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JanusRook
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Ad Maiorem Dei Gloriam
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Topic: Solution to the Balkan crisis? Posted: 19-Feb-2008 at 06:28 |
I said a map of the Serb state that includes Kosovo.This is a map of
Dushan empire.Acording to this map Serbia has a right to rule
Greece,Bullgaria,parts of Rumania and Hungary,parts of Bosnia and
Croatia,and Albania.While Macedonia today is given the right to rule
half of the world acording to this maps.
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Well you could say those nations have just as much right to claim those regions as Greece has claiming Istanbul and Asia Minor. Oh and I thought I was being dead serious. Saying it is "Dushan's Empire" is a bit downgrading the achievements of the serbian king, it isn't his fault his successors weren't as well successful as he. I mean are we to call the Carolinian Frankish Empire, "Charlemagne's Empire". No, because the historical legacy is imprinted into the psyche of the people's under his rule. Oh and this is from wiki (just waiting for the calls on bias, even tho' I'm sure the article has been taken over by pro-serb and anti-serb nationalists thus creating a more or less unbiased article.)
Perhaps the greatest of all Serbian leaders, Duan, along with his son Stefan Uro V, was one of only two true emperors of Serbia. Under his rule Serbia reached its territorial peak and, as the Serbian Empire was one of the larger states in Europe at the time.
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Sounds pretty Serbian to me....
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Economic Communist, Political Progressive, Social Conservative.
Unless otherwise noted source is wiki.
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Theodore Felix
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Posted: 19-Feb-2008 at 03:48 |
Anyway, if we are talking through opinions:
- Unite Kosovo and Albania
- Break up Bosnia (Give the Croatian part to Croatia and Serbian part to Serbia, and keep the Muslim predominant area independent).
- Population exchange between Preshevo Albanians and Mitrovica Serbs to promote homogeneity. if Bosnia wants to keep Srpska, then a population exchange could occur between Muslim Sancak and Christian RS.
This way Serbia would be appeased and Bosnia would no longer need international
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Posted: 19-Feb-2008 at 03:39 |
Originally posted by Al Jassas
Hello to you all
There are three ways for finalizing the Balkan problem:
1- For Turkey to reoccupy it excluding Greece since Turks are the only minority present in all the Balkan nations with large numbers.
2-Nuke the entire Penunsula and mover all the world's stateless people instead with defined borders
3- Reshape the map. Carve Bulgaria's southern provinces out, unite them and western Thrace with mother Turkey. Establish Greater Albania including northern Macedonia, Kosovo, Sandjak, Western Montenegro and Epirus. Split the rest of Macedonia Between Greece and Bulgaria. Join Srpska with mother Serbia and carve Voijdovina out and fuse it with Hungary. And finally, either join Bosnia with Albania to form a muslim state or unite it with Croatia in a federal state.
Al-Jassas |
Bosnia does not want to be with either, Srpska has a rising population of former emigres who are not Orthodox, Sandjak has a large slavic population that proclaims itself Bosniak. Greater Albania is not feasible as their numbers in these regions are supported by recent demographic changes and not historic reality. There are Turkish minorities throughout the Balkans however outside of Bulgaria they are not that sizeable. Croats outside of Hercegovina are emigrating to Croatia.
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pikeshot1600
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Posted: 18-Feb-2008 at 22:31 |
So, Al-Jassas's solution is.......there is no solution.
Six pages to finally understand the reality.
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Al Jassas
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Posted: 18-Feb-2008 at 20:54 |
Hello to you all
There are three ways for finalizing the Balkan problem:
1- For Turkey to reoccupy it excluding Greece since Turks are the only minority present in all the Balkan nations with large numbers.
2-Nuke the entire Penunsula and mover all the world's stateless people instead with defined borders
3- Reshape the map. Carve Bulgaria's southern provinces out, unite them and western Thrace with mother Turkey. Establish Greater Albania including northern Macedonia, Kosovo, Sandjak, Western Montenegro and Epirus. Split the rest of Macedonia Between Greece and Bulgaria. Join Srpska with mother Serbia and carve Voijdovina out and fuse it with Hungary. And finally, either join Bosnia with Albania to form a muslim state or unite it with Croatia in a federal state.
Al-Jassas
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HEROI
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Posted: 18-Feb-2008 at 10:20 |
Originally posted by JanusRook
When you find me a single map of a Serb state before 1912 that includes Kosovo,i will doubt my opinion,but ther simply does not exist one.
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The Serbia of King Stephen Dushan.......
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I am sorry man,but i am not as thick as not to know what you have brough here.
I said a map of the Serb state that includes Kosovo.This is a map of Dushan empire.Acording to this map Serbia has a right to rule Greece,Bullgaria,parts of Rumania and Hungary,parts of Bosnia and Croatia,and Albania.While Macedonia today is given the right to rule half of the world acording to this maps.
Come on man !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Be serious.
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Me pune,me perpjekje.
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HEROI
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Posted: 18-Feb-2008 at 10:16 |
Originally posted by Leonidas
i expect Heroi will be in full support to hand over some villagers, and we'll take the Vlachs as well |
Leonidas,i never spoke of that.
But imagine this scenario.
90% of Macedonia being populated by Greeks,living just across the border of Greece.
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Me pune,me perpjekje.
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HEROI
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Posted: 18-Feb-2008 at 10:14 |
Originally posted by Bulldog
HEROI how many Albanians are there outside Albania? where do they reside in the Balkans?
You say its Albanians right to live under Albanian rule, then what about minorities in Albania?
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Well,exept Greece,the borders of Albania are populated by Albanian people.I am talking about overwelming majority of a region,not just a few villages here and there.Thats the point.Imagine 90 percent of Iraq being Turks,living just across the border of Turky,would not it be fair they were ruled by Turky,or themselves??????
Why should they be ruled by an minority of 10 % ?????
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Me pune,me perpjekje.
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HEROI
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Posted: 18-Feb-2008 at 10:09 |
Originally posted by Flipper
Heroi do you think all these "GREAT" things bring peace into the Balkans? |
Of course i dont.But in the other hand i think that there is no such think as greater Albania.That i dont suport this states for sake of peace i have already mentioned in my post.
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Me pune,me perpjekje.
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Posted: 18-Feb-2008 at 06:40 |
All the best to Kosovo. And pray this European experiement works, since these statelets are only viable with Pax Europa.
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JanusRook
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Posted: 18-Feb-2008 at 05:35 |
When you find me a single map of a Serb state before 1912 that
includes Kosovo,i will doubt my opinion,but ther simply does not exist
one.
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The Serbia of King Stephen Dushan.......
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Economic Communist, Political Progressive, Social Conservative.
Unless otherwise noted source is wiki.
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Theodore Felix
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Posted: 18-Feb-2008 at 02:30 |
Bulldog, here is a map for a perspective
http://cache.eb.com/eb/image?id=6220&rendTypeId=4
Those parts that are with solid green are majority populated territories.
Edited by Theodore Felix - 18-Feb-2008 at 02:45
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Leonidas
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Posted: 18-Feb-2008 at 01:06 |
i expect Heroi will be in full support to hand over some villagers, and we'll take the Vlachs as well
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Bulldog
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Posted: 18-Feb-2008 at 00:56 |
HEROI how many Albanians are there outside Albania? where do they reside in the Balkans?
You say its Albanians right to live under Albanian rule, then what about minorities in Albania?
Edited by Bulldog - 18-Feb-2008 at 00:59
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What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine
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Flipper
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Posted: 17-Feb-2008 at 16:41 |
Heroi do you think all these "GREAT" things bring peace into the Balkans?
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HEROI
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Posted: 17-Feb-2008 at 03:19 |
Originally posted by es_bih
Originally posted by HEROI
In my opinion if there will be a future war in balkans that war will be fought over Macedonia.
In my opinion Greece does not want Macedonia to carry that name because not in a very distant future it might lay claims to the north of Greece.
The balkan solution will come only when people are separated in states were they speak the same language and were they have the same national identity.Only then will their human right be respected,not as a minority in a state who does not recognise them or dehumanise them.
There is no reason whatsoever why the Albanian minority in Macedonia who lives across the border of Albania be part of the modern state of Macedonia,and there is no back-up logic nither.
And i can understand claims of Greece and Albania as to their historical past ,because of their languages,who dont belong to a particular groop of languages,but Macedonians clearly speak Slavonic,and ancient Macedonia clearly was not a Slavonic state.
If slavo-macedonians dont like Bulgaria or Serbia they can make their own slavic state in the Balkans,and nobody is against slavic states,but they can not have historical claims as to ancient Macedonia,thats my opinion.But nither should Greeks have any claim to that nither,Macedonians clearly were not Greeks, and certainly have nothing to do with modern Greece.
I wonder what kind of people are the ones who are convincing the slavic population of Macedonia to be the decendants of Alexander the great.
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Oh yeah... A greater Albania will solve the issue of Balkan instability...right...
No, when these nationalist blokes sh-t the f--k up and stop influencing politics for their own gains will there ever be peace.
Creating supernations or carving out historical entites etc to create a new nation etc... will only lead to more blood shed not stop it. That is what has been at issue for over a century. You have Kosovo... where both groups have a historic claim per having lived there for several hundred years... now... we also have that entity in one hand, then if it changes to the other, the former will want to reclaim it, and a cyclic form of violence ensues again... instead both sides' nationalist just simply sh--t the f--k up and we move on to a more peaceable resolotion one that allows for both... like what happened under Tito... a shared entity where both groups were respected, and Albanians could practice virtual independence while Serbs could see a map with Kosovo as part of Serbia and make sure that their religious centers in Kosovo are preserved.
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Who spoke about greater Albania here???? And what do you call greater Albania?
Because logicaly speaking,a people that speak the same language and has the same national identity,should be living in a single national state,is that so nationalistic????But even thou i did not mention that and i dont suport that for the sake of peace in the balkans.
Of the terms GREATER in the Balkans,only Albanias is unfair,because the only GREATER in the balkans is the so called GREATER Albania who actually includes a overwelming majority of Albanians in historicaly Albanian lands.
There are not being carved supernationes ,and certainly there are no new nations being created there.
There never existed before 1912 a Serb state that included Kosovo.While the Kosovans Albanian identity is not being created now ,but it has existed before the creation of the Serb state.Kosovans never agreed Serb rule for one day,that is why there is no more reason to be under that rule,who produces Miloshevic's,armies that kill and rape.Kosovo can not go back to that,there is no reason why,there is no logic,there is no obligation,be it legal or moral.
When you find me a single map of a Serb state before 1912 that includes Kosovo,i will doubt my opinion,but ther simply does not exist one.The fight of Kosovans for indipendence started from the day Kosovo was given to Serbia out of the blue to serve Russian influence in the balkans.It is a well documented strugle.
But even if we leave history for a moment.Read this.
THERE IS A REGION WITH MORE THEN 90% ALBANIANS WHO DO NOT WISH TO BE RULED BY A STATE THAT HAS SISTEMATICALY DISCRIMINATED,OPRESSED THEM FOR A CENTURY,THAT JUST TEN YEARS AGO PLANED A FAILED GENOCIDE,WITH TENS OF THOUSENDS DEAD,THOUSENDS RAPED AND THOUSENDS MISSING.NOT ONLY IT HAS NOT APOLOGISED ,BUT IT CONTINUES TO THIS DAY A SISTEMATIC PROPAGANDA ON ALL LEVELS OF DIPLOMACY AND ASPECTS OF MEDIA TO MAKE ITSELF LOOK LIKE THE VICTIM,TO FORGET THE PAIN IT HAS CAUSED TO OTHERS AND TO DISINFORM AND MISSINFORM WITH CONTEMPT ABOUT ANYTHING ALBANIAN. AND WITH WHAT SANE LOGIC DO YOU OR ANYBODY EXPECT PEOPLE OF KOSOVO TO GO BACK UNDER THE RULE OF THAT STATE??THEY WONT,THAT HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS TO LONG,AND IS JUST FAIR THAT THEY GET IT.
Edited by HEROI - 17-Feb-2008 at 03:24
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Me pune,me perpjekje.
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HEROI
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Posted: 17-Feb-2008 at 02:55 |
Originally posted by Anton
Originally posted by HEROI
The balkan solution will come only when people are separated in states were they speak the same language and were they have the same national identity.Only then will their human right be respected,not as a minority in a state who does not recognise them or dehumanise them.
There is no reason whatsoever why the Albanian minority in Macedonia who lives across the border of Albania be part of the modern state of Macedonia,and there is no back-up logic nither.
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This is completely wrong statement! There are plenty of different minorities living in other European states without any conflicts and territorial claims. Balkan solution will come only when people like you change your point of view. What do you suggest? Population exchange? Plenty of people won't go from places they live for centuries. Changes of borders? Typical reason for conflicts. As an Albanian -- will you agree to get rid of territories inhabited by Greek, Vlach, Slavonic and Roma speaking population? What are you going to do with the later? Suggest them to create their own state? Where? |
Where did i sugest population exchange?????????
Your answer has nothing to do with my previous post anyway,i think you just got my post there and answered something that has no logical conection with what i have posted.
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Me pune,me perpjekje.
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Leonidas
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Posted: 16-Feb-2008 at 04:34 |
Originally posted by Anton
One more thing, Leonidas and other claimed that Greece is against monopolizing of the name and Macedonian herritage by Slav Macedonians and might share it with them. I do not know about official Greek state position but my experience with discussion with Greeks is totaly opposite. You guys(at least most I ever told to) are ready to monopolize all ancient herritage in the Balkans. |
Just the name, not the heritage part which isnt in the scope of the official disagreement. Many people on the outside looking in, mistake the grassroots Greek opinion with that of Greek national policies, they are both different enough on this subject. Though this political compromise wasn't the initial view taken and Greece could of handled this better at the beginning of FYROM's birth.
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Flipper
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Posted: 15-Feb-2008 at 12:40 |
+ people are not diplomats, they don't care about the practical solutions and obviously they are very pissed off.
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xristar
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Posted: 15-Feb-2008 at 12:33 |
I do not know about official Greek state position but my experience with discussion with Greeks is totaly opposite |
Totally correct. Greeks as a people believe they should have the monoply on the name, but the official state has made a copromise (although it had been officially declared by all greek parties that Greece shall never accept a name with the term 'Macedonia' in it, in mid '90s) and accepted the use of 'Macedonia' IN the name.
Xristar, what makes you have doubts about the lasting period of good Greco-Bulgarian relations? What could end it right now? |
I don't know. Things change.
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Defeat allows no explanation
Victory needs none.
It insults the dead when you treat life carelessly.
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