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The wall against immigration

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The wall against immigration
    Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 16:54
Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy

It is sad to see Mexicans are treated at the border, though.
They aren't treated well by their own government and law enforcement either. I honestly hope the Politics change in Mexico, and hope that they get on their own two feet. But their politics are way to corrupt from what I understand.

 
Yes, they are. It is very shameful.
 
Pinguin
 
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  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 16:23

It is sad to see Mexicans are treated at the border, though.
They aren't treated well by their own government and law enforcement either. I honestly hope the Politics change in Mexico, and hope that they get on their own two feet. But their politics are way to corrupt from what I understand.

"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." E.Abbey
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 15:28
Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy

...Americans didn't do anything to you guys, hell, half of us can't even name the countries in South America beyond Brazil. Our government may have screwed up in the past, maybe even now, but Americans don't hate South Americans.
...
 
Yes. I bet our hate is against the U.S. government politics of the past. 100 invasions and interventions that we can't forget at all, because affected the lives of all. Latin Americans don't have anything against the common people of the United States at all.
 
It is sad to see Mexicans are treated at the border, though.
 
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  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 13:57
I doubt they lost theirs skills to speak Spanish. The media networks in Spanish in the U.S. are powerfull enough to keep the people together. Besides, the Spanish international business are larger than you imagine.  Well, you have to speak Spanish to understand that, anyways.
And yet alot of Hispanics don't speak Spanish anymore. My best friend, who I consider a brother, being one of them.
Do you preffer to be called "UnitedStatian"? We won't call you American, though, because we are also Americans.
You can call me Mary if it makes you happy. Just don't use insulting words, ones you know that are insulting, and ones I've told you I dislike in the past. I respect you enough not to call you a slur, I'd appreciate the same.
Why to colaborate with people to a country that hate us, anyways?
Do you have a inferiority complex? Americans don't hate South America at all. What do you want from us, you just told me how you are big boys now and can pull up your pants on your own, but you still seem pissed at us. Americans didn't do anything to you guys, hell, half of us can't even name the countries in South America beyond Brazil. Our government may have screwed up in the past, maybe even now, but Americans don't hate South Americans.
 
So, in the long term we won't be a problem for your country anymore. Thanks God.
Were South Americans really a big problem? Below our border, it's mostly been Guadamalans(sorry if I spelled that wrong) and Mexicans. Both of which don't seem to be developing their countries' all that well.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 13:24
Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy

Yes. In 2050 1 in 4 Americans will be Latino, anyways. They will have some political muscle then. They will ask someone to pay the bill.
Ofcourse, race is what it's all about with you. "Latinoes" by then will be integrated, most probably won't even be able to speak Spanish like past generations of immigrants, like my family. So what is your point? Are you saying they are self serving? Or do they like to work for whats good for the country and not themselves?
 
I doubt they lost theirs skills to speak Spanish. The media networks in Spanish in the U.S. are powerfull enough to keep the people together. Besides, the Spanish international business are larger than you imagine.  Well, you have to speak Spanish to understand that, anyways.
 
Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy

At least in parts of South America we reached a point we don't need to clean the bathroom of gringos to live a decent life.
Gringos huh? Didn't I tell you once before I find that offensive? If I said a similar word for the Hispanic community, I'd be banned.
 
Do you preffer to be called "UnitedStatian"? We won't call you American, though, because we are also Americans.
 
Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy

Let's hope Latino immigration stop soon enough...
I don't, I don't mind immigration. I just don't like the breaking  of the Law by Illegal Aliens, which I'll remind you, ISN'T JUST DONE BY HISPANICS! You seem to have a guilty conscience when ever illegals are brought up in Immigration policies of the US. In every thread on it, I try to make it clear it's not just Hispanics, obviously, I don't make it clear enough....
 
I do mind emigration. We don't need people to spare anymore. Our growing rate has stopped still.
 
Why to colaborate with people to a country that hate us, anyways? We should redistribute our emigrants locally, and let the developed world to get full of Africans. That's the only source of immigrants that remain. I remember that Italians and Spaniards used to export theirs people in mass. Not anymore, they don't have more. The same is happening in this part of the hemisphere.
 
So, in the long term we won't be a problem for your country anymore. Thanks God.
 
Pinguin
 


Edited by pinguin - 19-Jul-2007 at 13:27
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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 12:29
Arrggh! The forum is running very slooww today.
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  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 12:28

I really am not worried about aliens working in the US. They tend to be hard workers at discount prices.
Not in construction, thats through expierence. They don't care whats going on in the enviroment around them. True, they will work at anytime, but thats because they want the green backs. I find that they are more dangerous to work with since they tend to be in a rush, and they don't always do things properly. One of my bosses was almost killed by a 2x4 falling off a roof. Instead, they managed to kill his very expensive German made Level...

My issue is that American companies have shifted jobs wholesale to other countries at the cost of losing American jobs
It's corperate America who I blame for this mess. They look for the cheap laber while filling their pockets with multi-million dollar Xmas bonuses.
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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 12:19
Originally posted by Maharbbal


Seko there are better ways to prevent people from employing illegals: enforcing the law that makes people liable to the firms they employ in the case these employ illegals.

 
I really am not worried about aliens working in the US. They tend to be hard workers at discount prices. Once they pay into the tax base the better for all. My issue is that American companies have shifted jobs wholesale to other countries at the cost of losing American jobs. Surely it is done so as to remain internationally competitive. Viable and productive sales are a necessity. I just wonder if the UAW and Big Three can make the local workforces competitive again. I hope so. Otherwise I can still hear a big sucking sound.
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  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 12:15
Then immigration would stopIf coming in your millions in a place ain't worth it no more they'll stop coming. I mean immigrants not only respond to a force pushing them out of Mexico but also to a pull one. The day there is a good way to fill construction jobs legally, illegal migrants won't have a reason to come in no more.
The only reason they'd stop ios because a citizen and illegal will be a blurred term, and immigration won't be a problem. Everything else would be shot to hell though.
If migrants don't pay their taxes because they are illegal, it won't help the schools will it?
While many do, I'm willing to bet a hell of alot more don't. There's no reason to believe they do, especially when they don't have to. There's no way of telling how many do.
If non-US citizens are kept out of scholarships, they'll stay in the streets. If illegal aliens are banned from bringing their kids in the country you are growing the future generation of thugs in the streets of Mesoamerica.
Or we can enforce our set laws and kick'em all out. It worked in the past for a year or so when the issue was brought up, then we got lazy again. If we stop doing it in bursts, we might actually see better results! Or hell, may not have had this problem now!
2) Share the costs with the migrants themselves and put yourself in charge again of your own destiny.
So spend money on people who don't belong here in the first place when there are hundreds of problems that citizens are facing without immigration?
What about my co-worker who used to have his own Roofing Company but got beat out by others who used Illegals? He has a Daughter who he was struggling to keep her in College for her future. He basicly lived day by day. Worked as a Framer during the day, and a Night shift as a Chef right after that. His truck kept breaking down, but he needed it to scrape up extra money during the Winter for plowing. His parents came here from Italy legally to live out the American dream, so that he can live too. My Grandparents did the same, weren't that well off in Italy so moved to the US.
We even have a guest worker program that allows over 400,000 in a year, but even then most over stay their visa and can't be tracked down. So we have to punish the businesses themselves.
Yes. In 2050 1 in 4 Americans will be Latino, anyways. They will have some political muscle then. They will ask someone to pay the bill.
Ofcourse, race is what it's all about with you. "Latinoes" by then will be integrated, most probably won't even be able to speak Spanish like past generations of immigrants, like my family. So what is your point? Are you saying they are self serving? Or do they like to work for whats good for the country and not themselves?
I just hope Mexico develops more to stop wasting its people in a country that doesn't deserve it.
As does most of the US. Problem is Mexico makes billions offf of Illegals coming into the US.

At least in parts of South America we reached a point we don't need to clean the bathroom of gringos to live a decent life.
Gringos huh? Didn't I tell you once before I find that offensive? If I said a similar word for the Hispanic community, I'd be banned.
Let's hope Latino immigration stop soon enough...
I don't, I don't mind immigration. I just don't like the breaking  of the Law by Illegal Aliens, which I'll remind you, ISN'T JUST DONE BY HISPANICS! You seem to have a guilty conscience when ever illegals are brought up in Immigration policies of the US. In every thread on it, I try to make it clear it's not just Hispanics, obviously, I don't make it clear enough....
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  Quote Beylerbeyi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 12:15
Im more for helping people in their own countries, rather than have them flock around the world looking for work. The Western World cant support the worlds poverty forever. Some just need to take some responsibility for their own countries.
 
The West has plundered the rest of the world for centuries. Under British rule real pro-capita income of India was the same for centuries. All the profits went to Britain. The same for Africa, and other parts of Asia. In Americas and Australia, the natives have not even survived Western plunder.
 
Today the West (actually, the North) is still sucking the Third World dry through unjust loan repayments, IMF, WTO, EU, NAFTA policies and even military invasions which force their markets open for Western capital.
 
Western capital can go to your country and take the profits back to the West. However, when as a member of the labour force, you try to move to the West, you are a problem. You are an alien, illegal, with no human rights. You are sub-human, you are the Jew of the 21st century.
 
Today the Third World pays 1 billion USD every single day to the rich West. A vast transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich, in the form of interest of the debts taken by corrupt Western-puppet dictators in the past. The debts themselves can never get paid, and everybody knows it. They are the way to suck the Third World dry. 
 
And you dare to say that you are supporting the Third World.
 
I think you are right about one thing, though. The Third World countries should do something for their people. Luckily some people are working. Today BBC reports 4 US troops killed by roadside bomb.
 
Just get your military bases in 130+ countries and your WTO and IMF and stick them up wherever you like, and the Third World will be just fine.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 11:56
Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy

At the risk of hurting future generations of Americans though. Besides, who wants to clean up that mess, our border would look like a disaster after a month...
 
Yes. In 2050 1 in 4 Americans will be Latino, anyways. They will have some political muscle then. They will ask someone to pay the bill.
 
I just hope Mexico develops more to stop wasting its people in a country that doesn't deserve it. At least in parts of South America we reached a point we don't need to clean the bathroom of gringos to live a decent life. Let's hope Latino immigration stop soon enough...
 
It will be better for us.
 
Pinguin
 
 
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  Quote Maharbbal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 11:54
We have a immigration system so we know who is coming in, and to keep track of new citizens. If we just open our border and allow the millions that want to come in without a problem, then what?
Then immigration would stopIf coming in your millions in a place ain't worth it no more they'll stop coming. I mean immigrants not only respond to a force pushing them out of Mexico but also to a pull one. The day there is a good way to fill construction jobs legally, illegal migrants won't have a reason to come in no more.

Our schools alone are having a problem with the student body being so large, and there are alot of children in them with parents who are Illegal. We can't even handle the Illegals who are in gangs, which number way up in the thousands. Imagine a more free immigration policy.
If migrants don't pay their taxes because they are illegal, it won't help the schools will it? If non-US citizens are kept out of scholarships, they'll stay in the streets. If illegal aliens are banned from bringing their kids in the country you are growing the future generation of thugs in the streets of Mesoamerica.

A country makes laws to grant freedoms and oppertunities for it's own people. We don't have laws set here ment for Mexicans, Polish, Chinese, or whoever else. A country and government are setup to support it's own people, not the rest of the world.
That is precisely what we are talking about. American have two options: 1) Spend a lot of money on a useless system feeding crime or 2) Share the costs with the migrants themselves and put yourself in charge again of your own destiny.
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  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 11:51
At the risk of hurting future generations of Americans though. Besides, who wants to clean up that mess, our border would look like a disaster after a month...
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 11:46
Originally posted by think

Originally posted by Sparten

Have a border security forces, armed with rifles and MG's. That will deter many more people than the "wall". You can also put all those landmines to use.


Armed yes, but Landmines. No.
 
Why not? Killing Mexicans you achieve the goal of preventing to enter. Don't you?
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  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 11:02
When will people see that a 'hard' migration policy has never worked?
When all people are on equal ground. So far, I've heard alot of stories in construction where businesses fall threw for being honest.
We have a immigration system so we know who is coming in, and to keep track of new citizens. If we just open our border and allow the millions that want to come in without a problem, then what? Our schools alone are having a problem with the student body being so large, and there are alot of children in them with parents who are Illegal. We can't even handle the Illegals who are in gangs, which number way up in the thousands. Imagine a more free immigration policy.
A country makes laws to grant freedoms and oppertunities for it's own people. We don't have laws set here ment for Mexicans, Polish, Chinese, or whoever else. A country and government are setup to support it's own people, not the rest of the world.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 10:48
Originally posted by think

Only because their soft on that issue.  If they put the pressure on then things would change.

The Netherlands for example have expelled 22.000 illegals durning the past three years, often ripping up families in the process or sending people back to war torn areas. And as we are speaking people are probably drowning in the Atlantic or Mediterrenean trying to immigrate. Not exactly what I call soft.

When will people see that a 'hard' migration policy has never worked?
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  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 10:11
The best wall to be made is to Punish those who hire them and give them homes here. Large fines, take their property away and sell it with the profits going to our Education and medical system, and take away or suspend their ability to own their own business for 5-10 years. It's those who take Illegals in that are to blame. If you don't clean up after yourself, then unwanted critters will keep entering your home, our Government needs to clean up.
So build a wall, but a wall that prevents Businesses and Home owners from Harboring Illegals. Then these Illegals can't say it's racism and only Hispanics are targetted, because there isn't a wall, and there isn't racial profiling, it's making sure the Business owner has his workers backgrounds checked out, and I'm sure there could be a good and efficient way made up.
 
With that though, I believe ICE agents should always be on the look out and actually doing the job they are supposed to, and border patrols need to continuly be stepped up along with top technology.
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 09:53
Originally posted by Sparten

You don't need military style minefields. Just a smattering and here and there with a big sign saying  "danger minefield", in Spanish. How many are going to attempt tp risk life and limb to call the Yanks bluff.

 
"Danger Radioactive" along with a newspaper story/scandal exposing the use nuclear waste as part of the fence construction should do the trick.
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  Quote Maharbbal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 09:50
Sparten, if it is a joke put a smily. Hundreds are already dying in the desert. If it is not a joke it is plain cruel and anyhow totally unuseful. They'd find a way through  believe me (remember that hundreds of Africans sail to the Canaries on draft boats always about to sink typically with little water and food hoping they won't get lost. The US would have to put a fence all the way from Texas to Florida on all the beaches of the Mexico Golf. The only other option is death penalty for illegal immigrants
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  Quote Dan Carkner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 09:40
Originally posted by Sparten

You don't need military style minefields. Just a smattering and here and there with a big sign saying  "danger minefield", in Spanish. How many are going to attempt tp risk life and limb to call the Yanks bluff.



Probably a lot, considering how many already risk being shot or having their legs broken by vengeful border guards.


I find it funny that people in this thread consider it would be to the US's advantage to move all manufacturing out of the country.  You advocate developing the economy of other countries, but the dismantling of your own!
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