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  Quote ConradWeiser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Jews, Christians, and Muslims worship the
    Posted: 10-Oct-2007 at 05:59
I find it utterly disappointing that people are debating over the "bad side" of Christianity and the "bad side" of Islam. First of all, there is no bad religion or nor do religions have "bad sides".
 
The second point is, despite such religious disagreements between Muslims, Christians, and Jews, all three religions worship the same God. Ever hear the saying 'opposites attract'? Well, if opposites attract, then similarities detract. Jews, Christians, and Muslims are so similar that they antagonize and fear each other because each knows their own agenda and thereby believe they know the other party's agenda, whose ideas and policies they believe they share.
 
Now this is definately not specific to these three religious communities, but is experienced by all human beings in all areas. I just wanted to point out the futility of criticizing Muslims and Christians when one's own religion shares many of the qualities of the religion they choose to criticize.
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  Quote Justinian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Oct-2007 at 06:18
I have thought about that myself.  I have had some "interesting" arguments with fellow christians in regards to Islam and Judaism.  Sad really.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Oct-2007 at 06:33
Originally posted by ConradWeiser

I find it utterly disappointing that people are debating over the "bad side" of Christianity and the "bad side" of Islam. First of all, there is no bad religion or nor do religions have "bad sides".
 
The second point is, despite such religious disagreements between Muslims, Christians, and Jews, all three religions worship the same God. Ever hear the saying 'opposites attract'? Well, if opposites attract, then similarities detract. Jews, Christians, and Muslims are so similar that they antagonize and fear each other because each knows their own agenda and thereby believe they know the other party's agenda, whose ideas and policies they believe they share.
 
Now this is definately not specific to these three religious communities, but is experienced by all human beings in all areas. I just wanted to point out the futility of criticizing Muslims and Christians when one's own religion shares many of the qualities of the religion they choose to criticize.


Not entirely correct. While Jews, Christians and Muslims all do believe in the same figure, they do not exactly worship the same God. Each religion has their own idea of what that God is... these ideas are often incompatible. While the figure, os position if you will, is the same the actual God is different. It could be argued that Jews and Christians DO worship the same God, and this is true to an extent. The only difference being that Christians believe in Jesus, which is part of the trinity of God.

As for criticising, you'll find most religious members do not criticise other religions on this forum. There will, of course, be exceptions. Alot of religion bashing goes on here, it's just not normally by religious people.
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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Oct-2007 at 06:33
Yep they are all pretty much different strands of the same faith, each configured to the culture and time in which they were invented (Bronze Age Palestine, Imperial Rome, Bedouin Arabia).
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Oct-2007 at 09:09
Originally posted by ConradWeiser

I find it utterly disappointing that people are debating over the "bad side" of Christianity and the "bad side" of Islam. First of all, there is no bad religion or nor do religions have "bad sides".
 
The second point is, despite such religious disagreements between Muslims, Christians, and Jews, all three religions worship the same God. Ever hear the saying 'opposites attract'? Well, if opposites attract, then similarities detract. Jews, Christians, and Muslims are so similar that they antagonize and fear each other because each knows their own agenda and thereby believe they know the other party's agenda, whose ideas and policies they believe they share.
 
Now this is definately not specific to these three religious communities, but is experienced by all human beings in all areas. I just wanted to point out the futility of criticizing Muslims and Christians when one's own religion shares many of the qualities of the religion they choose to criticize.
 
 
 
Yes I believe that as well that there is no bad Christianity, Islam, etc... people find excuses in religion to comit horrid acts. However, many times there are individuals who are misguided, but also deeply are convicted that their actions are part, or in line with their religious perscriptions. So discussing that is what we are trying to do not bash any religion.
 
 


Edited by es_bih - 10-Oct-2007 at 09:18
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Oct-2007 at 09:14
Originally posted by Zaitsev

Originally posted by ConradWeiser

I find it utterly disappointing that people are debating over the "bad side" of Christianity and the "bad side" of Islam. First of all, there is no bad religion or nor do religions have "bad sides".
 
The second point is, despite such religious disagreements between Muslims, Christians, and Jews, all three religions worship the same God. Ever hear the saying 'opposites attract'? Well, if opposites attract, then similarities detract. Jews, Christians, and Muslims are so similar that they antagonize and fear each other because each knows their own agenda and thereby believe they know the other party's agenda, whose ideas and policies they believe they share.
 
Now this is definately not specific to these three religious communities, but is experienced by all human beings in all areas. I just wanted to point out the futility of criticizing Muslims and Christians when one's own religion shares many of the qualities of the religion they choose to criticize.


Not entirely correct. While Jews, Christians and Muslims all do believe in the same figure, they do not exactly worship the same God. Each religion has their own idea of what that God is... these ideas are often incompatible. While the figure, os position if you will, is the same the actual God is different. It could be argued that Jews and Christians DO worship the same God, and this is true to an extent. The only difference being that Christians believe in Jesus, which is part of the trinity of God.

As for criticising, you'll find most religious members do not criticise other religions on this forum. There will, of course, be exceptions. Alot of religion bashing goes on here, it's just not normally by religious people.
 
The Quran states the validity of the two previous "peoples of the book" as worshipers of God, similar to the worship of the muslims. Furthermore, it acknowledges the validity of the Torah, and the Bible as divinely inspired books. Christanity believes in God, the Trinity explains the aspects of God, but ultimately it stresses the unity of the three in onness of God, Judaism perscibes to a very close monotheism similar to Islam. What is incompatible between Islam, and Christianity/Judaism? I do not see your point, sorry, but the foremost authority of Islam acknowledges the onness of God in all three faiths, and the relation of the three in their worship of God.
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  Quote Peteratwar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Oct-2007 at 09:39
Ultimately the same God but looked at in different ways.
 
Try looking at a white light thru a prism. You get all sorts of different colours but they all come from the same source.
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Oct-2007 at 11:33

All three are basically the same religion.

However they can't be worshipping the same god, surely. Logically, for three things to be identical they must exist. Something that doesn't exist cannot by nature be identical to something else that doesn't exist. If I said I had an imaginary friend and you said you have one it would be patently absurd for us to start wondering if their non-existant features are the same.
 
 
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Oct-2007 at 12:07
Well I'm glad you found someone who'll listen to you Paul. Even if you can't see him LOL
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  Quote Leonardo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Oct-2007 at 13:33

Christians worship Jesus Christ as their God, Jews and Muslims don't worship Jesus, so they don't believe in the same God. Very simple to understand Smile

 

 

 

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  Quote Peteratwar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Oct-2007 at 15:52
[QUOTE=Leonardo]

Christians worship Jesus Christ as their God, Jews and Muslims don't worship Jesus, so they don't believe in the same God. Very simple to understand Smile

 /QUOTE]
 
As A Christian I worship God 
 


Edited by Peteratwar - 10-Oct-2007 at 15:52
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Oct-2007 at 16:05
One does not worship Jesus per se. I'm not going to struggle to explain the trinity at 2 in the morning. LOL (someone else take it Tongue)
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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Oct-2007 at 16:12
You have to worship Jesus if you are Christian. Because as a Christian you must worship God, and Jesus is a manifestation of God (if I am remembering Council of Chalcedon ok).
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  Quote Peteratwar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Oct-2007 at 16:20
Originally posted by Constantine XI

You have to worship Jesus if you are Christian. Because as a Christian you must worship God, and Jesus is a manifestation of God (if I am remembering Council of Chalcedon ok).
 
Not according to Jesus who was God's son. You worship the Father
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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Oct-2007 at 16:43
Originally posted by Peteratwar

Originally posted by Constantine XI

You have to worship Jesus if you are Christian. Because as a Christian you must worship God, and Jesus is a manifestation of God (if I am remembering Council of Chalcedon ok).
 
Not according to Jesus who was God's son. You worship the Father


But Jesus is accepted in the Christian church as part divine (which means he is a manifestation of God) and part human. Or, if you are Monophysite Christian, he is entirely divine. And that is according to the Council of Chalcedon.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Oct-2007 at 17:09
Originally posted by Leonardo

Christians worship Jesus Christ as their God, Jews and Muslims don't worship Jesus, so they don't believe in the same God. Very simple to understand Smile

 

 

 

 
As far as I understand Christians, Catholics in particular worship God in his entirety, and Jesus is one and the same as the father, and the holy spirit = God.
Jews worship that one God. Muslims worship that one God.
 
So ultimately they worship the same God, but have different interpretations, and understanding of the composition of God. In a way you could break down the trinity as three different aspects of the divine, just like there are ninety nine names of God in Islam that describe some of the infinte aspects of God. Judaism has a similar form of analogy.
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  Quote ConradWeiser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Oct-2007 at 20:15
So, according to social theory, people strive to find differences amongst others so that they have someone that they can have power over. People generally strive to create a hiearchy in this way. The people worshiping different religions look at eachother, find the differences, and use those differences to justify oppression and to disinfranchise and blame others for problems they encounter in society. So what if a program was initiated to educate people as to the similarities (and differences) of the three religions? Would there not be less antagonism between the two groups?
 
In the United States, there is a strong (disputed) separation of church and state. Public schools, a state institution, are not allowed to teach about religion. I think that is poor judgement on our part. An unbiased approach to learning about the world religions several times throughout public schooling would help enlighten the populance to understanding. I know of many pious, intelligent, kind Christians who think that the muslim god (known as Allah) is some sort of heathen god or the devil. What they don't know is that Arabic Christians also call God Allah. Yahweh and Allah are really just Jewish and Muslim terms related to the heritage of each of the religions, not the religion itself. This sort of lack of understanding is really old too, I remember 'turn back the infidel(non-believer) from the Crusades and 'heretic' in Europe.
 
On that last note, its really ironic that the Pope felt like he had to keep the Holy Land in the hands of the 'believers' when really, the Holy Land has always been in the hands of believers, whether Jew, Christian, or Muslim. (unless, of course, you count the ancient empires)


Edited by ConradWeiser - 10-Oct-2007 at 20:22
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  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Oct-2007 at 03:31

On that last note, its really ironic that the Pope felt like he had to keep the Holy Land in the hands of the 'believers' when really, the Holy Land has always been in the hands of believers, whether Jew, Christian, or Muslim. (unless, of course, you count the ancient empires)


Actually, the Popes and various other Christian leaders had no problems with the muslims in the holy land. It was only until Al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah destroyed the Church of the Holy Sepulcher that Christians felt steps needed to be taken to protect these sights from the "mohammedian heretics". Nevermind the fact that Al-Hakim was later murdered due to his horrible rule and the church was rebuilt under the auspices of the Caliphate.


But Jesus is accepted in the Christian church as part divine (which means he is a manifestation of God) and part human.


Not sure if this is a Catholic/Orthodox squabble but as I was led to understand Jesus is fully divine AND fully human at the same time. Because to lessen either role would negate his message in some way.
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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Oct-2007 at 03:52
Originally posted by Janus

But Jesus is accepted in the Christian church as part divine (which means he is a manifestation of God) and part human.


Not sure if this is a Catholic/Orthodox squabble but as I was led to understand Jesus is fully divine AND fully human at the same time. Because to lessen either role would negate his message in some way.


Yes you are right, it is a quibbling difference but back then they loved to quibble over stuff like this. Christ is accepted in both Orthodoxy and Catholicism as having two natures, one divine and the other human.

Originally posted by Janus

Actually, the Popes and various other Christian leaders had no problems with the muslims in the holy land. It was only until Al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah destroyed the Church of the Holy Sepulcher that Christians felt steps needed to be taken to protect these sights from the "mohammedian heretics". Nevermind the fact that Al-Hakim was later murdered due to his horrible rule and the church was rebuilt under the auspices of the Caliphate.


However, it should be noted that funding for the new church was donated by Byzantine Emperor Constantine IX.
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  Quote Siege Tower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Oct-2007 at 05:39
All Gods are the same, the only difference is how we look at it. there was a Chinese tale that talks about 5 blind man trying to describe an elephant, through touching it. without saying, the 5 man offered five different description of the elephant, because they touched different parts of the elephant. this is like what we are right now, the dominating religions in the world all have their own idea of God, that's because they are from different regions of the world, but none of them are right or wrong because none of them can offer us the full image of God.

Edited by Siege Tower - 11-Oct-2007 at 05:40
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