still, I do take your point.
 
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Posts: 468 		  Quote HEROI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Apr-2008 at 19:28
My point is that Catholicism is not a sect but a religion,and that Christianity is a term that includes many religions,which are united only by the name Christ,but which share particular historical,and cultural values in a particular territory.
 


Edited by HEROI - 01-Apr-2008 at 19:30
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Posts: 2091 		  Quote Akolouthos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Apr-2008 at 19:18
Originally posted by HEROI

But anyway my opinion is that Christianity is not a religion is a cultural,historical term.
 
Well, actually it is both. The term may be applied and understood in different ways, depending upon the context in which it is used.
 
Since Christianity is a religion,tell me please what was the religion that Jesus brought to the world?And when did Jessus mention this religion by name,or when did he speak about a religion?
 
Well, Christ did speak about founding a Church, and He did gather together a group of followers whom He instructed thus:
 
And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age. Amen. [Matthew 28: 18-20]
 
As for the actual name "Christians", it is recorded that "the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch." [Acts 11: 26]
 
Still, I don't quite see your point.
 
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Posts: 468 		  Quote HEROI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Apr-2008 at 19:13
Better put,Christianity is term to describe a civilisation,and not a religion,Christ did not bring to the world a religion named after him.
What we can say is that the world has different Christian religions.Or better put is what Vatican sais (Faiths)
 
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Posts: 468 		  Quote HEROI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Apr-2008 at 19:08
I dont think so,i am not so sure if Catholicism is a religion or if Christianity is not a religion.
 
But anyway my opinion is that Christianity is not a religion is a cultural,historical term.
 
Since Christianity is a religion,tell me please what was the religion that Jesus brought to the world?And when did Jessus mention this religion by name,or when did he speak about a religion?
 
AS for Islam,is different,Mohamed spoke about Islam.
 
I think that the term Roman Catholicism qualifies more as a religion then the term Christianity.Christianity is nothing more then the term to describe different religions who all belive in Christ.
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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Apr-2008 at 12:18
Originally posted by HEROI

Originally posted by Zagros

Christianity is a religion; Catholicism which is exclusive of many other Christian denominations is obviously just a section of Christianity, like Orthodoxy etc... and does nmot represent Christianity as a whole and as such is not a religion.
 
Catholicism is a sect??Shocked
 
And that should be 'Roman Catholicism'. Omar happily got it right in the topic title.
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Posts: 8792 		  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Mar-2008 at 21:54
By definition, actually.
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Posts: 468 		  Quote HEROI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Mar-2008 at 21:29
Originally posted by Zagros

Christianity is a religion; Catholicism which is exclusive of many other Christian denominations is obviously just a section of Christianity, like Orthodoxy etc... and does nmot represent Christianity as a whole and as such is not a religion.
 
Catholicism is a sect??Shocked
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