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Parallel Universes?

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  Quote Penelope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Parallel Universes?
    Posted: 10-Jul-2007 at 22:51

If these multi-verses were to exist, i wonder how many "levels" of heirarchy would accompany them.

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  Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jul-2007 at 00:35
Too many to count, Penelope. Theoretically the levels would be without end. We are used to thinking in the major time/space concepts like height, depth and width for that is what we can see and know about. Yet if we analyze those dimensions they come in many levels of hierarchy.

"That tree over there is tall" Okay, how tall and as compared to what? We do think in dimensions to survive and use them in their levels of hierarchy. The more educated we become the more we can make use of our surroundings through our innate hierarchal skills.

If, for example, we were to say, everybody lives in their own universe, then getting to know another is multi-verse type of thing to do. How many types of person are they? We sometimes see a bit of everybody including ourselves inside another. Telling it like that is putting the problem in a subjective rather than objective way, yet makes another division in the way we view things.
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  Quote Scorpius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jul-2007 at 02:36
Originally posted by elenos

Well, theres something I didnt know, about hyperspace being outside of this universe and part of another. That would assume how one universe would have sympathic laws towards the other. That would logically suggest another dimension for the same universe for the odds of a similar universe happening with laws anywhere near our own would be impossible to calculate.

 
Those guys have creative minds :) They come up with different types of
engines such as:
 
FTL Engine ( Battle Star Galactica) = Faster Than Light , this approach lacks the explanation for the Einstein's mass problem.
 
Warp Drive (Star Trek ) = This engine creates a kind of buble around your ship that enables it to travel in hyper space ( another universe, dimension) while maintaining the ship interact with his current environment, dimension. Not as fast as hyper space drive, but has the advantage of staying in contact with their point of referance (radars, guns, etc..)
 
Hyper Space Drive = Another dimension/space/universe with completely different laws of Physics.
 
Star Gates = Worm holes/ bending of space, etc..
 
Back to the reality, we are still trying to figure out the most efficient way to get over with the Earth's gravitional force by using rocket powered propelling :)
 
Originally posted by elenos

 Very true to say there are hidden dimensions we dont know about. They could apply in one part of the universe but not in another. Our solar system is near the edge of a very uninteresting part of the galaxy and nowhere near where the real action takes place. You are a sci-fi fan? Welcome fellow traveler as we cross the threshold of new horizons!
 
It is amazing out there, everything, just like a perfect poem.
 
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  Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jul-2007 at 03:46

     
 click to open

We take a flight beyond material sense
Delve into mysteries, and then soaring pierce
The flaming limits of the universe,
Search heaven and stars; find out what's acted there,
Then search ourselves with new grounds for hope and fear.



Edited by elenos - 11-Jul-2007 at 03:48
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  Quote Penelope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2007 at 00:49
Originally posted by elenos

Too many to count, Penelope. Theoretically the levels would be without end. We are used to thinking in the major time/space concepts like height, depth and width for that is what we can see and know about. Yet if we analyze those dimensions they come in many levels of hierarchy.

"That tree over there is tall" Okay, how tall and as compared to what? We do think in dimensions to survive and use them in their levels of hierarchy. The more educated we become the more we can make use of our surroundings through our innate hierarchal skills.

If, for example, we were to say, everybody lives in their own universe, then getting to know another is multi-verse type of thing to do. How many types of person are they? We sometimes see a bit of everybody including ourselves inside another. Telling it like that is putting the problem in a subjective rather than objective way, yet makes another division in the way we view things.
 
True, and fair enough. Especially since natural levels of mulitverse hierarchy allow great progressive diversity.
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  Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2007 at 01:36
Originally posted by Penelope

True, and fair enough. Especially since natural levels of mulitverse hierarchy allow great progressive diversity.


Love the way you put that. You are a state of the art thinker! Have we solved the mystery of life right here on this board? You saw it here first, folks. Being multiverse reproduces to allow for parallel universal expansion through its own inherent diversity. MV/PU=ED2.  (the state of multiverse divided by paralell universes equals the movement of expansionary diversity squared)
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  Quote Scorpius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2007 at 01:52
I say one universe is enough :)
I beleive in minimum energy principle; do not need another universe, it exites me.
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  Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2007 at 02:22
What is minimum energy principal, Scorpius? Do you mean we as life forms can only live in one universe? Quite true, perhaps we as self-realized beings, life becoming aware of itself, are unique to this galaxy. However I would feel sad if there were no life elsewhere to benefit from knowing and loving life.
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  Quote Scorpius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2007 at 11:48
All living/non living things crawls itself to an energy level as minimum as possible. You excite an atom to a higher level energy, give it a time, it returns to an energy level lowest as possible again. It is quantum physics.
 
:)
 
More universes means more energy, higher levels.. that is my imaginary point.
 
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  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2007 at 20:21
A thread I started on the String theory says, if it's true, that there'd definitly be Parallel Universes. You can find the thread here, and I hope you guys watch it. I'm alittle disappointed that the thread wasn't seen by others. http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18929
You can click on the part about Parallel universes, but I'd suggest watching the whole thing so that you understand it better.
"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." E.Abbey
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  Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2007 at 21:51

Sorry, youve lost me, Scorpius. Im not doubting you, but am into Einstein theory where E is energy. E=MC2. All is relative to particles (of time/space mass) being minimum and others being maximum and staying that way in their output levels of energy. My position may be debatable in the light of modern quantum physics, but Im influenced by the fact that light speed and the level of universal expansion is a constant. Any major change in the energy factors involved would cause adverse effects.

 I go along with quantum theory in that I can see how every universal particle may well contain part of the whole; after all, all is relative! I can see how there may be an AC/DC effect, a rapid reversal of energies within the atomic particles therefore giving them immortality in their rates of energy. The thing is about our imagination are the limits when there is more to than can be ever imagined out there!

Sorry your thread was overlooked, SearchAndDestroy, but thats the way it goes. This thread is different in not being tied to conventional wisdom and hopefully opens another window to life the universe(s) and all. So far we have included some of our intuitive links between living and non-living not yet explored. If we dont go beyond the boundaries when we have a chance we will never get beyond them.

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  Quote Scorpius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2007 at 23:14
Originally posted by elenos

Sorry, youve lost me, Scorpius. Im not doubting you, but am into Einstein theory where E is energy. E=MC2. All is relative to particles (of time/space mass) being minimum and others being maximum and staying that way in their output levels of energy. My position may be debatable in the light of modern quantum physics, but Im influenced by the fact that light speed and the level of universal expansion is a constant. Any major change in the energy factors involved would cause adverse effects.

 
No, please doubt me, that is what makes a discussion productive ;)
Let's forget about minimum energy principle; and turn our attention somewhere else...
 
With E=mc2 , what we assume ? We assume we are accelerating to the speed of light, and so our mass increases.
 
What if we are already travelling at the speed of light or what if there are beings other than us where in their frame, they already has the speed of light for their frame. Now we have no acceleration problem, so no mass problem.
 
All Physical Theories has zillion assumptions underneath. In earth you are bound to newtonian physics, particle level, quantum physics, who knows what else ..
 
Everything is possible, we may have multiple universes, a single one, or a universe inside of an another one, nobody knows for sure..
 
 
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  Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jul-2007 at 04:51

Hang on a minute, I looked up minimum energy principle and lets not forget about it! I didnt understand the explanation you gave, but on the whole you are talking about the second law of thermodynamics where nothing can output more energy than it inputs. Everything has a potential energy, but will not realize that latent energy unless set in motion. Yes, I do understand that argument. When applied to the universe some say it means where the energy to run this universe comes from.

The answer is we dont know for we are not starting from the right premises in the first place. If you were a creationist then sure, they have many convoluted theories about how space/time does all sorts of biblical things. As for me I may not know where I come from or where Im going to, but Im here right now. The universe is at work and surrounds me. As long as the universe does its thing and I do mine alls right with the world!

Perhaps because of my self-assurance I allow myself the luxury of wondering outside the square, how I can relate to the whole rather than part? The assumption of minimum energy principle is valid but mainly relates to the laws of an enclosed system like here on earth.  If living on the moon our experience would not be the same. It is a different system subject to different gravitational laws.

We live in a universe that is traveling outwards at light speed. This constant universal speed is inbuilt into all things that are solid otherwise if they stopped would fly apart as if they never existed.

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  Quote Scorpius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jul-2007 at 10:50
Originally posted by elenos

Hang on a minute, I looked up minimum energy principle and lets not forget about it! I didnt understand the explanation you gave, but on the whole you are talking about the second law of thermodynamics where nothing can output more energy than it inputs. Everything has a potential energy, but will not realize that latent energy unless set in motion. Yes, I do understand that argument. When applied to the universe some say it means where the energy to run this universe comes from.

 
That is something else and called "conservation of energy" in principle. In nature it occours all the time, potential to kinetic, kinetic to potential.
 
I was talking about the quantum level, anyway, I found something (since you are interested) that explains it in an simple way in Wikipedia :)
Here it is, I underlined the part that correspond to the "minimum energy principle" I was talking about before...
 
Here it is:
 

In quantum mechanics an excited state of a system (such as an atom, molecule or nucleus) is any quantum state of the system that has a higher energy than the ground state (that is, more energy than the absolute minimum). The temperature of a group of particles is indicative of the level of excitation.

The lifetime (see resonance) of a system in an excited state is usually short: spontaneous or induced emission of a quantum of energy (such as a photon or a phonon) usually occurs shortly after the system is promoted to the excited state, returning the system to a state with lower energy (a less excited state or the ground state).

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  Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jul-2007 at 21:07
Thanks Scorpius but I read that very article and others as a refresher before I answered. There is a definite paradox here. You can use one set of information and use the total opposite and get real time results equally true.
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  Quote Scorpius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2007 at 01:53
The teories have limits, I guess that is what you meant ? For instance you cannot explain a quantum level behaviour with newtonian physics, or the other way around.
 
Anyway thanks for creative ideas flying around :)
 
PS: I just found that NASA is working on a primitive prototype of my imaginary plasma powered engines. Darnn!! I should have kept my mouth shut ;)
 
 
But I have to say, they are on the wrong track.


Edited by Scorpius - 17-Jul-2007 at 01:53
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  Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2007 at 03:42

Theories may have their limits; however we dont have to guess on many points of use because they already are used, however the underlying principals behind them are so complex they appear to us in different ways. The applications in which they are used remain apart and so are taken as being separate.

As a rough example the different applications for what we know depends upon whether we are using a closed system or open system. Like in your invention (take me to the stars!) the source of power is designed to fly among the stars, but not for flying through traffic here on earth but can have other uses. As for my comment on such an invention I thought the major research over recent years was for cold fusion rather hot.  

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  Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2007 at 21:28
No more answers - a dead thread? Just when I was hoping to further investigate the universe and find those places that no man or woman has ever been before! All are welcome to contribute. Here we promise to discuss rather than put down the opinions of others, nobody is an expert. It is enough to write what you feel about time and space rather than worry about the logic of it all. We live in an impossible universe and as far as I know we are an impossible creation of it!
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  Quote Penelope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2007 at 01:06

Some people think that the existence of these universes would imply that we should dramatically alter our behaviors. I disagree. Everything conceivable occurs somewhere, even if its an exponentially small fraction of all parallel universes.

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  Quote elenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2007 at 03:26
Originally posted by Penelope

Some people think that the existence of these universes would imply that we should dramatically alter our behaviors. I disagree. Everything conceivable occurs somewhere, even if its an exponentially small fraction of all parallel universes.


I agree with you and have always thought of parallel universes as an exciting possibility and existing on many levels. As you say everything conceivable occurs somewhere. If other dimensions are proven and many already are, the new knowledge should not alter our behavior. Its all a matter of tidying up whats already known for those who seek knowledge. On a physical level if there were parallel universes could we draw clean energy from them instead of the present ways?

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